Ask a Former Mormon

[mellestad]

Here is a lecture that I found informative, from a ‘normal’ ex-Mormon. I say normal because he was not an advanced apologist or anything, but he did go through his mission, graduated from BYU, and he did truly believe.

It is from the atheistic perspective (so don’t watch it if some audience quips will make your head pop off), but that doesn’t come up much, the lecture is strictly about his Mormonism.

blip.tv/file/4758643

 

[Stavros]

Latter-day Saints do not believe that proxy ordinances force a person to become Mormon. Instead, we believe that they offer the deceased the opportunity to accept or reject the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ if they did not have a real opportunity to do so in this life. So, if your uncle or Hitler or whomever was baptized by proxy, this does not necessarily mean that they had their sins washed away. What it means is that they have an opportunity, in Spirit Prison, to accept or reject that baptism. Now, we also do proxy confirmation, sealing, etc. under the hope that they did accept it and repented, however in our theology, there is always a choice, and doing this does not force someone to become LDS, in our belief.

Okay, so say Hitler accepts that baptism. And Hitler accepts that sealing. Now, let’s compare that to my father. He was sealed to my mom, and got his temple recommend renewed on his hospice bed. He was buried in his temple garments, and has an image of Moroni on his headstone. But he smoked until he was too weak to hold up his cigarette. He openly, and flagrantly violated the Word of Wisdom during his entire adult life. Technically, he obtained his recommend fraudulently because he continued to smoke. My brother was baptized at 8 and sealed to my parents, as was I, in 1988. He committed suicide.

According to Mormon doctrine, if Hitler accepts his baptism and ordinances in Spirit Prison, he can go to the Celestial Kingdom. However, my brother and father, being baptized LDS in life, have no opportunity to have those sins washed away in death, and being given the fullness of the gospel while they were here on earth, they are condemned to the Telestial or Terrestrial Kingdom. According to the Mormon doctrine, I have committed an act worth of excommunication by being baptized in the Catholic church, and my fate will be similar to my brother and father.

According to Catholic doctrine, as far as I can tell, while my brother’s sin was grievous, it was done while not in a proper state of mind and he may not be held culpable. And while my father was never Catholic, he did die living his best life that he could in the way that he thought that Christ wanted him to live his life. I can pray for their holy souls in Purgatory, which I do on a daily basis. And in both cases, Christ’s mercy can most definitely apply even though they were not Catholics.

 

[Stavros]

I would like to know if someone in the Mormon church has performed a baptism by proxy using my name or anyone in my family. I am opposed to this, but I want to be informed. How do LSD members get names of people to do this ceremony (other than a public forum on the internet )? Is it true that the LSD church thinks it is their duty to obtain a genealogy of everyone in the whole world?

Thank you!

LDS baptisms by proxy in the temple are only applied to deceased people. As for where they get the names, my mother has been active in the “Extraction” program for years. She is sent census records, church rosters, family bibles, and other records of marriage, birth and death. She then takes those names and enters them into the large LDS database, available free online:
familysearch.org/

Once names are in the database, they are sent to temples so that active and worthy members can perform the temple ordinances by proxy, including baptism and laying on of hands. Temple ordinance records are not public.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

Okay, so say Hitler accepts that baptism. And Hitler accepts that sealing. Now, let’s compare that to my father. He was sealed to my mom, and got his temple recommend renewed on his hospice bed. He was buried in his temple garments, and has an image of Moroni on his headstone. But he smoked until he was too weak to hold up his cigarette. He openly, and flagrantly violated the Word of Wisdom during his entire adult life. Technically, he obtained his recommend fraudulently because he continued to smoke. My brother was baptized at 8 and sealed to my parents, as was I, in 1988. He committed suicide.

According to Mormon doctrine, if Hitler accepts his baptism and ordinances in Spirit Prison, he can go to the Celestial Kingdom. However, my brother and father, being baptized LDS in life, have no opportunity to have those sins washed away in death, and being given the fullness of the gospel while they were here on earth, they are condemned to the Telestial or Terrestrial Kingdom. According to the Mormon doctrine, I have committed an act worth of excommunication by being baptized in the Catholic church, and my fate will be similar to my brother and father.

According to Catholic doctrine, as far as I can tell, while my brother’s sin was grievous, it was done while not in a proper state of mind and he may not be held culpable. And while my father was never Catholic, he did die living his best life that he could in the way that he thought that Christ wanted him to live his life. I can pray for their holy souls in Purgatory, which I do on a daily basis. And in both cases, Christ’s mercy can most definitely apply even though they were not Catholics.

I am not in a position to judge your brother and father. As far as suicide, the Church teaches that it is wrong to take one’s life, however the person may not be responsible for their acts, and we therefore leave it up to God to judge, in His infinite wisdom, mercy, and justice.

What Latter-day Saint doctrine teaches is that all people will have the change to accept or reject the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If a person did not have the chance to hear the Gospel in this life, they will hear it in the next. The atonement of Jesus Christ applies both in this life and the next, and those in the next life are no better off than those who heard the Gospel in this life, so I do not see how Hitler would be in a better position than your family members in the hypothetical scenario. Latter-day Saints also teach that repentance is always possible for all in the after-life, as we should never tire of approaching God. Finally, Latter-day Saints do the work for all, and leave the judging up to God, believing that the atonement of Jesus Christ can overcome.