Ask a FORMER Baptist Pastor

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From my blog, March 11, 2008:

**Anti-Catholic Falsehoods **

It’s never an easy thing admitting one has believed a lie. The anger comes not so much from the lie, but that one has been gullible enough to buy into it. I suppose it is anger directed more toward oneself. But being lied to creates a vigilance that determines that I will not be fooled a second time. Many times the people passing on the lie do not know or mean to do so, they are just too lazy to check out the truth of it. So, I suppose some of it is anger at one’s self for lazy research.
The first lie I discovered concerned infant baptism. ’Infant baptism’, I was told, ‘was a creation that was absent in the early centuries of the Church.’ In fact, the Church had been baptizing infants from the beginning. A simple reading of Early Church history reveals this. Nobody questioned it until the sixteenth century.
The second lie was discovering many of the ‘heroic’ tales of Protestants of the past were ‘embellished‘, if not outright fabricated. I used to treasure “Foxes Martyrs of the World”. Many Christians would never dare question its authenticity any more than they would question the Bible itself. Discovering that John Foxe was safely abroad, writing his propaganda in Strasbourg, Frankfurt and Basle, during Mary Tudor’s reign was an eye-opener for me. He falsified and twisted the course of events. It disturbed me to learn that the Great Awakening was invented, not by historians but by eighteenth-century evangelicals who were skillful and enthusiastic religious promoters. The Great Awakening was a planned, not a spontaneous event. The embellishment of events by ‘trusted’ historians was devastating.
The third lie was the accusation that Catholics believe they can attain our own salvation without Christ, through works. I have never met a Catholic in their right mind who believes they are ‘working their way to Heaven.’ The Catholic Church teaches that one must have Faith to be saved. Without that, no one is saved. Grace alone (not faith alone) lets us recognize Christ and we are made capable through grace to respond to Him, that is, meet Him through faith, and then to cooperate with Him: bring forth fruit and glorify Him. Faith without works is dead, being alone.Works without faith are of no value. Faith without works is dead. Faith, joined with works, demonstrates that Grace is present. Faith precedes works, but faith without works is not the kind that saves. So, faith saves, but faith without works is not faith at all. It’s a neglected gift that gets us nowhere.
There are many other falsehoods too numerous to mention. But for me, these three stand out the most.
 
I wish that I could think of something to ask to keep this going. 🙂
From my blog, March 11, 2008:

**Anti-Catholic Falsehoods **

It’s never an easy thing admitting one has believed a lie. The anger comes not so much from the lie, but that one has been gullible enough to buy into it. I suppose it is anger directed more toward oneself. But being lied to creates a vigilance that determines that I will not be fooled a second time. Many times the people passing on the lie do not know or mean to do so, they are just too lazy to check out the truth of it. So, I suppose some of it is anger at one’s self for lazy research.
The first lie I discovered concerned infant baptism. ’Infant baptism’, I was told, ‘was a creation that was absent in the early centuries of the Church.’ In fact, the Church had been baptizing infants from the beginning. A simple reading of Early Church history reveals this. Nobody questioned it until the sixteenth century.
The second lie was discovering many of the ‘heroic’ tales of Protestants of the past were ‘embellished‘, if not outright fabricated. I used to treasure “Foxes Martyrs of the World”. Many Christians would never dare question its authenticity any more than they would question the Bible itself. Discovering that John Foxe was safely abroad, writing his propaganda in Strasbourg, Frankfurt and Basle, during Mary Tudor’s reign was an eye-opener for me. He falsified and twisted the course of events. It disturbed me to learn that the Great Awakening was invented, not by historians but by eighteenth-century evangelicals who were skillful and enthusiastic religious promoters. The Great Awakening was a planned, not a spontaneous event. The embellishment of events by ‘trusted’ historians was devastating.
The third lie was the accusation that Catholics believe they can attain our own salvation without Christ, through works. I have never met a Catholic in their right mind who believes they are ‘working their way to Heaven.’ The Catholic Church teaches that one must have Faith to be saved. Without that, no one is saved. Grace alone (not faith alone) lets us recognize Christ and we are made capable through grace to respond to Him, that is, meet Him through faith, and then to cooperate with Him: bring forth fruit and glorify Him. Faith without works is dead, being alone.Works without faith are of no value. Faith without works is dead. Faith, joined with works, demonstrates that Grace is present. Faith precedes works, but faith without works is not the kind that saves. So, faith saves, but faith without works is not faith at all. It’s a neglected gift that gets us nowhere.
There are many other falsehoods too numerous to mention. But for me, these three stand out the most.
 
As a former Baptist Pastor how did you feel about the Eucharist when you first began studying it and after you began partaking of it?

And what are your thoughts on John 6. 😉
 
I got some baptist friends of mine to go to mass with me. I’m going to be going to their church some time soon (I know my faith well, so I’m not planning on becoming baptist or anything) They said it’s about two hours and they have a potluck afterward. Is that normal? What else should I expect?
 
Here’s a couple of questions for ya…
Reflecting on your former Baptist experience and comparing it to your experience of Catholicism:
  • Would you say that the average Baptist is more or less active in their faith?
  • In general, did you experience more or less unity of faith in Baptists compared to Catholics?
 
As a former Baptist Pastor how did you feel about the Eucharist when you first began studying it and after you began partaking of it?

And what are your thoughts on John 6. 😉
Communion in Baptist Churches is simply a meaningless ceremony. I couldn’t wait to abandon it. My study of the Eucharist began with my study of the Covenants in Scripture. When I discovered Jesus used the actual Greek word Eucharisto, it rocked my world. I wasn’t QUITE ready in those days for the Catholic view, but I could no longer accept the Baptist ‘symbolic’ view any longer. It led me to the Episcopal Church, which for a Baptist was very eye-opening, but it wasn’t enough.
When the Eucharist is removed from a Christian’s life, they are forever trying to find something to replace it with. My heart was restless until I could recieve the Body and Blood of Christ.
You can read my whole journey in my blog below:🙂
 
I’d like to know about the hurdles you had to go through knowing that life would never be the same for you after conversion. Did you lose friends? Income? Family?

I have to say that I think former clergy/ministers from other faiths are the bravest people and are to be immitated in their love for Christ. These are people who DID drop everything for Christ. Absolute jewels in the Crown of our Lord.
 
Here’s a couple of questions for ya…
Reflecting on your former Baptist experience and comparing it to your experience of Catholicism:
  • Would you say that the average Baptist is more or less active in their faith?
  • In general, did you experience more or less unity of faith in Baptists compared to Catholics?
Baptists are visibly active in ‘doing church’. They are not very good at applying it. I used to stand in the pulpit and say: “Can I touch your Christianity? What does it look like when your Christianity is ‘happening’”? They are great at ‘knowledge’, but not the ‘how to’ of it. They build great buildings and have a fabulous praise and worship group, but go into a trance if you want to talk about how to help the homeless in your area. Not saying ALL Baptists are like this, but that is my experience.
As to the second question…open your phone book and count the number Baptist churches in your area.
That’s your answer. 😃
 
I’d like to know about the hurdles you had to go through knowing that life would never be the same for you after conversion. Did you lose friends? Income? Family?

I have to say that I think former clergy/ministers from other faiths are the bravest people and are to be immitated in their love for Christ. These are people who DID drop everything for Christ. Absolute jewels in the Crown of our Lord.
Fortunetly my wife and I were not foolish enough to depend on my income as a pastor for support. THAT would have been a disaster. Family? Nobody in my family was Baptist, so no. Friends? Yep. I don’t exist in their eyes. I’m the invisible man. They revealed very quickly the kind of ‘christians’ they were.
 
I got some baptist friends of mine to go to mass with me. I’m going to be going to their church some time soon (I know my faith well, so I’m not planning on becoming baptist or anything) They said it’s about two hours and they have a potluck afterward. Is that normal? What else should I expect?
Baptists eat all the time, so yeah. 😃
Loved them overweight preachers: “Now that your soul has been fed, it’s time to feed yer body!!”😃
Anyway, I would expect something in the preachers sermon on ‘faith and works’.
 
I wish that I could think of something to ask to keep this going. 🙂
I actually started it as a kind of ‘spoof thread’ in response to the ‘Ask a Baptist Pastor’ thread. I honestly didn’t expect the responses I got. :eek:😉
 
Baptists eat all the time, so yeah. 😃
Loved them overweight preachers: “Now that your soul has been fed, it’s time to feed yer body!!”😃
Anyway, I would expect something in the preachers sermon on ‘faith and works’.
What about a liturgy? I mean I know they don’t like fixed liturgies, but do they have “reading” from the bible, or one verse? Do they jump around in the bible and have you read it with them?
 
Here’s a couple of questions for ya…
Reflecting on your former Baptist experience and comparing it to your experience of Catholicism:
  • Would you say that the average Baptist is more or less active in their faith?
  • In general, did you experience more or less unity of faith in Baptists compared to Catholics?
My wife was baptized in a small Baptist church in Kentucky.

She started going to Church and every week they would put forth the need to accept Christ and be saved and they’d make an altar call.

Eventually she felt moved to accept that call and a few weeks later was baptized.

Initially she was all fired up, but then she kept coming back and kept hearing how they needed to accept Christ, and she watched others make (sometimes repeat) their altar calls, and she think…OK…I’ve done that…now what…

After a few months she came to the realization that at least in that church there was no next…that was it…and eventually fell back into her pre-“saved” life.

I certainly hope this was an atypical experience.

Chuck
 
Thanks for starting this thread. It will be useful to compare your answers to questions answered by Steve the Baptist Pastor (if he ever gets around to actually answering one - not looking good so far).
 
Not to be uncharitable, but I’ve gotten the feeling when I’ve gone to protestant church services like it’s children playing dress-up, pretending to be adults (especially their symbolically reenacting the Lord’s supper). Is that just me and my being accustomed to Catholic ritual or does that resonate with you? (Some Catholic masses too, sadly, come close to evoking this feeling.)
 
I know Baptists look at Baptism as only symbolic. Now that I think of it, it’s kind of ironic considering their name. If I’m not mistaken, it’s a personal act of faith - accepting Jesus as their saviour - that is the determining factor of when they are “saved”. My understanding is also that anyone who dies prior to making this profession of faith will go to hell – except for babies.

So now for my question. At what age, after infancy, would this chance of condemnation begin to take effect. Is there a certain age? In other words, say a 10 year old dies and he had not yet asked our Lord to be his Saviour, do they believe he will go to hell?
Or is it something other than age that determines whether or not one is condemned prior to making the profession of faith? If so, what?
 
Hello JustaServant,

I’ve really enjoyed all the insight in your posts over the past few years.

My question is: Why do so many Baptists presume to know so much about Catholic teaching when they really don’t?

My guess is that they are hearing lies about the Catholic Church in their Baptist churches.

What do you think?
 
My wife was baptized in a small Baptist church in Kentucky.

She started going to Church and every week they would put forth the need to accept Christ and be saved and they’d make an altar call.

Eventually she felt moved to accept that call and a few weeks later was baptized.

Initially she was all fired up, but then she kept coming back and kept hearing how they needed to accept Christ, and she watched others make (sometimes repeat) their altar calls, and she think…OK…I’ve done that…now what…

After a few months she came to the realization that at least in that church there was no next…that was it…and eventually fell back into her pre-“saved” life.

I certainly hope this was an atypical experience.

Chuck
There was an episode of The Journey Home one night that featured a convert from a “megachurch” (it may have actually been Willow Creek-Rick Warren’s church, but I’m not sure), and he said (can’t remember his name, sorry) that Sunday mornings were for “seekers”, “believers” were supposed to “get fed” on Sunday nights or during the week in small groups. I didn’t know Baptist churches were like that (it seems that the Baptist preachers on the radio-Charles Stanley, David Jeremiah, are always talking about how Christians or “the saved” are supposed to behave).

In Christ,

Ellen
 
Hello JustaServant,

I’ve really enjoyed all the insight in your posts over the past few years.

My question is: Why do so many Baptists presume to know so much about Catholic teaching when they really don’t?

My guess is that they are hearing lies about the Catholic Church in their Baptist churches.

What do you think?
I think a lot of it comes from the former Catholics that didn’t know the faith, and misrepresent what we believe to the pastors and fellow congregants, who then repeat it.

In Christ,

Ellen
 
From my blog, March 11, 2008:

**Anti-Catholic Falsehoods **

It’s never an easy thing admitting one has believed a lie. The anger comes not so much from the lie, but that one has been gullible enough to buy into it. I suppose it is anger directed more toward oneself. But being lied to creates a vigilance that determines that I will not be fooled a second time. Many times the people passing on the lie do not know or mean to do so, they are just too lazy to check out the truth of it. So, I suppose some of it is anger at one’s self for lazy research.
The first lie I discovered concerned infant baptism. ’Infant baptism’, I was told, ‘was a creation that was absent in the early centuries of the Church.’ In fact, the Church had been baptizing infants from the beginning. A simple reading of Early Church history reveals this. Nobody questioned it until the sixteenth century.
The second lie was discovering many of the ‘heroic’ tales of Protestants of the past were ‘embellished‘, if not outright fabricated. I used to treasure “Foxes Martyrs of the World”. Many Christians would never dare question its authenticity any more than they would question the Bible itself. Discovering that John Foxe was safely abroad, writing his propaganda in Strasbourg, Frankfurt and Basle, during Mary Tudor’s reign was an eye-opener for me. He falsified and twisted the course of events. It disturbed me to learn that the Great Awakening was invented, not by historians but by eighteenth-century evangelicals who were skillful and enthusiastic religious promoters. The Great Awakening was a planned, not a spontaneous event. The embellishment of events by ‘trusted’ historians was devastating.
The third lie was the accusation that Catholics believe they can attain our own salvation without Christ, through works. I have never met a Catholic in their right mind who believes they are ‘working their way to Heaven.’ The Catholic Church teaches that one must have Faith to be saved. Without that, no one is saved. Grace alone (not faith alone) lets us recognize Christ and we are made capable through grace to respond to Him, that is, meet Him through faith, and then to cooperate with Him: bring forth fruit and glorify Him. Faith without works is dead, being alone.Works without faith are of no value. Faith without works is dead. Faith, joined with works, demonstrates that Grace is present. Faith precedes works, but faith without works is not the kind that saves. So, faith saves, but faith without works is not faith at all. It’s a neglected gift that gets us nowhere.
There are many other falsehoods too numerous to mention. But for me, these three stand out the most.
What did your congregation think of your conversion?

Viva Cristo Rey!!

Catholic Deacon
 
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