As I previously stated, my theology does not hinge on whether or not the events of the New Testament literally took place. I am not denouncing the apostles as fabricators nor am I affirming the fact that the events of Gospels happened exactly as they were recorded. What is important to me are the allegorical and symbolic messages associated with these events-fact or fiction, literal or exaggerated
But if they did happen as recorded in the Bible, that means that Jesus Christ literally proclaimed himself to be God. If that’s true, wouldn’t that be far, far more important than any interpreted allegory or symbolism?
Thank you for the reply. Since you believe in number two (the gnostic explanation), which says that creation is imperfect because it was created by an imperfect being, how is non-human creation (for instance, the earth, including animals and plant life, etc.) imperfect?
If you read post #38, you will see that I have apologized if I sounded flippant in my initial response.
Thank you for clearing this up. Yes, please do excuse the “poking with stick”. You are new and different.
Animals are prone to suffering, pain, death. Different species of animals and plants have gone extinct or destroyed ecosystems throughout time. Carnivores must slaughter other creatures to survive and herbivores must eat plants that have grown from the earth, etc.
Again, we would interpret this from an allegorical angle; meaning that when Jesus proclaimed himself to be God, he meant that he had transcended to a form of consciousness that was completely detached from the world and therefore divine.
Does that mean that once you, personally, become detached from the world, you could claim to be God?
The material world is totally without value. Although I prefer the term ‘transcend’ to ‘escape.’ Also, it depends what you mean by ‘any cost.’ Obviously suicide or excessive drug use would not be an acceptable way to remove yourself from the material world.
True…and yet these ecosystems still work exceedingly well. Everything that a human being needs to survive and thrive is available on the earth, such as sunlight, water, the exact oxygenation of the air for what we need to breathe. Also every sort of food that we need to sustain life, including shelter and clothing are here.
So, basically what you’re saying, is that you completely ignore the context and words of the scripture, and make up your own meaning…?
See that’s where you loose me. If this material universe, our bodies, this earth, everything contained therein are without value… Why is suicide not the most perfect thing one can do? The ultimate act of transcending this pathetic reality which is no reality at all and making the ultimate choice of rejecting this illusion and moving on to what is infinitely better? You can only say that suicide is not an option if there is something to be gained here, but what is to be gained here except distraction from perfect transcendence?
If you are completely detached from the sensory world and completely, 100% absorbed in God consciousness then the distinction between yourself and God disappears. You have surrendered your existence entirely to the Lord in that case. That being said, I have never heard of another individual outside of Jesus who has been able to achieve this spiritual level yet still be able to function in the material world. That is what makes Jesus a unique enigma and is why Gnostics venerate him.
I know very little about modern-day Christian Gnosticism. Do Christian Gnostic’s claim to possess an elevated knowledge i.e. a higher truth known only to a select few, as was the case long ago?
But he never once claims to have done this, and the only texts which claim he did weren’t written until several centuries after his death.
Symbolic stories i.e. the actual events never occurred?
Why is it so absurd to take that passage to mean that he has achieved a level of consciousness in which there is no distinction between himself and the Father?
Who are you referring to when you say - the powers that be? The Catholic Church at this time was also being oppressed by the Roman Empire.