Ask a Gnostic Anything

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Wow, thank you! 😊 I don’t really have any original thoughts. I just look for what others have found to be true (especially the Saints).

There is a blog by Kevin O’Brien (he’s an actor on EWTV) I follow here: thwordinc.blogspot.com/
He always points out that ā€œCatholics are like everyone else, but worseā€ when it comes to ethics. I also know atheists that are far more righteous then many Christians (especially me!).

Actually the Church teaches that atheists can be good (they know the Torah in their hearts → natural law). God is the source of all Good, so even though an atheist denies God (or one specific conception of Him), God is still willing to work with him. What a loving God!

Lord, thank You for having mercy on our lost brothers,
and providing them with all the good things that they have.
Even if they have become lost, You, the Good Shepard, still watch them.
We give gratitude to You on their behalf, even if they don’t recognize You.
We pray for their conversion, for we know that not only do You desire them,
but that they need You to become Holy: what great Saints they could become!
We ask this through Christ our Lord, Amen.

St. Teresa Benedicta of the Cross, pray for us, and especially for our atheist brothers.
Just as you were found by our Creator, may other non-believers be as well.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
Very true. I used to ask myself as a former atheist: where in the heck did my moral compass come from, in light of the fact that evolution i.e. natural processes, is silent on the matter.
 
I don’t really have any original thoughts. I just look for what others have found to be true (especially the Saints).
I hate to hear you say that Lucretius! You are one of the smarter people I have communicated with on an internet forum and to base your opinions purely on what others have formulated seems very intellectually lazy 😦
 
I hate to hear you say that Lucretius! You are one of the smarter people I have communicated with on an internet forum and to base your opinions purely on what others have formulated seems very intellectually lazy 😦
Thank you, but the problem is is that I’ll think up something new, something ingenious that I’ll get really excited about. Then a few weeks later, I’ll read a great thinker, like Aristole, Aquinas, Descrates, (maybe) Nietzsche, etc., and find out that someone else has said it, or at least already considered it.

I am also only 20 years old, so I don’t think I have experienced enough of the world to have original thoughts yet.

Just because it’s new doesn’t make it true (I just wanted to rhyme šŸ™‚ ) And it is a sign of humility to accept that others have found truth before you. In fact, when we accept the truths that our ancestors labored over, we can then start focusing on finding new truths to build upon.

I don’t really base my opinions on what others have formulated per se, but rather on the basis of whether what that person says is true. I find the Aristotle-Aquinas tradition to be the best philosophy basically because it bases itself on common sense, on the way the common man sees the world, which I think we all should, as a matter of principle.

Anyway, I think I asked your opinion on Hermeticism, Astrology, Theurgy, and Giordano Bruno, not in that order, IIRC.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
I hate to hear you say that Lucretius! You are one of the smarter people I have communicated with on an internet forum and to base your opinions purely on what others have formulated seems very intellectually lazy 😦
I agree. Lucretius is very smart/knowledgeable and quite articulate; I have really enjoyed reading his posts, and yours.šŸ‘ Conversely, formulating an opinion purely on what one intuits, or comes to believe over time, based on his/her eventual interpretation/understanding, can be quite divisive resulting in many beliefs about the same topic e.g. the protestant fracturing of Christs’ Mystical Body, the Church. For catholics it’s rather simple: although we have considerable leeway to discern truth from our unique perspective, we still feel it necessary to defer to a higher authority when doctrinal differences occur, and that higher authority is God via Jesus’ church leadership, comprised of all fallible leaders. For you, I think, the final authority, regarding Christian Gnosticism, ends with you?
 
Thank you, but the problem is is that I’ll think up something new, something ingenious that I’ll get really excited about. Then a few weeks later, I’ll read a great thinker, like Aristole, Aquinas, Descrates, (maybe) Nietzsche, etc., and find out that someone else has said it, or at least already considered it.

I am also only 20 years old, so I don’t think I have experienced enough of the world to have original thoughts yet.

Just because it’s new doesn’t make it true (I just wanted to rhyme šŸ™‚ ) And it is a sign of humility to accept that others have found truth before you. In fact, when we accept the truths that our ancestors labored over, we can then start focusing on finding new truths to build upon.

I don’t really base my opinions on what others have formulated per se, but rather on the basis of whether what that person says is true. I find the Aristotle-Aquinas tradition to be the best philosophy basically because it bases itself on common sense, on the way the common man sees the world, which I think we all should, as a matter of principle.

Anyway, I think I asked your opinion on Hermeticism, Astrology, Theurgy, and Giordano Bruno, not in that order, IIRC.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
Two comments here: remember the Bible says ā€œOut of the mouths of babesā€¦ā€ and rhyming is good.
 
Very true. I used to ask myself as a former atheist: where in the heck did my moral compass come from, in light of the fact that evolution i.e. natural processes, is silent on the matter.
I find that most philosophies/religions/worldviews have three main ways to base a moral statement:
  1. On God (divine command theory would be in this category)
  2. Science (the older sense of the word: on the teleology of human nature)
  3. Society (morality is a sort of democracy)
A coherent moral philosophy is not mutually exclusive to only one category . For example, Catholic moral philosophy actually takes into account all three. For example, the law of fasting on Fridays is based mostly on divine law, while the wickedness of rape is based mostly on the natural law of justice (in fact 7 of the 10 commandments are in the natural law), and modesty, although it’s in both the natural law and the divine law, is often expressed differently in other cultures (in American culture, men holding hands is a sign of a homosexual relationship, but to Eastern Europeans, it is a sign of friendship. In some cultures sleeping with women who are not your wife is innocent enough, although I don’t recommend it).

Postmodernists (and fascists) think that morality is based entirely on society (early modern thought, specifically Locke ,seems to point in this direction), some eastern (and pre-Christian Western thought) thinks it is based on a combination of reason and society, with Judeo-Christian thought adding in divine laws. Protestant thought largely agrees with the divine command theory (Luther and Calvin were command theorists), but has lately come to a more Catholic (natural law) view.

The biggest reason I think many Westerners think that Atheists can’t be moral is because of the cultural influence of Divine command theory (Locke thought so).

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
Thank you, but the problem is is that I’ll think up something new, something ingenious that I’ll get really excited about. Then a few weeks later, I’ll read a great thinker, like Aristole, Aquinas, Descrates, (maybe) Nietzsche, etc., and find out that someone else has said it, or at least already considered it.

I am also only 20 years old, so I don’t think I have experienced enough of the world to have original thoughts yet.

Just because it’s new doesn’t make it true (I just wanted to rhyme šŸ™‚ ) And it is a sign of humility to accept that others have found truth before you. In fact, when we accept the truths that our ancestors labored over, we can then start focusing on finding new truths to build upon.

I don’t really base my opinions on what others have formulated per se, but rather on the basis of whether what that person says is true. I find the Aristotle-Aquinas tradition to be the best philosophy basically because it bases itself on common sense, on the way the common man sees the world, which I think we all should, as a matter of principle.

Anyway, I think I asked your opinion on Hermeticism, Astrology, Theurgy, and Giordano Bruno, not in that order, IIRC.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
Let it be known-Lucretius the die hard Nietzsche supporter! šŸ˜›

Haha but thanks for clearing that up-it initially it appeared that you were advocating an deductive approach which I think would betray your natural intellectual capacities.

Hermeticism: There are many parallels between Hermeticism and Gnosticism. From a psychological point of view Hermes represents consciousness. Consciousness originates from a combination of our inherent divinity (Herme’s father Zeus) and its combination with the world (his grandfather Atlas). Also, if you examine the baffling and paradoxical characteristics that Hermes possesses, you will find that it mirrors many of the qualities of the human mind.

Astrology: I believe astrology to be a potent allegorical, alchemical force that mirrors much of the activity of the psyche. However as gnosisofthomas stated in a previous post, once one accepts Christ as the embodiment of truth, astrology plays no role in the decision of our fate.

Theurgy: Although I am an independent practitioner, and do not participate in any rituals, I have been convinced through writings of Jung, Charles Leadbeater, and the Theosophists that there is indeed some sort of magical conjuring of divinity associated with certain rituals.

Giordano Bruno: I am not too familiar with him-wasn’t he a Copernican astronomer?
 
I agree. Lucretius is very smart/knowledgeable and quite articulate; I have really enjoyed reading his posts, and yours.šŸ‘ Conversely, formulating an opinion purely on what one intuits, or comes to believe over time, based on his/her eventual interpretation/understanding, can be quite divisive resulting in many beliefs about the same topic e.g. the protestant fracturing of Christs’ Mystical Body, the Church. For catholics it’s rather simple: although we have considerable leeway to discern truth from our unique perspective, we still feel it necessary to defer to a higher authority when doctrinal differences occur, and that higher authority is God via Jesus’ church leadership, comprised of all fallible leaders. For you, I think, the final authority, regarding Christian Gnosticism, ends with you?
I don’t think there is as big of a disagreement gap between us as there may appear. We just have different opinions on whether authority or intuition should be subordinate in determining truth. I have no problem with striving to see whether one’s conclusions line up with an authority or already existing mode of thought (this is clear by the fact that I identify myself as a Gnostic), but I don’t believe that ultimately one should mold their opinions around said authority/doctrine.
 
I don’t think there is as big of a disagreement gap between us as there may appear. We just have different opinions on whether authority or intuition should be subordinate in determining truth. I have no problem with striving to see whether one’s conclusions line up with an authority or already existing mode of thought (this is clear by the fact that I identify myself as a Gnostic), but I don’t believe that ultimately one should mold their opinions around said authority/doctrine.
It sounds like you are saying: Ultimately, one should not establish opinions based solely on an authoritative body, even in cases where doctrinal differences occur due to multiple opinions, i.e. in the end, at least within Christendom, there is no definitive authority, other than scripture?
 
Let it be known-Lucretius the die hard Nietzsche supporter! šŸ˜›
I have love/hate relationship with Nietzsche.

The reason I like Nietzsche is because he is very good at pointing out the logical flaws in modern thinking (David Hume is like this as well). He shows that by abandoning parts of Christianity you don’t like (claims to divinity, existence of God, etc.), you ultimately lose all of it, including parts you do like (ā€œlove your neighbor as yourselfā€). Thus, he tossed me out of secular humanism, and showed me how much of a parasitical philosophy it really is.

The reason I hate Nietzsche is because even though he realizes that secular humanism, materialistic atheism and the like are just prolonging the inevitable (nihilism), he then goes on to accept the inevitable, but tries to use it to ā€œbreed the next evolution of manā€, the superman, who doesn’t need religion, morality, metaphysics, or meaning in order to live. Obviously Nietzsche never progressed to become the superman 🤷 I haven’t either, and he threw me into a depression of sorts. Never read Nietzsche until you’re older and know better šŸ˜›
Haha but thanks for clearing that up-it initially it appeared that you were advocating an deductive approach which I think would betray your natural intellectual capacities.
Thank you for your complement. Suddenly everyone’s complementing me, and I think it’s starting to go to my head 😊 I’m still trying to lose my pride and learn that my parents aren’t idiots 😃 St. Augustine warns us about how terrible intellectual pride is.
When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much he had learned in seven years.
-Mark Twain
Hermeticism: There are many parallels between Hermeticism and Gnosticism. From a psychological point of view Hermes represents consciousness. Consciousness originates from a combination of our inherent divinity (Herme’s father Zeus) and its combination with the world (his grandfather Atlas). Also, if you examine the baffling and paradoxical characteristics that Hermes possesses, you will find that it mirrors many of the qualities of the human mind.
I ask this because Hermeticism is like the mish-mash of Western mysticism throughout history. I know St. Augustine and St Thomas thought of Hermes as a ā€œwise pagan.ā€
Astrology: I believe astrology to be a potent allegorical, alchemical force that mirrors much of the activity of the psyche. However as gnosisofthomas stated in a previous post, once one accepts Christ as the embodiment of truth, astrology plays no role in the decision of our fate.
Do you believe in ā€œas above, so belowā€ ? Or maybe you believe Christ reversed it: ā€œas below, so aboveā€ ?
Theurgy: Although I am an independent practitioner, and do not participate in any rituals, I have been convinced through writings of Jung, Charles Leadbeater, and the Theosophists that there is indeed some sort of magical conjuring of divinity associated with certain rituals.
So, is the divinity conjured external (outside the practitioners) or internal (from within the practitioners) ?
Giordano Bruno: I am not too familiar with him-wasn’t he a Copernican astronomer?
I wouldn’t call him a astronomer, but rather a mystic with a hack of using Copernicus to support his ideas. If you don’t know him don’t waste your time reading him, unless you want to learn about the history of the time period. Just as New Age is to quantum physics, so Bruno is to Copernicus. He was influenced by Hermeticism and Gnostic thought though.

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
It sounds like you are saying: Ultimately, one should not establish opinions based solely on an authoritative body, even in cases where doctrinal differences occur due to multiple opinions, i.e. in the end, at least within Christendom, there is no definitive authority, other than scripture?
Even scripture is not definitive authority-authoritative bodies are helpful in giving us a conceptual context in which to frame our beliefs/opinions. However, the ultimate authority is personal intuition which is where I believe this debate begun haha.

On the note of scripture, it is useful to note that many Gnostics have disagreements on how to interpret scripture-but none of these branches (if they are authentic) claim that these interpretations are incorrect as long as they are arrived at by personal experience
 
I don’t think there is as big of a disagreement gap between us as there may appear. We just have different opinions on whether authority or intuition should be subordinate in determining truth. I have no problem with striving to see whether one’s conclusions line up with an authority or already existing mode of thought (this is clear by the fact that I identify myself as a Gnostic), but I don’t believe that ultimately one should mold their opinions around said authority/doctrine.
When many people convert to Catholicism, they sometimes tell me about how they read the Bible, and based on their understanding of it, looked for the religion that best conforms to it (the Bible teaches the Trinity, the Catholic Church teaches the Trinity, therefore the Catholic Church is right). I never ā€œconvertedā€ like that (I was technically raised Roman Catholic). I don’t consider Scripture as anything other than a collection of texts with some historical value by itself. I never assumed Scripture was infallible a priori. Instead, I asked, what is the philosophic view of Christianity? I was raised in an educational environment that if (non-political) philosophy was even discussed, other then the curiosities of Plato and Aristotle (which were often butchered anyway), only philosophers Descartes on were of any value. When I started contemplating the philosophical views of Aristotle, I realized that I always believed in the ā€œunmoved moverā€ argument unconsciously. I then ran into this guy named Thomas Aquinas. It is from his writings, as well as some of contemporary Thomists who adapted his philosophy to modern understandings, that I realized the correct way to approach the world.

The biggest problems for my soul now was accepting the authority of the Catholic Church, and some emotional problems (our culture is very anti-Catholic, and I am very sensitive to other people. Remember: no one is convinced of something by pure intellect. Aristotle says we are persuaded in three ways: intellectually, emotionally, and ethically/culturally). I, like many Modern Americans, am very skeptical of authority, especially one that from the outside, looks like a monarchy (only recently has the Pope stop wearing his crown). Curiously, unlike many of my peers, I have never had a problem with Catholic moral teaching, I have always been pro-life and I was apathetic to gay ā€œmarriageā€ (no one disagrees with the Church on issues such as insider trading and nuclear war, but when it comes to sex, the Church is obviously outdated :rolleyes: ).

My studies of Second Temple Judaism and early Church history (St. Ignatius, St. Justin, St. Irenaeus, etc.) led me to abandon any hope of Protestantism, and since I started cleaning my mind of modern philosophy, as well as learning how Logic works, I began to agree with the Christian view of the world (I want to emphasize how much the Judo-Christian understanding of Tradition differs from our Western view today: we Westerners sort of downplay oral tradition and eyewitnesses, even though there isn’t much evidence against them: I think the denial of eyewitnesses in particular is why many moderns deny miracles). But it would be modern thinkers such as Lewis and Chesterton that would really get me into the Christian view of things, and I finally accepted that the Christian story in history was correct.

Now, Christians from the very beginning taught that the Apostle’s Successors were the Bishops. My problem then became a choice between Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic Christianity, etc., since all these Churches can trace Apostolic lineage to the first century. I was tempted greatly to join the Orthodox, because again, they sort of believe in a confederation of Bishops, rather than the Catholic Church, which again, looks like a monarchy (I had big problems with papal infallibility also). However, the deal breaker for me was the fact that the Orthodox can’t give me a historical, objective definition on what an Ecumenical Council is. The Catholics can. I learned that Papal Infallibility is not something like a dictatorship, but rather the logical conclusion of sorts from the College of Bishops being infallible. I actually learned this from looking at the posts of a Coptic Catholic on this website by the username of Mardukm (this is how I found this site). Thank you Mardukm! (maybe he’ll see this šŸ™‚ ). Furthermore, the Orthodox are ethical Churches (my father’s family is traditionally Ukrainian Orthodox/Catholic), and sort of ignore any Christian who has viewpoints that aren’t 100% Orthodox to them. The Catholic Church, on the other hand, tries to find the truth even in heretics! (we teach that most Protestant Baptisms are valid, and that Orthodox sacraments are valid, for example. Pope Benedict XVI actually uses a quote from the ā€œGospel of Thomasā€ in his book Jesus of Nazareth to support orthodox positions. Maybe the ā€œGospel of Thomasā€ accidently includes misinterpreted oral teachings from Jesus, since even some of the Fathers quote Jesus saying phrases that don’t appear in the Four Gospels :hmmm: ).

This is when I accepted the Church, and I’ve been trying to sanctify myself since. The Church has challenged me and continues to do so on every single level: physical, philosophical, historical, emotional, etc. I didn’t come because it ā€œfeltā€ right to me, I came because it shows itself to be an authority. The Saints say that the best way to learn humility and get to Heaven is to learn obedience. If the Church is Christ’s Body still on Earth, then shouldn’t we expect Christ to still speak through it? How can we say to obey God if we disobey His Church, His Body? You said you were raised Catholic: why did it fall out of favor for you?

Christi pax,

Lucretius
 
Never read Nietzsche until you’re older and know better šŸ˜›

Do you believe in ā€œas above, so belowā€ ? Or maybe you believe Christ reversed it: ā€œas below, so aboveā€ ?

So, is the divinity conjured external (outside the practitioners) or internal (from within the practitioners) ?

Christi pax,

Lucretius
Totally agree about Nietzsche. I think Aristotle’s statement about not studying philosophy until youre 30 should be revised to say don’t read Nietzsche until youre 30 haha.

I wholeheartedly agree with the statement ā€œas above, so below.ā€ Whatever happens on a macrocosmic level also occurs on the microcosmic level because for the Gnostic, the universe is seen to be an emanation from one’s psyche which is the substratum.

It is my understanding that in theurgical rituals, divinity is projected outwards from individuals into a collectively larger divine experience. Remember when i said that every individual has what is terminologically known as a ā€˜divine spark’ within them? Well, when a group of people get together to perform these rituals, the sparks combine to form a metaphorical flame. As a matter of fact, Gnostics believe that this magical experience is what happens during a Eucharistic ceremony in a Catholic mass (however, it is also believed that this type of spiritual experience was a lot more common in the traditional mass as opposed to post-Vatican II, which we see as a watered down form of this traditional sacred experience).
 
Even scripture is not definitive authority-authoritative bodies are helpful in giving us a conceptual context in which to frame our beliefs/opinions. However, the ultimate authority is personal intuition which is where I believe this debate begun haha.

On the note of scripture, it is useful to note that many Gnostics have disagreements on how to interpret scripture-but none of these branches (if they are authentic) claim that these interpretations are incorrect as long as they are arrived at by personal experience
The ultimate authority is personal intuition i.e. the ultimate authority belongs to each and every person in the world, within the Christian sphere that is? You definitily get points for originally brother. LOL:)
 
Lucretius
I think the denial of eyewitnesses in particular is why many moderns deny miracles). But it would be modern thinkers such as Lewis and Chesterton that would really get me into the Christian view of things, and I finally accepted that the Christian story in history was correct.
Christi pax,
Lucretius
I agree, which is why I always ask my atheist/protestant friends what they think in terms of the validity of Fatima, (thousands of eyewitnesses), and this is a modern-day miracle. I never really get an answer. I was blown away by these events. There is a movie I recently watch called the 13th day; I highly recommend it; check it out. The story is told from the memoirs of the main seer. However, I digress; I don’t want to derail the thread: the13thday.com/
 
When many people convert to Catholicism, they sometimes tell me about how they read the Bible, and based on their understanding of it, looked for the religion that best conforms to it (the Bible teaches the Trinity, the Catholic Church teaches the Trinity, therefore the Catholic Church is right). I never ā€œconvertedā€ like that (I was technically raised Roman Catholic). I don’t consider Scripture as anything other than a collection of texts with some historical value by itself. I never assumed Scripture was infallible a priori. Instead, I asked, what is the philosophic view of Christianity? I was raised in an educational environment that if (non-political) philosophy was even discussed, other then the curiosities of Plato and Aristotle (which were often butchered anyway), only philosophers Descartes on were of any value. When I started contemplating the philosophical views of Aristotle, I realized that I always believed in the ā€œunmoved moverā€ argument unconsciously. I then ran into this guy named Thomas Aquinas. It is from his writings, as well as some of contemporary Thomists who adapted his philosophy to modern understandings, that I realized the correct way to approach the world.

The biggest problems for my soul now was accepting the authority of the Catholic Church, and some emotional problems (our culture is very anti-Catholic, and I am very sensitive to other people. Remember: no one is convinced of something by pure intellect. Aristotle says we are persuaded in three ways: intellectually, emotionally, and ethically/culturally). I, like many Modern Americans, am very skeptical of authority, especially one that from the outside, looks like a monarchy (only recently has the Pope stop wearing his crown). Curiously, unlike many of my peers, I have never had a problem with Catholic moral teaching, I have always been pro-life and I was apathetic to gay ā€œmarriageā€ (no one disagrees with the Church on issues such as insider trading and nuclear war, but when it comes to sex, the Church is obviously outdated :rolleyes: ).

My studies of Second Temple Judaism and early Church history (St. Ignatius, St. Justin, St. Irenaeus, etc.) led me to abandon any hope of Protestantism, and since I started cleaning my mind of modern philosophy, as well as learning how Logic works, I began to agree with the Christian view of the world (I want to emphasize how much the Judo-Christian understanding of Tradition differs from our Western view today: we Westerners sort of downplay oral tradition and eyewitnesses, even though there isn’t much evidence against them: I think the denial of eyewitnesses in particular is why many moderns deny miracles). But it would be modern thinkers such as Lewis and Chesterton that would really get me into the Christian view of things, and I finally accepted that the Christian story in history was correct.

Now, Christians from the very beginning taught that the Apostle’s Successors were the Bishops. My problem then became a choice between Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, Coptic Christianity, etc., since all these Churches can trace Apostolic lineage to the first century. I was tempted greatly to join the Orthodox, because again, they sort of believe in a confederation of Bishops, rather than the Catholic Church, which again, looks like a monarchy (I had big problems with papal infallibility also). However, the deal breaker for me was the fact that the Orthodox can’t give me a historical, objective definition on what an Ecumenical Council is. The Catholics can. I learned that Papal Infallibility is not something like a dictatorship, but rather the logical conclusion of sorts from the College of Bishops being infallible. I actually learned this from looking at the posts of a Coptic Catholic on this website by the username of Mardukm (this is how I found this site). Thank you Mardukm! (maybe he’ll see this šŸ™‚ ). Furthermore, the Orthodox are ethical Churches (my father’s family is traditionally Ukrainian Orthodox/Catholic), and sort of ignore any Christian who has viewpoints that aren’t 100% Orthodox to them. The Catholic Church, on the other hand, tries to find the truth even in heretics! (we teach that most Protestant Baptisms are valid, and that Orthodox sacraments are valid, for example. Pope Benedict XVI actually uses a quote from the ā€œGospel of Thomasā€ in his book Jesus of Nazareth to support orthodox positions. Maybe the ā€œGospel of Thomasā€ accidently includes misinterpreted oral teachings from Jesus, since even some of the Fathers quote Jesus saying phrases that don’t appear in the Four Gospels :hmmm: ).

This is when I accepted the Church, and I’ve been trying to sanctify myself since. The Church has challenged me and continues to do so on every single level: physical, philosophical, historical, emotional, etc. I didn’t come because it ā€œfeltā€ right to me, I came because it shows itself to be an authority. The Saints say that the best way to learn humility and get to Heaven is to learn obedience. If the Church is Christ’s Body still on Earth, then shouldn’t we expect Christ to still speak through it? How can we say to obey God if we disobey His Church, His Body? You said you were raised Catholic: why did it fall out of favor for you?

Christi pax,

Lucretius
Thanks for telling me the condensed story of your faith! I can tell that your beliefs are authentic because you arrived at the conclusion that the Catholic Church is the true representation of Christ on earth because you arrived at that conclusion via inductive reasoning (not to take the emotional element out of it). I cannot question anything youve written-except…you said you were apathetic to the question of gay marriage. Are you still? I ask not because I want this thread to devolve into political banter, but because the Magisterium has taken an official position on that issue. Doesn’t that kind of force you to also?
 
You said you were raised Catholic: why did it fall out of favor for you?

Christi pax,

Lucretius
The question at the end of my last post transitions nicely into why i left the church which I can boil down to four main reasons:
  1. I believe in the separation of morality and religion. I dislike the heavy emphasis on the pro-life, chastity, etc. agenda of the church-not that these issues shouldn’t be important to people if they feel strongly one way or the other. Just that it doesn’t enhance my spiritual experience as these are things concerned with the body and not the spirit. I know the Catholic Church sees the two as interconnected but I disagree.
  2. As we have exhausted in this thread, I see personal intuition as a better litmus test for spiritual truth than an authoritative institution.
  3. I have always been attracted to the traditional Latin Mass and was put off by the protestant influences that I see present in many post-Vatican II churches. At the same time, I reject the anti-ecumenical theology of the traditional church. This is a brief explanation of this point.
  4. As I stated at the beginning of the thread, I view Original Sin as an absurd answer to the question of evil.
 
Totally agree about Nietzsche. I think Aristotle’s statement about not studying philosophy until youre 30 should be revised to say don’t read Nietzsche until youre 30 haha.
It’s good that we agree on something šŸ‘
As a matter of fact, Gnostics believe that this magical experience is what happens during a Eucharistic ceremony in a Catholic mass (however, it is also believed that this type of spiritual experience was a lot more common in the traditional mass as opposed to post-Vatican II, which we see as a watered down form of this traditional sacred experience).
Wait a second! Gnostics are against the Novus Orde Mass? :frighten: The Ultra-Traditionalists agree with the GNOSTICS?!?! :bigyikes: I have to run to my secret bunker, now I know it’s the end of the world! HEY EVERYONE, JESUS IS COMING SOON! RUN TO CONFESSION RIGHT NOW! :gopray: :gopray2: :signofcross:

(That was an excuse to put up a whole bunch of smilies, btw. If only I were a new member: I could put more).

Alas, can you tell me how you would define magic?

Christi pax,

Lucretius :blessyou:

P.S. I regret to inform you, but your opinions don’t matter, 'cause I’m so cool, and Gnosticism is so droll:
since it’s so…pre-Vatican II :rolleyes: Get with the times!
 
The ultimate authority is personal intuition i.e. the ultimate authority belongs to each and every person in the world, within the Christian sphere that is? You definitily get points for originally brother. LOL:)
Not exactly how I would word it, but yes I suppose that is essentially true. And im not just pulling this stuff out of thin air. All Gnostic Christians believe this as well as many outside of the Christian sphere in other religions. So I don’t deserve the credit of originality that you so kindly flatter me with šŸ˜‰
 
Thanks for telling me the condensed story of your faith! I can tell that your beliefs are authentic because you arrived at the conclusion that the Catholic Church is the true representation of Christ on earth because you arrived at that conclusion via inductive reasoning (not to take the emotional element out of it). I cannot question anything youve written-except…you said you were apathetic to the question of gay marriage. Are you still? I ask not because I want this thread to devolve into political banter, but because the Magisterium has taken an official position on that issue. Doesn’t that kind of force you to also?
There has always been an official teaching on the issue? Are you referring to the Pope’s recent comment: ā€œWhen I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn’t be marginalized. The tendency [to homosexuality] is not the problem…they’re our brothersā€?
 
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