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rinnie
Guest
Hi Pub, thanks for your answer, What is our major differences in marriage? Your friend Rin!
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Taestron
Guest
Thank-you that gave me the information that was lacking in my previous discussions. But if I may ask a follow up question, what is the rationale for such an extreme view of âno creed but the Bible.â Is is that these ânotionalâ thoughts are viewed as useless? Or is it something more in that they somehow didnât agree with the theology? In the church I grew up in, we never once professed any creed, but when I was first exposed to them I thought, âOf course I believe that, why wouldnât I.â So I guess my question boils down to is that why is (was) it that Friends do not profess the creeds if there is no essential disagreement with them? It seems to me that these Friends could have saved themselves a large amount of heartache if they were willing to profess them.
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coachkfan1
Guest
Do you believe in hell?
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Publisher
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âHe is altogether lovelyââŚThe Song of Songs speaks of beauty.
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Publisher
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Friends believe it is God that joins two people together in covenant relationship with Him and one another. Friends do not use minsters typically to âofficiateâ at our Meeting for Worship for MarriageâŚthat spot is reserved for the two to be married. All in attendence sign the certificate of marriage that they witnessed the marriage. Since most states require somone other than the two joined in marriage to file the state marriage license, the Clerk of the Meeting usually has that responsibility.Hi Pub, thanks for your answer, What is our major differences in marriage? Your friend Rin!
A petition to put oneâs marriage under the care of the meeting is submitted. In the next Meeting for Worship for Business the petition is read and a Committe for Marriage is formed to consel the couple over a period of time decided upon during the Meeting for Worship. If the Committee recomends that the couple should be allowed to marry under the care of the meeting, it is discussed and the consensus of the meeting is given. If approval is given, the couple sets the date for the Meeting for Worship for Marriage.
At the appointed time we meet to witness the marriage of the two Friends. They sit in front where the elders or clerks usally sit and we âwait upon the Lordâ. Anyone moved to provide vocal ministry does so. When the couple feel it is time, they stand before the Meeting and sayâŚ"âIn the presence of God and before these our families and friends, I take thee (brideâs/groomâs/partnerâs name) to be my wife/husband/partner, promising with Divine assistance to be unto thee a loving and faithful husband/wife/partner so long as we both shall live.â
Once each has spoken, they sit down until they decide the Meeting for Worship has concluded. Everyone shakes hands, and anyone who wants to signs the marriage certificate.
Wedding reception follows.
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Publisher
Guest
Not that they are uselessâŚand itâs not âno creed but the Bibleâ either. Itâs just that when discussing spiritual things with someone who holds the Bible as an infallible rule and guide, Friends tend to point to the Bible when asked points of theology not found explicitly withing the Bibleâs pages.
Friends donât recite creeds, not because they my not be true, but because by reciting the creed as a group, there may be some present that does not fully agree with the creed, and by making it a formal declaration by the group, it may not be truthful to assume that when saying âWe believeâŚâ or âI believeâŚâ is actually understood and believed exactly by all present.
Friends believe God is present and speaks to each heart directly, revealing Himself to each person through their own undertanding, comprehension and ability. Friends do not beleive in religious coercion, but recognize that God speaks and reveals Himself thru flawed humanityâŚand our perceptions and words to express this revelation are finite. What is know âexperimentallyââŚâexperientiallyâ is seen as being more honest and truthful, than requiring a âstatement of faithâ that one may not be able to fully affirm. As we meet for worship, we seek God together, we seek to understand His will collectively as well as individually and âcheckâ what we believe with one anotherâs experience with God. Where we disagree on our concepts and beliefs, we offer grace to the person we disagree withâŚperhaps it is we who are in error and not the person we disagree with. Faith and belief is never âput to the voteââŚ
In our Meetings for Business we never vote on issuesâŚwe discuss and discuss and discuss and pray and pray and meditate and discuss and study and search and listen to each other as each of us shares âthat of Godâ and possesses free access to the Light Within as much as the Friend next to us. Majority isnât always right, the minority voice may be the prophetic one in our midst, so we seek to come to consensus. The responsibility of the Clerk is to discern the âSense of the Meetingâ and state it back over and over until the Meeting agrees collectively that âYes, you have stated the Sense of the Meeting correctlyâ. Sometimes it takes months and years for us to reach a âsense of the meetingâ that can agreed upon by all present or those who disagreed withdraw their disagreement as the difference they hold isnât great enough to refuse consensus any longer.
Each Friend not only must understand and âownâ what they believe, but they must guard each otherâs sense of Truth by not âcoercingâ someone to state something that person cannot full embraceâŚitâs not that we disagree with the creeds, we just refuse to require the Friend sitting next to us speak what he does not find truthful.
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Publisher
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I personally do not beleive in an âeternal hellâ. I find the Orthodox understanding more in agreement with what I understand of God and about âhellâ. I am a âhopeful universalistâ in that I believe âGod is not willing that any should perish but all come to repentance.ââŚI donât believe the will of God will be frustratedâŚif He wills itâŚâOne Dayâ it will come to pass, He is afterall Soverign and His Mercy endures forever, so why have His mercy endure forever if His mercy can not be received at some point. We each bear that of God within us. One day âevery knee will bow and every tongue confessââŚHe is about restorationâŚI canât believe He will fail at anything He undertakes and since He is not willing that any should perish but all come to repentance"âŚI am hopeful.
We all return to the PresenceâŚto the God who gave us life.
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coachkfan1
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So where do the souls of the unrepentant and apostates go until they are ready to receive Godâs mercy? Just trying to understand. Also, do our works in this life matter?
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Publisher
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Friend I donât know where any of us goâŚâwe return to the God who gave us lifeââŚwhat we do in this life is very important, not because we might âburn in eternal fireâ but because weâve been given this life, and for all I know it is the only life I have, so I need to make the best of itâŚlove as much as I canâŚcare for others as much as I am ableâŚmake my world I have NOW a better place. The âhere afterâ will take care of itself. I have no concern nor care of âwhere I wasâ before I entered mortalityâŚI donât fret about my âbefore hereâ so why fret about the âhere afterâ?
Today is the day to share love and mercy. Today is the day to be kind. Today is the day to âlift up the broken hearted.ââŚif I do those things out of the need to gain a âfire insurance policyââŚhow sincere is a life lived to only escape the âhere afterâ when the âhere nowâ is definitely a place I can effect and make better now.
I can âspeculateâ about the âhere afterâ and âspeculateâ about is glories or itâs painâŚâtake no thought of tomorrow, consider the lilies of the fieldâŚyou cannot add one day to your life by worrying about tomorrow.ââŚbut I can change todayâŚtomorrow may never comeâŚbut today is here now. If eternal life existsâŚit begins NOW.
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coachkfan1
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Well thank you for your thoughtful reply. Peace.
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rinnie
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But then what about evil? And the devil. And above all free will? Don/t you believe (although I agree its hard to imagine) that some people just donât want goodness and God in their life?
My personal feelings of free will is this, if this is no hell and we all choose God what good and is the use of free will?
Wny would God give it to us? And why would he tell us there are eternal fires?And why would he say to some I will say I do not know you?
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Publisher
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As a âhopeful universalistâ, I want to beleive that eventually those who have rejected the love and mercy of God will be like the Prodigal SonâŚwho tire of wallowing with the pigsâŚwho one day will want peace and rest for their tormented soulsâŚwho one day will want to Come Home. No one has suggested that free will wonât be involvedâŚwhat I am saying is that Jesus is to have statedâŚâIf I be lifed up, I will draw ALL MEN to myself.âBut then what about evil? And the devil. And above all free will? Don/t you believe (although I agree its hard to imagine) that some people just donât want goodness and God in their life?
My personal feelings of free will is this, if this is no hell and we all choose God what good and is the use of free will?
And why would he say to some I will say I do not know you?
His Presence is an Eternal All Consuming Fire. I donât know the âwhyâ about a lot of thingsâŚI only know some of the things I read that suggest âHis Mercy endures foreverââŚâThough I ascend to the highest heaven, You are thereâŚif I make my bed in the lowest hellâŚYou are there. Where can I go to escape your Presence?â
I am hopeful that a loving and caring Father can see past all my shortcomingsâŚand what God wants, will one day be accomplishedâŚâThy will be done on earth, as it is in heavenââŚ
I am hopeful in His mercyâŚI am hopeful that the Shepherd will leave the 99 and seek the 1 and bring him HomeâŚOne DayâŚwho could resist a love like that for ever?
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aragonjohn1
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rinnie
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I understand what you are saying, and it was by the way beautiful.As a âhopeful universalistâ, I want to beleive that eventually those who have rejected the love and mercy of God will be like the Prodigal SonâŚwho tire of wallowing with the pigsâŚwho one day will want peace and rest for their tormented soulsâŚwho one day will want to Come Home. No one has suggested that free will wonât be involvedâŚwhat I am saying is that Jesus is to have statedâŚâIf I be lifed up, I will draw ALL MEN to myself.â
His Presence is an Eternal All Consuming Fire. I donât know the âwhyâ about a lot of thingsâŚI only know some of the things I read that suggest âHis Mercy endures foreverââŚâThough I ascend to the highest heaven, You are thereâŚif I make my bed in the lowest hellâŚYou are there. Where can I go to escape your Presence?â
I am hopeful that a loving and caring Father can see past all my shortcomingsâŚand what God wants, will one day be accomplishedâŚâThy will be done on earth, as it is in heavenââŚ
I am hopeful in His mercyâŚI am hopeful that the Shepherd will leave the 99 and seek the 1 and bring him HomeâŚOne DayâŚwho could resist a love like that for ever?
But there is too much scripture that states the opposite.
Matt 25-41-46
Mark says they will NEVER be quenched. You must agree never is a very long time.
John 528-29 says there is INDEED the ressurrection of the damnation.
2 thes. says those who do Not obey the gospel. God did put down rules for us to follow.
But the one that unfortunately does it for me is Rev20:10 when it says they will be tormented forever and ever. God does not torment us, and this is surely not heaven.
I like you could not imagine anyone not wanting the love of God. But I also cannot imagine what is going on in this world today.
One time Father said in mass people donât like to talk about sin, and hell, They like the everybody gets in approach. But he said they should, Jesus felt it was important enough to talk about. And he did warn us.
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Publisher
Guest
Itâs the âunknownâ of the afterlife that keeps me hopeful. I know what the writers of scripture stated on the subjectâŚjust donât know for sure if they were speaking of absolutes or if their writings were âcoloredâ by their own experiences. Since the mercy of God endures forever, I would think that mercy would not be âmercyâ unless it could be extended to âsomeoneâ.
âUniversalismâ isnât a new concept in Christian thoughtâŚIf I remember correctly Tertullian or Origen espoused somewhat of a âuniversalistâ view of the depth of Godâs mercy. Eternity is outside of timeâŚso perhapsâŚwe donât know for sure as any construct of the âafterlifeâ is just thatâŚa construct, I have a difficult time conceiving with my very finite mind the Infiniteness of God, and my own finite words with their limited meanings and concepts fail to speak of the love of God and the âheight and depth and breath of His loveââŚfor all I know, it may have also failed those who wrote of the âunquenching fireââŚGodâs Presence is an âunquenching fireâ, at least so we are toldâŚâHe dwells in everlasting buringsââŚlike I saidâŚI find the Orthodox understanding a more likely concept than any Iâve really given any credence toâŚwe all return to the PresenceâŚand there is no place we can espcape His Presence, and where He is, there is alwasy hope.
I donât know for sureâŚbut Iâm 'hopeful" that this mercy that âendures foreverâ is extended to âsomeoneââŚeven those who dwell where the âworm doesnât die, and the fire is not quenchedââŚHis mercy endures.
We wonât know until weâre there, so I will trust in Him who knows us best, and loves us most to what is right and justâŚeven if His Justice is incomprehensible to meâŚit will still be right and just.
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Vouthon
Guest
My dear brother/sister Publisher 
Peace be with you!
I would like to ask about Quaker teachings on the âInner Lightâ. What do you define this as?
Also, have you ever read up on Catholic/Orthodox mysticism? Do you think there are similarities between this and Friend mysticism (ie contemplation and silence in meeting)?
I ask because George Fox is considered to be a âChristian mysticâ by most scholars and his writings are quoted in most of my books listing famous âmysticsâ.
Much love!
PS I LOVE the Religious Society of Friends
Peace be with you!
I would like to ask about Quaker teachings on the âInner Lightâ. What do you define this as?
Also, have you ever read up on Catholic/Orthodox mysticism? Do you think there are similarities between this and Friend mysticism (ie contemplation and silence in meeting)?
I ask because George Fox is considered to be a âChristian mysticâ by most scholars and his writings are quoted in most of my books listing famous âmysticsâ.
Much love!
PS I LOVE the Religious Society of Friends
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Publisher
Guest
Friend Vouthon, The Light Within is the very Presence of Christ. It is âthat of Godâ that indwells each of usâŚour True Teacher, True Guide, Inner Word, Light of the World, Seed.My dear brother/sister Publisher
Peace be with you!
I would like to ask about Quaker teachings on the âInner Lightâ. What do you define this as?
Also, have you ever read up on Catholic/Orthodox mysticism? Do you think there are similarities between this and Friend mysticism (ie contemplation and silence in meeting)?
I ask because George Fox is considered to be a âChristian mysticâ by most scholars and his writings are quoted in most of my books listing famous âmysticsâ.
Much love!
PS I LOVE the Religious Society of Friends
Each of us has the capacitity to Hear this Voice and experience His Presence, with no other human mediation.
I would point you to a small volume by Thomas R. Kelly, âA Testament of Devotionâ, it is by far my favorite book next to the Bible in the whole world. I have a copy of it with me where ever I travel. It is perhaps, in my opinion, one of he best books that explains Quaker spirituality.
Itâx first chapter is called âThe Light WithinââŚthe book itself is no more than 100 pages, but no book outside of the Bible has touched me so deeplyâŚit was insturmental in my âconvincementâ.
Peace to you as well friend.
PS, and George Fox is/was definitely a mystic.
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Vouthon
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JustaServant
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Hi Publisher.
Is there any kind of âliturgyâ, no matter how slight, in your services?
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Isaiah45_9
Guest
Greetings Publisher,
While perusing my youngestâs Cub Scoutâs handbook, I noticed a Religious Emblem award from the Society of Friends:
Would you mind explaining the significance of the symbol? (My guess would be that it refers to the Light, but would love to hear its full significance)
Thanks
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