Ask a Gnostic Anything

[gnosisofthomas]

What are some Gnostic works you could recommend besides the Nag Hammadi library and the Pistis Sophia and the like. I have read some of Richard Smoley’s takes on Gnosticism and a couple of Tau Malachi’s works, but I am always interested in learning more.

Also anyone who is interested in an apparent Orthodox take on Gnosis should check out Boris Mouravieff’s 3 volume Gnosis series. It is written by a Russian Aristocrat who was a member of the Orthodox church and he claims that this is the complete Esoteric doctrine as taught by the monks on Mt. Athos. It is based upon scripture and the Philokalia of the Desert Fathers. Impressive work when not bogged down in metaphysics.

+Stephan Hoeller’s book Gnosticism is a good start as an introduction. Elaine Pagels, who helped translate the Nag Hammadi Library, has also written a number of good books: The Gnostic Gospels, Beyond Belief, The Gnostic Paul, are all pretty good. June Singer’s Gnostic Book of Hours is another good one. It’s basically a collection of readings from Gnostic scripture organized like a book of hours, with commentary on the passages. If I can think of any more I’ll let you know.

 

[OmegaPoint]

The most important roadmaps are certainly the Sacraments, especially the Eucharist. Scripture is also useful, because in it we can read of others’ experiences, which can guide us to having our own and also help us to evaluate them. In modern times, we don’t really have masters as Eastern religions do, but evaluation is by and large relegated to communal experience and sharing insights with each other. Speaking with a priest or bishop is particularly helpful in evaluating an experience, especially the older ones who have been down the road and had their own experiences.

On a personal level, I had a spiritual experience a number of years ago that led me to attending my church. I wouldn’t call it Gnosis, but it was certainly a profound experience. It took a great deal prayer and discernment to evaluate whether it was real or if I was just crazy (haha!). It was clearly not a demonic experience, as there was no sense of malice whatsoever – but it required talking about it, even writing about it, in order to make sense of it.

Thank you for sharing. I too had a profound mystical experience that caused similar disruption in my life and took much spiritual work to sort out its implications. God bless you.

 

[Lucretius]

OmegaPoint:

You keep talking about how each religion reaches the same spot in the end, Ramakrisna style. Now, I have to ask you, what exactly is the telos, purpose, aim, end of religion? Is it to reach the ultimate Reality/Truth? What is the ultimate Reality that all religions are aiming for? Do you think that all religions equally are capable of reaching It? Or are some better than others? If so, which is the best?

What is the logical end of Buddhism?
What is the logical end of Gnosticism?
What is the logical end of Christianity?

On another note, I haven’t seem Sophia Christ in a while, I wonder if he/she got bored of us?

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[OmegaPoint]

OmegaPoint:

You keep talking about how each religion reaches the same spot in the end, Ramakrisna style. Now, I have to ask you, what exactly is the telos, purpose, aim, end of religion? Is it to reach the ultimate Reality/Truth? What is the ultimate Reality that all religions are aiming for? Do you think that all religions equally are capable of reaching It? Or are some better than others? If so, which is the best?

What is the logical end of Buddhism?
What is the logical end of Gnosticism?
What is the logical end of Christianity?

On another note, I haven’t seem Sophia Christ in a while, I wonder if he/she got bored of us?

Christi pax,

Lucretius

I think all traditional religions with a mystical esoteric path are equally valid paths to truth. I think Taoism, Buddhism, certain branches of Hinduism (Kashmir Shavism being my favorite), Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Islam (Sufi paths) are suitable means. I do not mean the New Agey, Oprah mainstream versions of Buddhism and hinduism, and I doubt one would be able to find a realized master in those traditions in most parts of the US who could effectively lead one on the path. I think however that the path that one chooses should be grounded in their traditional culture, therefore for Westerners I think Catholicism and possibly Eastern Orthodoxy are good paths. As I mentioned earlier, even the Dalai Lama himself has suggested in the past that Eastern Traditional practices are not ideally suited to Westerners, not because of any type of cultural superiority, but because our cultures and our understanding of the world are just so very different that many ideas we just take for granted are completely foreign to them and vice versa.

As far as what the end of these paths are - Truth of Course. What does that mean? Have you ever encountered the Ten Ox Herding Pictures in Zen Buddhism? They are very fascinating and have been a mainstay in Buddhism for centuries but essentially they are just 10 pictures that illustrate the spiritual path along with a short poem for each picture. I don’t know if you are familiar with the Catholic Mystic named Bernadette Roberts, but there is a fascinating comparison of her take on the Ox Herding pictures compared with that of a Zen Master’s take on the pictures and while they differ in essential aspects in the beginning pictures and the middle, both Roberts and the Zen Master almost describe the last picture exactly the same way. It is truly a beautiful read.

One could also use the old zen saying. What was life like before your enlightenment master - Well I used to chop wood and carry water. Well what is your life like now after your enlightenment - Well I still Chop wood and carry water.

 

[OmegaPoint]

“The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.
Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.”
The Way of Chuang Tzu by Thomas Merton

 

[Lucretius]

But the “truths” of each religion contradict each other. Buddhists believe that the entire world in in a state of flux: no statics. But Judo-Christian thought teaches at least two, God and the human soul. They logically contradict one another. Based on the law of non-contradiction, one is wrong, or both are wrong. Furthermore, Truth and ultimate reality sound static, so the Buddhist would deny their existence.

How can such different worldviews reach the same end? The end Buddhists reach is nirvana, which neither exists nor not exists. What is the end of Christianity? The beatific Vision, which certainly exists. Their ends are not the same. How can you say they end up reaching the same place?

Finally, if all religion have an equal ability to reach Truth, then so does the Aztec religion, with its slaughter of human sacrifices.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[Lucretius]

“The purpose of words is to convey ideas. When the ideas are grasped, the words are forgotten.
Where can I find a man who has forgotten words? He is the one I would like to talk to.”
The Way of Chuang Tzu by Thomas Merton

This is why Thomas Merton is not cannonised. This is pretty unChristian. Forget words? Christ is the Word of God!!! Words are the incarnation of thought: in the same way, Christ is something like the incarnation of the God’s thoughts!

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[meltzerboy]

But the “truths” of each religion contradict each other. Buddhists believe that the entire world in in a state of flux: no statics. But Judo-Christian thought teaches at least two, God and the human soul. They logically contradict one another. Based on the law of non-contradiction, one is wrong, or both are wrong. Furthermore, Truth and ultimate reality sound static, so the Buddhist would deny their existence.

How can such different worldviews reach the same end? The end Buddhists reach is nirvana, which neither exists nor not exists. What is the end of Christianity? The beatific Vision, which certainly exists. Their ends are not the same. How can you say they end up reaching the same place?

Finally, if all religion have an equal ability to reach Truth, then so does the Aztec religion, with its slaughter of human sacrifices.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

Maybe not ALL religions have “an equal ability to reach Truth,” but, according to Judaism, most do. The important thing in Judaism is not reaching truth, but rather learning how to behave toward one another and toward ourselves. Morality may differ from one religion to another in some of the finer details, but honest and ethical behavior can still be strived for and the will of G-d can be achieved.

 

[OmegaPoint]

This is why Thomas Merton is not cannonised. This is pretty unChristian. Forget words? Christ is the Word of God!!! Words are the incarnation of thought: in the same way, Christ is something like the incarnation of the God’s thoughts!

Christi pax,

Lucretius

Thomas Merton has only been dead 30 years, give it time. St. John of the Cross also said that God speaks in silence and he is canonized.
Truth also transcends Logical laws of non-contradiction. That is a concept, all concepts become null and void.

 

[Lucretius]

Thomas Merton has only been dead 30 years, give it time. St. John of the Cross also said that God speaks in silence and he is canonized.
Truth also transcends Logical laws of non-contradiction. That is a concept, all concepts become null and void.

I’m sorry, but you just threw rational thought out the window. The light of the intellect just went out

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[Lucretius]

Maybe not ALL religions have “an equal ability to reach Truth,” but, according to Judaism, most do. The important thing in Judaism is not reaching truth, but rather learning how to behave toward one another and toward ourselves. Morality may differ from one religion to another in some of the finer details, but honest and ethical behavior can still be strived for and the will of G-d can be achieved.

Immanuel Kant introduced the idea that religion is reducible to ethics. I actual think that most religions do agree ethically wise. For example, the Dalai Lama and the Pope are both against abortion and homosexual acts. I think that Confucianism and Catholicism are compatible!

However, I don’t believe that religion is reducible to ethics. Different religions make different claims about the world that transcend ethics. One can be right, none can be right. But these claims can’t be hand waved away in the name of “tolerance.” If there are two things that all humans throughout history find Sacred, and worth fighting for, it’s Truth and Love.

Also, you insult atheists. If religion=ethics, then an atheism can’t be ethical without a religion.

Why should truth not matter in religion? It matters in everything else. Having good intentions are not enough to be a brain surgeon. Truth is needed too (that analogy is from Dr. Peter Kreeft, btw).

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[curtish1947]

Immanuel Kant introduced the idea that religion is reducible to ethics. I actual think that most religions do agree ethically wise. For example, the Dalai Lama and the Pope are both against abortion and homosexual acts. I think that Confucianism and Catholicism are compatible!

However, I don’t believe that religion is reducible to ethics. Different religions make different claims about the world that transcend ethics. One can be right, none can be right. But these claims can’t be hand waved away in the name of “tolerance.” If there are two things that all humans throughout history find Sacred, and worth fighting for, it’s Truth and Love.

Also, you insult atheists. If religion=ethics, then an atheism can’t be ethical without a religion.

Why should truth not matter in religion? It matters in everything else. Having good intentions are not enough to be a brain surgeon. Truth is needed too (that analogy is from Dr. Peter Kreeft, btw).

Christi pax,

Lucretius

Hi,
How you know this and how you can say this is impressive to me, Lucretius. I could chime in on any of your points, and maybe provide nothing but Objectively, you are correct.
However maybe I can tell you of an observation, on Atheists. It is this, and hopefully stated other places. I did research on Atheists. I wanted to merely find out if I could find one. I needed a good definition of that for my work. “No possibility that a god exists out there who is responsible for all this” is roughly what I remember of this years old research. I looked and looked, but told no one of my work. As I am collecting data, I would find a real not a partial atheist from time to time. However, one thing I noticed is that the Atheists I found acted like Christians of a certain quality. They acted like perfect Christians. I would love to be that good, I thought. Each time I came across one, that too is what I found. I found that in each and every extreme Atheist.
When I was done with my work, and had enough proven data, I was able to think, talk and feel about these findings. One thing that surprised me, is no one could say that there is no possibility that God exists out there, who is responsible for all of this. Two each of them when asked to explain then how they could call themselves two of them just thought what others were saying about Religion and God was incorrect. One had a mother who was Catholic who hurt him a lot. Another just thought what he was taught was wrong, and these are the two most extreme atheists, I was able to find, in more than 20 years of searching.
The word Attheist as commonly used is defined by, I am sure you are wrong about God. That’s it. On the last extreme case of Atheism, bubling with energy as I finallly was allowed to get to her, she merely in explaining her former statement of absolute Atheism, that there are degrees of Atheism.
As stunning as that work is, it means this. Everyone believes in God, they just don’e believe everything everyone says about God. Also, Atheists are willing to walk away, when ethics and morality are violated in their religion. They are and have walked away when hurt, or when lied to by a religous person. But, they are more honest and ethical than some who stay in religions despite what is wrong.
That is my research on Atheism. So the man above is right. Do not insult Atheists. Even Jesus said things similar to that, in Mark 9 38-42. It is not to anger people who actually know less about God than you do. He was talking to the then Bishops of Catholocism when He said that to them.
The man is right.
…Curt/K.

 

[OmegaPoint]

I’m sorry, but you just threw rational thought out the window. The light of the intellect just went out

Christi pax,

Lucretius

Absolutely.

 

[Lucretius]

Hi,
How you know this and how you can say this is impressive to me, Lucretius. I could chime in on any of your points, and maybe provide nothing but Objectively, you are correct.
However maybe I can tell you of an observation, on Atheists. It is this, and hopefully stated other places. I did research on Atheists. I wanted to merely find out if I could find one. I needed a good definition of that for my work. “No possibility that a god exists out there who is responsible for all this” is roughly what I remember of this years old research. I looked and looked, but told no one of my work. As I am collecting data, I would find a real not a partial atheist from time to time. However, one thing I noticed is that the Atheists I found acted like Christians of a certain quality. They acted like perfect Christians. I would love to be that good, I thought. Each time I came across one, that too is what I found. I found that in each and every extreme Atheist.
When I was done with my work, and had enough proven data, I was able to think, talk and feel about these findings. One thing that surprised me, is no one could say that there is no possibility that God exists out there, who is responsible for all of this. Two each of them when asked to explain then how they could call themselves two of them just thought what others were saying about Religion and God was incorrect. One had a mother who was Catholic who hurt him a lot. Another just thought what he was taught was wrong, and these are the two most extreme atheists, I was able to find, in more than 20 years of searching.
The word Attheist as commonly used is defined by, I am sure you are wrong about God. That’s it. On the last extreme case of Atheism, bubling with energy as I finallly was allowed to get to her, she merely in explaining her former statement of absolute Atheism, that there are degrees of Atheism.
As stunning as that work is, it means this. Everyone believes in God, they just don’e believe everything everyone says about God. Also, Atheists are willing to walk away, when ethics and morality are violated in their religion. They are and have walked away when hurt, or when lied to by a religous person. But, they are more honest and ethical than some who stay in religions despite what is wrong.
That is my research on Atheism. So the man above is right. Do not insult Atheists. Even Jesus said things similar to that, in Mark 9 38-42. It is not to anger people who actually know less about God than you do. He was talking to the then Bishops of Catholocism when He said that to them.
The man is right.
…Curt/K.

Wow, thank you! I don’t really have any original thoughts. I just look for what others have found to be true (especially the Saints).

There is a blog by Kevin O’Brien (he’s an actor on EWTV) I follow here: thwordinc.blogspot.com/
He always points out that “Catholics are like everyone else, but worse” when it comes to ethics. I also know atheists that are far more righteous then many Christians (especially me!).

Actually the Church teaches that atheists can be good (they know the Torah in their hearts → natural law). God is the source of all Good, so even though an atheist denies God (or one specific conception of Him), God is still willing to work with him. What a loving God!

Lord, thank You for having mercy on our lost brothers,
and providing them with all the good things that they have.
Even if they have become lost, You, the Good Shepard, still watch them.
We give gratitude to You on their behalf, even if they don’t recognize You.
We pray for their conversion, for we know that not only do You desire them,
but that they need You to become Holy: what great Saints they could become!
We ask this through Christ our Lord, Amen.

St. Teresa Benedicta of the Cross, pray for us, and especially for our atheist brothers.
Just as you were found by our Creator, may other non-believers be as well.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[Hodegetria]

Wow, thank you! I don’t really have any original thoughts. I just look for what others have found to be true (especially the Saints).

There is a blog by Kevin O’Brien (he’s an actor on EWTV) I follow here: thwordinc.blogspot.com/
He always points out that “Catholics are like everyone else, but worse” when it comes to ethics. I also know atheists that are far more righteous then many Christians (especially me!).

Actually the Church teaches that atheists can be good (they know the Torah in their hearts → natural law). God is the source of all Good, so even though an atheist denies God (or one specific conception of Him), God is still willing to work with him. What a loving God!

Lord, thank You for having mercy on our lost brothers,
and providing them with all the good things that they have.
Even if they have become lost, You, the Good Shepard, still watch them.
We give gratitude to You on their behalf, even if they don’t recognize You.
We pray for their conversion, for we know that not only do You desire them,
but that they need You to become Holy: what great Saints they could become!
We ask this through Christ our Lord, Amen.

St. Teresa Benedicta of the Cross, pray for us, and especially for our atheist brothers.
Just as you were found by our Creator, may other non-believers be as well.

Christi pax,

Lucretius

Great post, and Curtish1947 as well.

 

[Sophia_Christ]

Hello all! Sorry I have not been able to get on the computer for a couple days. I thank gnosisofthomas for taking over while i’ve been away.

Any new questions/questions that have gone unanswered?

 

[Hodegetria]

Sophia Christ,
I am interested in knowing your profession or vocation, if it’s not too personal to ask. Are you / will you be doing something in the Gnostic ministry (as Rev. Winsor is)?

I’m wondering if you believe in miracles, such as miraculous healings, the kind the Catholic Church may base Sainthood upon during saint’s causes (I’m sure you know what I mean.)

Finally, in the post above this one, and I also noted earlier that you see OT & NT scripture as “myth”, not in the sense that they’re not true, but stories to learn from-- do you see the Gospel of Thomas the same or does that Gospel carry more weight? Thank you.

Bump up… Hi Sophia Christ, I’m glad you’re back. Thank for taking the time to answer all the questions. I had the above questions, if it’s not being too nosy. Thank you.

 

[meltzerboy]

Immanuel Kant introduced the idea that religion is reducible to ethics. I actual think that most religions do agree ethically wise. For example, the Dalai Lama and the Pope are both against abortion and homosexual acts. I think that Confucianism and Catholicism are compatible!

However, I don’t believe that religion is reducible to ethics. Different religions make different claims about the world that transcend ethics. One can be right, none can be right. But these claims can’t be hand waved away in the name of “tolerance.” If there are two things that all humans throughout history find Sacred, and worth fighting for, it’s Truth and Love.

Also, you insult atheists. If religion=ethics, then an atheism can’t be ethical without a religion.

Why should truth not matter in religion? It matters in everything else. Having good intentions are not enough to be a brain surgeon. Truth is needed too (that analogy is from Dr. Peter Kreeft, btw).

Christi pax,

Lucretius

While your argument makes perfect sense to me, I tend to agree with Kant that religion is reducible to ethics, which I define as love in action, regardless of which religion is the truth or closest to the truth, which I believe we cannot know for sure in our earthly life. While the technique involved in brain surgery, to pick up on Peter Kreeft’s analogy, must be learned to be an effective surgeon, I believe the technique involved in religious matters, that is, the details, are less important than the ethical message. As both Hillel the Elder and, later, Jesus stated regarding the Law, it really consists of two essential principles: the love of G-d and the love of one’s fellow man, and, as Hillel added, all the rest is commentary. In my view, the spirit of the Law, based on ethics, is far more important than the letter of the law. As the New Testament says, faith without love is dead; and faith, hope, and charity, these three, but the greatest of these is charity.

 

[Sophia_Christ]

Bump up… Hi Sophia Christ, I’m glad you’re back. Thank for taking the time to answer all the questions. I had the above questions, if it’s not being too nosy. Thank you.

Your welcome Hodegetria! I am an elementary school teacher. As I am an independent practitioner, I do not take part in the ecclesiastical body of the Gnostic Church. However, as I am currently reading CG Jung’s Transformation Symbolism in the Mass and finding it very enlightening, I cannot rule out the fact that I may one day take part in the Gnostic ministry in some form.

I do indeed believe in miracles. I believe that many of them can be explained by examination of the psyche, but that does not make them any less miraculous in my opinion (although others may disagree).

The Gospel of Thomas is mostly just a collection of sayings and parables by Jesus, but yes I do interpret all scripture in the light of myth.

 

[Lucretius]

While your argument makes perfect sense to me, I tend to agree with Kant that religion is reducible to ethics, which I define as love in action, regardless of which religion is the truth or closest to the truth, which I believe we cannot know for sure in our earthly life. While the technique involved in brain surgery, to pick up on Peter Kreeft’s analogy, must be learned to be an effective surgeon, I believe the technique involved in religious matters, that is, the details, are less important than the ethical message. As both Hillel the Elder and, later, Jesus stated regarding the Law, it really consists of two essential principles: the love of G-d and the love of one’s fellow man, and, as Hillel added, all the rest is commentary. In my view, the spirit of the Law, based on ethics, is far more important than the letter of the law. As the New Testament says, faith without love is dead; and faith, hope, and charity, these three, but the greatest of these is charity.

We Christians believe that God is Truth: “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life.” So when we know the Truth, we in a sense know God. To love the Truth is the love God with your mind, thus fulfilling the Commandment.

One of my favorite astronomers/scientists was John Kepler. He actually thought he was doing a sort of theology by studying the universe. If only he were Catholic

We Catholics don’t want to say that ethics through Love don’t matter. We Catholics don’t want to say that Truth doesn’t matter. We want to be more universal, more both/and, more catholic…we say that they both matter.

Christi pax,

Lucretius