Ask a Gnostic Anything

[GaryTaylor]

Gnosis of Thomas:
I was wondering how does one evaluate one’s spiritual experiences and intuitions in Gnosticism?

Thats what I want to know from you?

in order to be able to traverse the spiritual path successfully

 

[gnosisofthomas]

So you consider yourself resurrected spiritually rather than physically, its not the fullness of God I take it, so what is it, what does it mean to you? Of what significance is The Gospel of Philip? Is it the inspired word and of whom? And who decided this?

The resurrection is what liberates us from the world, and the rule of the archons. The spiritual awakening we experience through Gnosis is described as the “resurrection from the dead”. It’s symbolically enacted through the Sacrament of Baptism, whereby we are restored to our original state of being and connection to the spiritual realm. We’re no longer of the world at that point.

When I talk about the Fullness, Gnostics tend to use the Greek word “Pleroma”, which is the totality of God. It’s described in scripture as being made up of “Aeons”, emanations of God that are expressions of His qualities. We, and everything in the world, are also an emanation of God, though the world experiences a separation from the Pleroma due to the imperfection we live in. So the resurrection is what allows us to escape the imperfection of the world and return to the Pleroma, restoring the Fullness to the Aeons.

The Gospel of Philip is a Valentinian sacramental text that explains the five initiatory Sacraments: Baptism, Chrism, Eucharist, Redemption, Bride-Chamber. I consider it just as inspired as other scripture, though as I don’t recognize an official canon of scripture, no one needs to officially declare it canonically inspired. It is what it is, and it can help us understand the Sacraments and the grace they bestow upon us, but it has no more or less authority than any other book of scripture.

 

[stavros388]

Thank you for your thoughtful response. First off, The Buddha actually never denied that there was a theistic god, he just found questions about God to be irrelevant to transcending suffering in this world. I am not a Buddhist mind you, I have just done a bit of studying and a small amount of meditation practice and I find much that I admire in both Buddhist thought and practice. I also find much that I admire in Catholicism, however, exclusivist assertions of Truth make me quite uncomfortable and unlike our Gnostic friend, I do take a Ramakrisna approach to Truth in that there are many paths that lead to the top of the mountain.

I am somewhat of a traditional Perennialist and believe that all the Traditional faith approaches at their esoteric core are teaching the same ultimate reality. Exoterically they differ, but the truth experienced is ultimately the same but necessarily expressed differently due to cultural, educational, and linguistic preconditions of that experience. I do believe it is essential that one be grounded in a well established tradition, whether that tradition be Catholicism, Buddhism, Hindu Vedanta, or yes, even Islam (Sufi) in order to be able to traverse the spiritual path successfully. I have little patience for every new age Oprah approved pop Guru teaching instant spiritual enlightenment that simply feeds our lazy, capitalistic, insatiable desires for instant gratification with as little work as possible. Spiritual work is the most difficult enterprise one will ever be engaged in and is not meant to just make us feel better. That is what therapy is for. Spiritual work is for warriors.

I hope you don’t mind my interjecting here, but you and I have some things in common. I came to Traditional Christianity via the Perennial Philosophy, and still hold some views not dissimilar from those you’ve presented here. My understanding of the Traditionalist (or traditional Perennialist…?) view is that, although one believes there exists a transcendent unity of religions, one must, practically speaking, belong to one traditional and authentic religion exclusively… as I just realized you already said above. So do you follow one? Or are you going to make me guess?

I am not sure how popular it is among Catholic readers, but I highly recommend “Meditations on the Tarot - A Journey Into Christian Hermeticism” for a Perennialist and Catholic perspective. Brilliant book!

 

[OmegaPoint]

Means what exactly? Is this where another opinion comes in? Or who are you referring to for this distinction aside from yourself? What makes you think you are at all successfull as you can’t “feel” it. You “know” right? What do you know exactly?

I know very little. I have experienced a few profound mystical and spiritual experiences but in and of themselves, the experiences are just that, another experience and means very little. I have learned to devalue personal “subjective experience” unless guided by some external, traditional practice that can guide and deepen these experiences. All spiritual practice must be undertaken under an experienced spiritual director, someone who has traversed the path that you seek to undertake. If I am planning a trip to the Amazon jungle, I want to take an experienced guide with me who knows the area I am planning to explore, it keeps me safe, I don’t get lost, and they can point out things to me that I would not even have known to look for.

 

[someperson555]

Thank you for your thoughtful response. First off, The Buddha actually never denied that there was a theistic god, he just found questions about God to be irrelevant to transcending suffering in this world. I am not a Buddhist mind you, I have just done a bit of studying and a small amount of meditation practice and I find much that I admire in both Buddhist thought and practice. I also find much that I admire in Catholicism, however, exclusivist assertions of Truth make me quite uncomfortable and unlike our Gnostic friend, I do take a Ramakrisna approach to Truth in that there are many paths that lead to the top of the mountain.

I am somewhat of a traditional Perennialist and believe that all the Traditional faith approaches at their esoteric core are teaching the same ultimate reality. Exoterically they differ, but the truth experienced is ultimately the same but necessarily expressed differently due to cultural, educational, and linguistic preconditions of that experience. I do believe it is essential that one be grounded in a well established tradition, whether that tradition be Catholicism, Buddhism, Hindu Vedanta, or yes, even Islam (Sufi) in order to be able to traverse the spiritual path successfully. I have little patience for every new age Oprah approved pop Guru teaching instant spiritual enlightenment that simply feeds our lazy, capitalistic, insatiable desires for instant gratification with as little work as possible. Spiritual work is the most difficult enterprise one will ever be engaged in and is not meant to just make us feel better. That is what therapy is for. Spiritual work is for warriors.

Totally agree with your last paragraph. Yes it is indeed unfortunate that these great spiritual practices of the ancients have been hijacked by the new age movement and basically become the opiate of suburban soccer moms with nothing better to do all day.

I see this same thing happening with the enneagram. I think it contains so much wisdom and insight into human psychology but unfortunately these simple minded people just use it to feel unique and special. " oh I wanna be a four therefore im a four".

 

[OmegaPoint]

I hope you don’t mind my interjecting here, but you and I have some things in common. I came to Traditional Christianity via the Perennial Philosophy, and still hold some views not dissimilar from those you’ve presented here. My understanding of the Traditionalist (or traditional Perennialist…?) view is that, although one believes there exists a transcendent unity of religions, one must, practically speaking, belong to one traditional and authentic religion exclusively… as I just realized you already said above. So do you follow one? Or are you going to make me guess?

I am not sure how popular it is among Catholic readers, but I highly recommend “Meditations on the Tarot - A Journey Into Christian Hermeticism” for a Perennialist and Catholic perspective. Brilliant book!

I do indeed follow one tradition and I was brought to it from reading “Meditations on the Tarot.” I was a bit of an anthroposphist prior to reading this work, so I imagine you can figure out which tradition I belong to now. It is the most profound spiritual book I have ever encountered. I think for the Western Mind, Catholicism is the most appropriate religion and even the Dalai Lama himself has stated as much. That is one aspect I truly appreciate about Eastern Teachers, a true teacher will usually refer the seeker back to the tradition in which he or she was raised or which is the basis for their culture. Of course they will not reject a seeker if they are truly dedicated to seeking a new path, but they will not seek to instantly convert the person to their religion like those in the West will do. I believe that Eastern Religions can be used as a basis to broaden our faith and spiritual practices, but they must be firmly grounded in our Western Tradition.
My spiritual advisor is a Dominican Monk with two PHD’s from the Pontifical University and I am truly blessed to have such an erudite, well read, open minded, and spiritually advanced instructor to guide me.

Maybe you and I should start our own Perrenialist Thread I would love to discuss books and spiritual practices with you.

 

[GaryTaylor]

The resurrection is what liberates us from the world, and the rule of the archons. The spiritual awakening we experience through Gnosis is described as the “resurrection from the dead”. It’s symbolically enacted through the Sacrament of Baptism, whereby we are restored to our original state of being and connection to the spiritual realm. We’re no longer of the world at that point.

When I talk about the Fullness, Gnostics tend to use the Greek word “Pleroma”, which is the totality of God. It’s described in scripture as being made up of “Aeons”, emanations of God that are expressions of His qualities. We, and everything in the world, are also an emanation of God, though the world experiences a separation from the Pleroma due to the imperfection we live in. So the resurrection is what allows us to escape the imperfection of the world and return to the Pleroma, restoring the Fullness to the Aeons.

The Gospel of Philip is a Valentinian sacramental text that explains the five initiatory Sacraments: Baptism, Chrism, Eucharist, Redemption, Bride-Chamber. I consider it just as inspired as other scripture, though as I don’t recognize an official canon of scripture, no one needs to officially declare it canonically inspired. It is what it is, and it can help us understand the Sacraments and the grace they bestow upon us, but it has no more or less authority than any other book of scripture.

But you didn’t “escape the imperfection” of the world. Your experiencing a separation do to imperfection, so how does one obtain this and of what certainty do you have you obtained it? How could you know when admittedly you don’t have it?

So what does a book require to be inspired? Somewhat be consistent with your belief?

 

[OmegaPoint]

Totally agree with your last paragraph. Yes it is indeed unfortunate that these great spiritual practices of the ancients have been hijacked by the new age movement and basically become the opiate of suburban soccer moms with nothing better to do all day.

I see this same thing happening with the enneagram. I think it contains so much wisdom and insight into human psychology but unfortunately these simple minded people just use it to feel unique and special. " oh I wanna be a four therefore im a four".

Could not agree with you more. My personal favorite is this new school of Neo-Vedanta teachers who go around teaching that there is nothing for a person to do because at their core they are already enlightened. Agitates me to no end, but then I realize my agitation is my own problem and then I use my agitation as a spiritual practice.

 

[gnosisofthomas]

I’m not exactly sure which lecture it was, or exactly the words he used, but it strongly impressed upon me that the material world and its creatures were essentially not a pressing concern of the Gnostics, and that we needn’t waste time worrying about them. I will say that I enjoyed very much listening to Mr. Hoeller, and I still have a couple of his books on my shelf. He’s a very intelligent and clever man, and I found him to be laugh-out-loud funny at times, too!

Without hearing what he said, it’s hard to comment on… I do know though, that as a man in his 80s now who suffered under fascism in Europe, it’s had a negative impression on him that’s lasted his whole life. My priest, who’s very involved in social justice and works as the director of a food bank here, gave a lecture at a church convention years ago on Social Justice and Gnosticism… Sadly, I wasn’t there so I have no idea what was said, but I’ve heard that the bishop wasn’t too impressed with the lecture and responded to it in his homily the next day. Knowing Bp. +Hoeller, I know he’s a compassionate man, but I suspect that his negative experiences with socialism have left him somewhat jaded. Most of the Gnostics I know, including myself, all have jobs serving the under-privileged… I think when you recognize that our separation is just an illusion, you can’t help but love others and want to make their life the best it can be.

Also, yeah, +Stephan’s pretty funny – I love how he inserts random jokes into his lectures, haha!

 

[OmegaPoint]

Without hearing what he said, it’s hard to comment on… I do know though, that as a man in his 80s now who suffered under fascism in Europe, it’s had a negative impression on him that’s lasted his whole life. My priest, who’s very involved in social justice and works as the director of a food bank here, gave a lecture at a church convention years ago on Social Justice and Gnosticism… Sadly, I wasn’t there so I have no idea what was said, but I’ve heard that the bishop wasn’t too impressed with the lecture and responded to it in his homily the next day. Knowing Bp. +Hoeller, I know he’s a compassionate man, but I suspect that his negative experiences with socialism have left him somewhat jaded. Most of the Gnostics I know, including myself, all have jobs serving the under-privileged… I think when you recognize that our separation is just an illusion, you can’t help but love others and want to make their life the best it can be.

Also, yeah, +Stephan’s pretty funny – I love how he inserts random jokes into his lectures, haha!

What are some Gnostic works you could recommend besides the Nag Hammadi library and the Pistis Sophia and the like. I have read some of Richard Smoley’s takes on Gnosticism and a couple of Tau Malachi’s works, but I am always interested in learning more.

Also anyone who is interested in an apparent Orthodox take on Gnosis should check out Boris Mouravieff’s 3 volume Gnosis series. It is written by a Russian Aristocrat who was a member of the Orthodox church and he claims that this is the complete Esoteric doctrine as taught by the monks on Mt. Athos. It is based upon scripture and the Philokalia of the Desert Fathers. Impressive work when not bogged down in metaphysics.

 

[GaryTaylor]

I know very little. I have experienced a few profound mystical and spiritual experiences but in and of themselves, the experiences are just that, another experience and means very little. I have learned to devalue personal “subjective experience” unless guided by some external, traditional practice that can guide and deepen these experiences. .

I see, so your recommendation is any spiritual director and of any and all religions since you claim none are absolute and you will learn this …

to be able to traverse the spiritual path successfully

I do believe it is essential that one be grounded in a well established tradition, whether that tradition be Catholicism, Buddhism, Hindu Vedanta, or yes, even Islam (Sufi) in order to be able to traverse the spiritual path successfully.

I can imagine how you arrived at this? Another opinion since you know very little admittedly?

Truth in that there are many paths that lead to the top of the mountain.

But you know very little? Then how in the world do you know this? You read it in the book thats not required for the illiterate.

 

[OmegaPoint]

I see, so your recommendation is any spiritual director and of any and all religions since you claim none are absolute and you will learn this …

I can imagine how you arrived at this? Another opinion since you know very little admittedly?

But you know very little? Then how in the world do you know this? You read it in the book thats not required for the illiterate.

Of course it is an opinion, and yes it is my opinion, and no I make no claims to be in possession of ultimate truth. I believe that “truth” has been discovered by every traditional culture in the world, not just Western Roman Catholicism. However, how each culture interprets that truth is conditioned by time, place and culture. These are our only manner of experiencing and expressing these truths. Your belief is also simply your opinion no matter how much you want to to state that it is the truth. There is simply no “Objective” test for establishing religious truth, otherwise we would all worship the exact same things in the exact same way without any real or valid disagreement.

 

[gnosisofthomas]

Gnosis of Thomas:
I was wondering how does one evaluate one’s spiritual experiences and intuitions in Gnosticism? I have sensed a lot of misunderstanding of Eastern Meditational techniques in this thread, where people continue to label them simplistically as “Subjective Experiences”, however, anyone who has ever participated in a traditional school knows that this is far from the truth. Individual experiences must be judged by an experienced Master who can interpret and guide a person in their meditational practices as when these practices are left alone to an individual they can be quite misleading and even dangerous. “Subjective” experience means very little in Meditation unless that experience can be validated according to a long and deeply developed tradition. How does Gnosticism deal with this problem of validation since the tradition was decimated due to Orthodox persecution? Do you have “Masters” to guide you on your practice and certain objective roadmaps and guidepost that are typically encountered during the Gnostic path?

The most important roadmaps are certainly the Sacraments, especially the Eucharist. Scripture is also useful, because in it we can read of others’ experiences, which can guide us to having our own and also help us to evaluate them. In modern times, we don’t really have masters as Eastern religions do, but evaluation is by and large relegated to communal experience and sharing insights with each other. Speaking with a priest or bishop is particularly helpful in evaluating an experience, especially the older ones who have been down the road and had their own experiences.

On a personal level, I had a spiritual experience a number of years ago that led me to attending my church. I wouldn’t call it Gnosis, but it was certainly a profound experience. It took a great deal prayer and discernment to evaluate whether it was real or if I was just crazy (haha!). It was clearly not a demonic experience, as there was no sense of malice whatsoever – but it required talking about it, even writing about it, in order to make sense of it.

 

[gnosisofthomas]

I hope you don’t mind my interjecting here, but you and I have some things in common. I came to Traditional Christianity via the Perennial Philosophy, and still hold some views not dissimilar from those you’ve presented here. My understanding of the Traditionalist (or traditional Perennialist…?) view is that, although one believes there exists a transcendent unity of religions, one must, practically speaking, belong to one traditional and authentic religion exclusively… as I just realized you already said above. So do you follow one? Or are you going to make me guess?

I am not sure how popular it is among Catholic readers, but I highly recommend “Meditations on the Tarot - A Journey Into Christian Hermeticism” for a Perennialist and Catholic perspective. Brilliant book!

Meditations on the Tarot is a beautiful book, steeped in mystical Catholicism. There’s even a picture of Pope John Paul II with the two-volume copy.

 

[Hodegetria]

Truth doesnt change according to different cultures, different times etc.

The Catholic Church does claim possession of the Truth.

God = TRUTH, the absolute essence of being and reality is God, God is the author of all truth. If you are interested in truth beyond what different cultures and times say it is, then you must look to God.

Jesus said, “I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life…”

Skeptics will dismiss His claim, but for Catholics, He is the mainstay of our entire faith. Jesus, who walked on water, claimed to be divine, rose from the dead, and said that He was the TRUTH.

If Jesus is wrong, then we should ignore Him.
If He is right, then we can only listen to Him.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Of course it is an opinion, and yes it is my opinion, and no I make no claims to be in possession of ultimate truth. I believe that “truth” has been discovered by every traditional culture in the world, not just Western Roman Catholicism. However, how each culture interprets that truth is conditioned by time, place and culture. These are our only manner of experiencing and expressing these truths.

But you admit you know nothing about. Further if you know nothing about it, then its impossible you would know any truth of it whatsoever. You don’t see this?

I know very little. I have experienced a few profound mystical and spiritual experiences but in and of themselves, the experiences are just that, another experience and means very little. I have learned to devalue personal “subjective experience” unless guided by some external, traditional practice that can guide and deepen these experiences. .

to be able to traverse the spiritual path successfully

We are talking about YOUR belief, not mine, not what you wrongly deduced about Aquinas which btw is when you chimed in about divine revelation, which again admittedly you know nothing about. So tell me how is you KNOW Aquinas isn’t absolutely right in his own mystical private revelation. You just don’t know, and admittedly.

 

[stavros388]

I do indeed follow one tradition and I was brought to it from reading “Meditations on the Tarot.” I was a bit of an anthroposphist prior to reading this work, so I imagine you can figure out which tradition I belong to now. It is the most profound spiritual book I have ever encountered. I think for the Western Mind, Catholicism is the most appropriate religion and even the Dalai Lama himself has stated as much. That is one aspect I truly appreciate about Eastern Teachers, a true teacher will usually refer the seeker back to the tradition in which he or she was raised or which is the basis for their culture. Of course they will not reject a seeker if they are truly dedicated to seeking a new path, but they will not seek to instantly convert the person to their religion like those in the West will do. I believe that Eastern Religions can be used as a basis to broaden our faith and spiritual practices, but they must be firmly grounded in our Western Tradition.
My spiritual advisor is a Dominican Monk with two PHD’s from the Pontifical University and I am truly blessed to have such an erudite, well read, open minded, and spiritually advanced instructor to guide me.

Maybe you and I should start our own Perrenialist Thread I would love to discuss books and spiritual practices with you.

Aha! Fascinating. I am certain we’d have a lot to talk about. Hopefully we will discuss more on these matters at some time in the future!

 

[stavros388]

Without hearing what he said, it’s hard to comment on… I do know though, that as a man in his 80s now who suffered under fascism in Europe, it’s had a negative impression on him that’s lasted his whole life. My priest, who’s very involved in social justice and works as the director of a food bank here, gave a lecture at a church convention years ago on Social Justice and Gnosticism… Sadly, I wasn’t there so I have no idea what was said, but I’ve heard that the bishop wasn’t too impressed with the lecture and responded to it in his homily the next day. Knowing Bp. +Hoeller, I know he’s a compassionate man, but I suspect that his negative experiences with socialism have left him somewhat jaded. Most of the Gnostics I know, including myself, all have jobs serving the under-privileged… I think when you recognize that our separation is just an illusion, you can’t help but love others and want to make their life the best it can be.

Also, yeah, +Stephan’s pretty funny – I love how he inserts random jokes into his lectures, haha!

Very interesting… And it’s great to hear about the commitment to social justice in your church.

 

[OmegaPoint]

But you admit you know nothing about. Further if you know nothing about it, then its impossible you would know any truth of it whatsoever. You don’t see this?

We are talking about YOUR belief, not mine, not what you wrongly deduced about Aquinas which btw is when you chimed in about divine revelation, which again admittedly you know nothing about. So tell me how is you KNOW Aquinas isn’t absolutely right in his own mystical private revelation. You just don’t know, and admittedly.

How exactly do you know that I am wrong about Aquinas? You think you know, but you don’t, and honestly, neither do I. I am interpreting Aquinas’s actions and words based upon what I have read and experienced. I have Aquinas and I have read several of the Buddhist and Zen Masters. Have you read the extremely well developed Metaphysics of the Hindu Vedanta Master Shankara? It is every bit as logical and well developed as Aquinas and an absolute masterpiece of metaphysics. I personally believe that Aquinas went through all the different levels of mystical experience, which initially are very contingent upon one’s cultural background (Example Buddhist see Buddha, Hindus see Krisna and Kali, Christians see Mary and Jesus, etc.) This is a phase of mystical development that one moves past and one moves beyond images, thoughts, emotions, into pure bliss filled awareness. I believe Aquinas eventually came to the highest spiritual experience that one can realize, that of the ineffeable, transcendent godhead, about which absolutely nothing can be said, and all works describing it are simply like straw. When one reaches this point, the most that one can say about it is silence.

 

[OmegaPoint]

Truth doesnt change according to different cultures, different times etc.

The Catholic Church does claim possession of the Truth.

God = TRUTH, the absolute essence of being and reality is God, God is the author of all truth. If you are interested in truth beyond what different cultures and times say it is, then you must look to God.

Jesus said, “I am the way, the TRUTH, and the life…”

Skeptics will dismiss His claim, but for Catholics, He is the mainstay of our entire faith. Jesus, who walked on water, claimed to be divine, rose from the dead, and said that He was the TRUTH.

If Jesus is wrong, then we should ignore Him.
If He is right, then we can only listen to Him.

You are absolutely correct in that truth does not change from Age to age and from Culture to Culture, however, our understanding and knowledge of the “Ultimate Truth” does change. Even Catholics believe in progressive revelation so in fact Truth is gradually revealed. So while truth never changes, our ability to understand and perceive what that truth is, absolutely does change. The truth of physics has never changed, we just did not have sufficient understanding or technology to understand it, yet it was there all the time. Calculus has been true since time began, but we did not experience its truth until it was developed by Issac Newton. Same with Geometry and all areas of human knowledge and understanding. It is a gradual unfolding over time.

The Catholic Church can claim that it possesses Ultimate and Final truth all it wants, that does not make such a claim true. Does the Catholic Church possess truth, absolutely, probably more than religious institution in the Western World, does it possess the most truth, possibly, I don’t know and there is really no way to verify such a claim. That is why truth claims concerning the supernatural and transcendent reality irk me, there is simply no method or manner to verify such claims, so I tend to view such claims with a bit of skepticism. That does not mean that there is no Truth, I just question our ability to actually comprehend what that truth actually is.