Ask a Gnostic

[gnosisofthomas]

First of all, what exactly is the role of Sophia in Gnosticism? I know that she’s viewed as the creator of the demiurge, but other than that I don’t know much.

I can’t remember if I explained who She is either, haha! She’s one of the emanations of God, the youngest aeon. In Gnostic cosmogony, you have the Unknown Father who emanates or brings forth aspects of Himself. These emanations are called aeons, and collectively they make up the Pleroma (which means Fullness). They aren’t created ex nihilo, but are poured forth from the Father. The number of aeons varies from book to book (the Valentinians listed 30), but each aeon exists in masculine/feminine pairs – called “syzygies”. Sophia, the Wisdom of God, is the last aeon emanated, and in Her desire to know Her Source, She emanated on Her own without the cooperation of Her masculine counterpart, which resulted in an imperfect emanation called Yaldabaoth, the demiurge.

She then gets basically split in two, because part of Her power is passed into Yaldabaoth, and ultimately into his creation. The higher Sophia in the Pleroma, and the lower Sophia in the world of the demiurge. Christ, containing the Fullness, is the mediator between the higher and lower Sophia, and He’s sent to rescue Her. Her story is also the story of our own souls, and how we came be stuck here in the world. She calls out to the Father to rescue Her, and so Christ is sent to redeem Her (and us) to restore the Fullness to the aeons.

Second, I once read somewhere that Sophia entered into Mary in order to give birth to Jesus through her. Is this a Gnostic belief? I really don’t remember where I read this.

I’ve never heard that before… There’s nothing in scripture that indicates Sophia ever incarnated on earth. There are some New Agey groups that call themselves gnostic, and they might teach this idea, but it isn’t a concept that’s attested to by ancient Gnostics.

Third, I know there’s some people out there who equate Sophia with the Holy Spirit. Is this compatible with Gnosticism, or is it more of a result of people trying to bring the feminine divine back to Christianity?

That’s a tricky one because Sophia is part of the Fullness of God, and the persons of the Trinity are One God – so in that sense, Sophia one of the aeons that emanates from the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit and Sophia are distinct concepts. The Holy Spirit is viewed as feminine by Gnostics though… The Coptic and Greek words for “Spirit” are grammatically feminine, so Gnostic writings often played on that and used feminine imagery when talking about the Holy Spirit, just as the Wisdom literature in the Bible plays on the grammatically feminine quality of Wisdom (Sophia). There’s also Barbelo, or Forethought, who was the first emanation of God. She’s also feminine, and it was through the cooperation of Father and His Forethought that the other aeons were brought forth. I’m not sure if any of that makes sense… It’s late and I should be in bed.

 

[gnosisofthomas]

I dont’ know if Gnosticism even has a sin concept.

We do have the concept of sin, but sin is a result of the imperfection of our nature in this world. That quote from the Gospel of Mary explains it pretty well: you make sin when you commit acts of evil. Sin doesn’t exist itself, rather we cause sin to exist because we’re imperfect. If we all had the Gnosis of our true nature and existed in perfection, there would be no sin.

Christ came to redeem us from our imperfection so that we would know our origin in God, and thus would sin no more.

 

[someperson555]

im reading the posts on this thread. and from what gnosisofthomis is saying, i cant help notice that gnosticism is influenced by Buddhist spirituality.
Budddhism teaches that the highest thing to atttain is to be reincarnated as a god (a spiritual being), and according to Buddhism this can only occur if the person becomes what they call a “bikkhu”, a person who practices rigid asceticism. he does this so he may be set free from any attachment to worldly pleasures. in the buddhist view, it is the degree of attachment to worldy pleasures which determines what a person will be reincarnated as.
correct me if im wrong, but gnosticism pretty much teaches the same thing, no? in the gnostc view, Jesus incarnated into flesh inorder to show us how to transcend the material world and become spiritual being.
now obvoiusly both buddhist and gnostic teachings are similar to catholic teaching. but upon closer examination youll notice where they differ. catholics as opposed to gnostics and buddhists dont regard the body as “evil” or “unnatural”. in fact in catholic teaching the body is held in high esteem. according to catholic teaching, the material world wa created by God and therefore is good. physical pleasure is good too. obviously the body has a special place in creation. therefore its not absurd to assume that in heaven we will continue to have physical pleasures such as sex and food or something similar.
another big difference i noticed between gnostic christianity and catholicism, is that gnostics view salvation as an “accomplishment”, whereas catholics view it as grace. and i think that is one of the biggest differences between the two religions. according to us catholics, the most necessary thing for salvation is love. its not ascetic practices or secret knowledge…

 

[Candescent]

.

I believe that part of the apostles’ teachings would have included the inner teachings taught to them by Jesus. They likely would have passed these on to a select few who were able to comprehend them, just as Christ revealed them to people when they were ready. But even those would probably start to differ from group to group, as time went on – just like the telephone game! Eventually the inner teachings were rejected by the church that gained the most power and influence in the Christian world.

.

Do you believe that your church has these inner teachings? Can you be more specific about what you think that they are?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

We do have the concept of sin, but sin is a result of the imperfection of our nature in this world. That quote from the Gospel of Mary explains it pretty well: you make sin when you commit acts of evil. Sin doesn’t exist itself, rather we cause sin to exist because we’re imperfect. If we all had the Gnosis of our true nature and existed in perfection, there would be no sin.

Christ came to redeem us from our imperfection so that we would know our origin in God, and thus would sin no more.

In Matthew 5.48, Jesus said, “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.” The simple key to understanding what perfection is lies in the very same passage. In verses 44 and 45, Jesus said, “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; that ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven.”

Perfection is love; it is love that reaches even to the believer’s enemies. 1 John 4.8 says that God is love; therefore, when the believer is filled with love, he is filled with God. This is the prize of the Christian. Is not perfection the fulfillment of the Law and the prophets? In Matthew 22.37-40, Jesus said, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
(from heavenlymanna.net/christianArticle.php?article_id=120)

I don’t think you need to read the Gnostic gospels to understand what Jesus said. Jesus was very clear and simple in his teachings. That is why Christianity is so appealing to all people, whether they are learned or simple. I have found the Gnostic gospels to be very obtuse and hard to understand, (and a little kooky!) unlike the gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John.

 

[gnosisofthomas]

im reading the posts on this thread. and from what gnosisofthomis is saying, i cant help notice that gnosticism is influenced by Buddhist spirituality.
Budddhism teaches that the highest thing to atttain is to be reincarnated as a god (a spiritual being), and according to Buddhism this can only occur if the person becomes what they call a “bikkhu”, a person who practices rigid asceticism. he does this so he may be set free from any attachment to worldly pleasures. in the buddhist view, it is the degree of attachment to worldy pleasures which determines what a person will be reincarnated as.
correct me if im wrong, but gnosticism pretty much teaches the same thing, no? in the gnostc view, Jesus incarnated into flesh inorder to show us how to transcend the material world and become spiritual being.

I can see similarities between Gnosticism and Buddhism, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say it was influenced by Buddhist thought. There are some (particularly New Agers) who say that Jesus was trained by Buddhists… But I don’t think there’s any evidence for this. The similarity may be nothing more than coincidence. As far as I know, the Buddhist idea of reincarnation is that the soul transmigrates into another human body, so you don’t really get reincarnated as a god, so much as you get liberated from the cycle of reincarnation. There’s much debate on whether (all) Gnostics believed in reincarnation, but again, I can see a similarity. The goal of the Gnostic is to be liberated from the control of the demiurge, and return to his/her source in the Fullness of God. Christ came to show us our divine origins, so that we could return to our source.

now obvoiusly both buddhist and gnostic teachings are similar to catholic teaching. but upon closer examination youll notice where they differ. catholics as opposed to gnostics and buddhists dont regard the body as “evil” or “unnatural”. in fact in catholic teaching the body is held in high esteem. according to catholic teaching, the material world wa created by God and therefore is good. physical pleasure is good too. obviously the body has a special place in creation. therefore its not absurd to assume that in heaven we will continue to have physical pleasures such as sex and food or something similar.
another big difference i noticed between gnostic christianity and catholicism, is that gnostics view salvation as an “accomplishment”, whereas catholics view it as grace. and i think that is one of the biggest differences between the two religions. according to us catholics, the most necessary thing for salvation is love. its not ascetic practices or secret knowledge…

I can’t emphasize this enough, but Gnostics don’t see the body as evil. It’s imperfect, but that’s not quite the same thing. In fact, I think the orthodox teaching has a more negative view of physical existence than Gnostics, because orthodox Christians feel that man brought evil into the world through a sinful act, and had to be save from that sin. Gnostics don’t believe that at all. I think the idea that Gnostics see the body as evil is nothing more than a misunderstanding of Gnosticism that’s been passed down through the centuries, and I’m really interesting in reading a source for the reason for that claim. Gnostic scripture has a very positive view of the body, since it’s seen as yet another emanation of God, and a tool for Gnosis.

Scripture tells us not to go to one extreme or the other: “Fear not the flesh nor love it. If you fear it, it will gain mastery over you. If you love it, it will swallow and paralyze you” (Gospel of Philip).

We also believe that salvation is a grace, it’s not an accomplishment. It’s through the grace of God that we can know Him. The Gospel of Philip also speaks of the necessity of love (along with the other theological virtues) on the path of Gnosis:

Farming in the world requires the cooperation of four essential elements. A harvest is gathered into the barn only as a result of the natural action of water, earth, wind and light. God’s farming likewise has four elements: faith, hope, love, and knowledge. Faith is our earth, that in which we take root. And hope is the water through which we are nourished. Love is the wind through which we grow. Knowledge, then, is the light through which we ripen.

Gnosis is a path to salvation, and without love we can never grow in Gnosis. The Gospel of Thomas tells us that the Kingdom of Heaven is spread out upon the earth, and if that’s true, then we can’t help but love our fellow man.

Let us love one another; for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God, and hath Gnosis. But one who does not love, knows not God, for God is love.

 

[gnosisofthomas]

Do you believe that your church has these inner teachings? Can you be more specific about what you think that they are?

Not only my church, but any church that acknowledges the Gnostic scriptures are just as valid as the biblical scriptures. These inner teachings are contained in the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, the Gospel of Truth, the Apocryphon of John, the Pistis Sophia, and many other texts. They help guide the way on the path of Gnosis, but ultimately, it’s *experience *that will liberate you from the control of the demiurge!

 

[Vouthon]

These inner teachings

Dear brother Thomas

But what of the “orthodox” gnostic (knowledge) tradition? From the earliest days certain believers claimed to have been given direct, intuitive knowledge of spiritual things. Saint Paul spoke of being raptured into the third heaven. This experience was developed upon by later orthodox Catholic mystics who took up the interior, spiritual experiences spoken of by the Fathers and early monastics.

A key difference I suppose is that Christian gnosis is never “elitist” in the sense that is open to anyone whom God in his grace chooses to reveal Himself. The height of Christian perfection is to become god by grace as He is by nature, to share in the Divine Nature, and we are all called to this supreme state.

Gnosticism comes from the greek word “Gnosis” meaning “knowledge”. This word is used in the New Testament, most prominently by Paul. The Greek word “Pleroma” means “Fullness.” It refers to the totality of Divine Power. It’s used generally in Gnosticism, and also by St. Paul in Colossians 2:9, who was an orthodox gnostic par excellence.

For example a Coptic Orthodox website explains when discussing “authentic gnosis”:

The title “Gnostic” does not refer to a heretic but to the orthodox Christian who attains the divine gnosis (knowledge) from the Holy Spirit, by illumination through Christ (the Logos) in the light of the tradition of the church.

Gnosticism, to my understanding, isn’t a uniform phenomenon or system of belief. There developed many strands in the second century, of which an orthodox Gnosticism [the earliest form in my humble opinion] thrived in the early Church. This orthodox form is what we call nowadays (post-first millenium) “Catholic mysticism” whether Eastern or Western.

Jesus explained the very essence of Gnosticism when he said:

“…The knowledge [gnosis] of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you…”

• Jesus Christ (13:11)

As such there is an “orthodox Gnostic” tradition in Christianity. Saint Clement of Alexandria, Saint Justin Martyr, Origen and Saint Jerome to name a few, were all loyal orthodox Catholics and Gnostics.

As an example Saint Clement, an important early Church Father.

Here is Pope Benedict XVI’s description of his Gnosticism:

"…This knowledge, Clement tells us, becomes for the soul a lived reality: It is not just a theory. Rather, it is a life force, a union with a transforming love. The knowledge of Christ is not just a thought, but a love that opens the eyes, transforms the person and creates communion with the “Logos,” the divine Word that is truth and life. In this communion, which is the perfect knowledge and is love, the perfect Christian reaches contemplation and union with God.

In this way, on the journey to perfection, Clement gives the same importance to moral requirements as to the intellectual ones. The two go together because it is not possible to know the truth without living it, nor to live the truth without knowing it. It is not possible to make oneself like God and contemplate him simply with a rational knowledge: In order to achieve this objective, it is necessary to live according to the “Logos,” a life according to truth. And, therefore, good works have to accompany intellectual knowledge, as the shadow accompanies the body.

There are two virtues which particularly adorn the soul of the “authentic gnostic.” The first is freedom from passions (“apátheia”); the second is love, the true passion, which ensures intimate union with God. Love gives perfect peace, and enables the “authentic gnostic” to confront the greatest sacrifices, including the supreme sacrifice in the following of Christ…"

Read:

The writings of St. Clement reveal that he was sincere in studying contemporary culture, while his heart was inflamed with divine love…As he loved the true gnosis (knowledge) he desired every Christian to be a true Gnostic. His Christology, therefore, concentrates on the redeeming work of Christ as the Light, Who shines upon our minds, that they might be illuminated, and he calls baptism “illumination.” In the Protrepticus he calls men to accept our Lord Jesus, saying, “The Logos is not hidden from any one. He is the general Light, who shines upon all. Therefore there is no darkness in the world. May we hurry to attain our salvation. May we hurry to attain our renewal.”…St. Clement and his disciple Origen were optimistic. His optimistic attitude is very clear in his writings which concentrate on the following points:
I. The first and greatest lesson for the Gnostic or the true believer is to know himself, for thus not only he knows God whose joyful kingdom is within him, but also he will be in His likeness.
II. His theology concentrates on the unceasingly inner renewal realized by the Holy Spirit who deified the believers.

“…The summit of faith, is the knowledge (gnosis) itself, for which all the organs of perception exist…The primacy of knowledge the apostle shows to those capable of reflection…he teaches that knowledge (gnosis), which is the perfection of faith, goes beyond catechetical instruction, in accordance with the magnitude of the Lord’s teaching and the rule of the Church…The Instructor, divided by us into three books, has already exhibited the training and nurture up from the state of childhood, that is, the course of life which from elementary instruction grows by faith; and in the case of those enrolled in the number of men, prepares beforehand the soul, endued with virtue, for the reception of Gnostic knowledge. And the gnosis itself is that which has descended by transmission to a few, having been imparted unwritten by the apostles…”

- Saint Clement of Alexandria (c. 150 - c. 220), Early Catholic Church father

 

[CopticChristian]

10236826]I can see similarities between Gnosticism and Buddhism, but I wouldn’t go so far as to say it was influenced by Buddhist thought. There are some (particularly New Agers) who say that Jesus was trained by Buddhists… But I don’t think there’s any evidence for this. The similarity may be nothing more than coincidence. As far as I know, the Buddhist idea of reincarnation is that the soul transmigrates into another human body, so you don’t really get reincarnated as a god, so much as you get liberated from the cycle of reincarnation. There’s much debate on whether (all) Gnostics believed in reincarnation, but again, I can see a similarity. The goal of the Gnostic is to be liberated from the control of the demiurge, and return to his/her source in the Fullness of God. Christ came to show us our divine origins, so that we could return to our source.

now obvoiusly both buddhist and gnostic teachings are similar to catholic teaching. but upon closer examination youll notice where they differ. catholics as opposed to gnostics and buddhists dont regard the body as “evil” or “unnatural”. in fact in catholic teaching the body is held in high esteem. according to catholic teaching, the material world wa created by God and therefore is good. physical pleasure is good too. obviously the body has a special place in creation. therefore its not absurd to assume that in heaven we will continue to have physical pleasures such as sex and food or something similar.
another big difference i noticed between gnostic christianity and catholicism, is that gnostics view salvation as an “accomplishment”, whereas catholics view it as grace. and i think that is one of the biggest differences between the two religions. according to us catholics, the most necessary thing for salvation is love. its not ascetic practices or secret knowledge…

I can’t emphasize this enough, but Gnostics don’t see the body as evil. It’s imperfect, but that’s not quite the same thing. In fact, I think the orthodox teaching has a more negative view of physical existence than Gnostics, because orthodox Christians feel that man brought evil into the world through a sinful act, and had to be save from that sin. Gnostics don’t believe that at all. I think the idea that Gnostics see the body as evil is nothing more than a misunderstanding of Gnosticism that’s been passed down through the centuries, and I’m really interesting in reading a source for the reason for that claim. Gnostic scripture has a very positive view of the body, since it’s seen as yet another emanation of God, and a tool for Gnosis.

Scripture tells us not to go to one extreme or the other: “Fear not the flesh nor love it. If you fear it, it will gain mastery over you. If you love it, it will swallow and paralyze you” (Gospel of Philip).
We also believe that salvation is a grace, it’s not an accomplishment. It’s through the grace of God that we can know Him. The Gospel of Philip also speaks of the necessity of love (along with the other theological virtues) on the path of Gnosis:

**Gnosis is a path to salvation, and without love we can never grow in Gnosis. The Gospel of Thomas tells us that the Kingdom of Heaven is spread out upon the earth, and if that’s true, then we can’t help but love our fellow man./**QUOTE]

Gnostic one,

The OHCAC does not accept the Gospel of Philip as Scripture. It is a writing you refer to however no Christian accepts this as Scripture.

Your Gnostic view of salvation is by “knowing” not through Christ and is not consistent with the Apostolic deposit of Faith. The Gospel of Thomas is not Scripture.

 

[CopticChristian]

Not only my church, but any church that acknowledges the Gnostic scriptures are just as valid as the biblical scriptures. These inner teachings are contained in the Gospel of Thomas, the Gospel of Philip, the Gospel of Truth, the Apocryphon of John, the Pistis Sophia, and many other texts. They help guide the way on the path of Gnosis, but ultimately, it’s *experience *that will liberate you from the control of the demiurge!

Gnostic one,

The OHCAC recognizes those Baptized in the trinitarian formula as truly Christian. Your ecclesia gnostica website has a Catechism found here…

gnosis.org/ecclesia/catechism.htm#LESSON IX

1. Which is the first initiatory sacrament?

It is the sacrament of Baptism, also known as the Baptism of Water because it employs water.

1. At what age should one receive the sacrament of Baptism?

Preferably when one has reached the age of reason, but infant Baptisms, using a simpler formula, are permissible.

1. What are the effects of the sacrament of Baptism?

Baptism liberates the body (SOMA) and soul (PSYCHE) from the dominion of the Archons, under which they fell at physical birth. (This perilous condition is called “original sin” by the exoteric church.) Baptism also washes away actual faults which the person may have committed prior to baptism. Baptism also joins an angel to the baptized soul, and facilitates the entry and exit of the soul from the body. It is this sacrament that affords us entry into the stream of Gnosis.

It does not say that Baptism is in the trinitarian formula. Is Baptism in the Ecclesia Gnostica in the trinitarian formula?

 

[CopticChristian]

Do you believe that your church has these inner teachings? Can you be more specific about what you think that they are?

Candescent,

The Gnostic one has referenced Ecclesia Gnostica, as I understand it the Gnostic one is a subdeacon…this site is the site for the Catechism of beliefs and there you will find and read the specifics.

gnosis.org/ecclesia/catechism.htm#LESSON IX

 

[gnosisofthomas]

Dear brother Thomas

But what of the “orthodox” gnostic (knowledge) tradition?

Dear Vouthon,

I have to get ready for Mass, and then we have another prayer service this evening, so I won’t have much time to respond to your post today – But, I wanted to thank you for the information you provided! It sounds like the orthodox understanding of Gnosis is basically the same as ours.

I did have at least one question, but I need to hop in the shower so I’m not late for church. I’ll try to respond in more detail this evening.

Thanks!

 

[CopticChristian]

Dear Vouthon,

I have to get ready for Mass, and then we have another prayer service this evening, so I won’t have much time to respond to your post today – But, I wanted to thank you for the information you provided! It sounds like the orthodox understanding of Gnosis is basically the same as ours.

I did have at least one question, but I need to hop in the shower so I’m not late for church. I’ll try to respond in more detail this evening.

Thanks!

Gnostic one,

Note that the notion of Orthodox gnosis is through Christ in the tradition of the Church…not any church…not any community…but a specific community…that acknowledges Christ as saviour and acknowledges that there was disobedience and obedience in the context of the Sacrifice of Christ.

 

[gnosisofthomas]

The OHCAC does not accept the Gospel of Philip as Scripture. It is a writing you refer to however no Christian accepts this as Scripture.

This thread is called “Ask a Gnostic”, and Gnostics accept the Gospel of Philip… So at least part of the OHCAC accepts it as scripture.

Your Gnostic view of salvation is by “knowing” not through Christ and is not consistent with the Apostolic deposit of Faith. The Gospel of Thomas is not Scripture.

You misunderstand what that “knowing” is if you think it isn’t through Christ. The Gospel of Thomas is scripture. I can’t explain Gnosticism in a thread about Gnosticism without quoting from Gnostic scripture…

Is Baptism in the Ecclesia Gnostica in the trinitarian formula?

Yes, we are baptised in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

 

[CopticChristian]

This thread is called “Ask a Gnostic”, and Gnostics accept the Gospel of Philip… So at least part of the OHCAC accepts it as scripture.

You misunderstand what that “knowing” is if you think it isn’t through Christ. The Gospel of Thomas is scripture. I can’t explain Gnosticism in a thread about Gnosticism without quoting from Gnostic scripture…

Yes, we are baptised in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Gnostic one,

No part of the OHCAC accepts the writings you propose to be Scripture. You wrongly assume that these beliefs exist within the confines of the OHCAC…

Ecclesia Gnostica is not part of the OHCAC and has no Apostolic Tradition to link it to the OHCAC.

You referrenced Ecclesia Gnostica…and there you find a Catechism that states…

1. How is Human Gnosis acquired?

Primarily by way of the study and assimilation of the teachings of the Messengers of Light and of the seers and sages of the Gnostic tradition and by way of the amplification of these by individual insight.

what is gnosis…

1. What is Gnosis?

Gnosis is the revelatory and salvific knowledge of who we were, of what we have become, of where we were, of wherein we have been thrown, of whereto we are hastening, of what we are being freed, of what birth really is, and of what rebirth really is. This is an ancient definition which is still accurate.

coming to gnosis is different than salvation by grace, through Faith working in love, that is not done on our own…to aspire is to work…this is works

1. How does one come to Divine Gnosis?

By divine grace combined with sincere and informed human aspiration.

what is gnosis to save you from, sin? Oh no…

1. What are we to be saved from?

We are to be saved first from ignorance which prevents us from knowing our true source, our real nature, our condition and our destiny. At last we shall also be saved from the burden of earthly existence with its attendant conditions of suffering and exile from our true home.

and how is this accomplished…?

1. What brings about salvation?

Salvation is brought about neither by faith (belief in God, or Christ) nor by works (the performance of good deeds), but by Gnosis.

1. Why is this so?

Because faith and works do not result in a radical change in the being of one’s consciousness, but Gnosis does.

1. What does the radical change of consciousness brought about by Gnosis accomplish?

It establishes a renewed link of the soul with the spirit and of both with God. This breaks the bonds that have shackled our true being to the forces of earth. Ultimately it brings liberation from all earthly things.

1. What are the further benefits of salvation by Gnosis?

A turning away of the soul from the attachments of life, a constant straining upwards to the pure Divine Spirit, wherein is our true home. Also, God’s friendship in this life, a good death, and after that a swift passage through cleansing regions to God’s presence in the Fullness (PLEROMA) of divine glory, goodness and love.

Faith is not part of gnosticism and is disordered as it concerns the deposit of Faith…however gnosis is liberation of attachment to life and eartly things…

So does gnosis free you from masturbation, fornication and homosexuality? These are earthly things.

 

[gnosisofthomas]

No part of the OHCAC accepts the writings you propose to be Scripture. You wrongly assume that these beliefs exist within the confines of the OHCAC…

You wrongly assume that it matters what other parts of the OHCAC consider scripture. In a discussion on Gnosticism, we’re going to talk about Gnostic scripture, whether you agree with the books or not.

The OHCAC can’t even agree on a canon of scripture… Or are the Eastern Orthodox not part of the OHCAC? They have more books in their bible than the RCC does. Or what about the Ethiopian Orthodox Church? They include the Book of Enoch in their bible.

Ecclesia Gnostica is not part of the OHCAC and has no Apostolic Tradition to link it to the OHCAC.

The Gnostic teachings came from Christ through the apostles – there’s the Apostolic Tradition right there. The fact that your church rejected them as heresy makes no difference to us.

You referrenced Ecclesia Gnostica…and there you find a Catechism that states…

I’m familiar with the Gnostic Catechism – It would be hard to miss for someone who made it to Major Orders.

coming to gnosis is different than salvation by grace, through Faith working in love, that is not done on our own…to aspire is to work…this is works

Gnosis is not possible but through the grace of God. And as my priest said in his homily today, love is the key to Gnosis. Read my previous response in this thread about grace and love. I realise you reject the Gospel of Philip, but we’re talking about Gnosticism here, so Gnostic scripture is essential to the discussion. Faith, hope, love, and knowledge are all essential, according to that Gospel. But faith is the starting point – the foundation from which we grow in Gnosis.

what is gnosis to save you from, sin? Oh no…

Sin is a result of the deficiency that exists in the world. If we’re saved from that deficiency, then we’re also saved from sin.

Faith is not part of gnosticism and is disordered as it concerns the deposit of Faith…however gnosis is liberation of attachment to life and eartly things…

If faith weren’t part of Gnosticism, then why would the Gnostic Gospel of Philip say that faith is the earth in which we take root? The Gnostic scriptures talk constantly about faith, because it is important. However, it doesn’t save you. Faith and works help lead to Gnosis, and that is what saves you.

Also, kindly stop using the word “disordered” every single time you respond to anything I have to say. According to you, my thoughts are disordered, my faith is disordered. You do nothing but insult me, and you are not behaving with charity toward a religion that differs from your own – which is a violation of CAF rules.

So does gnosis free you from masturbation, fornication and homosexuality? These are earthly things.

I can’t help but notice how much you talk about sexual things in your posts… I have to wonder why that is. Earthly things are any attachment to this hylic world. One could even say heterosexuality is also an earthly thing. Dogmatic rules are earthly things. The Gnostic fears not the flesh, nor loves it.

If you’re detracted from the path to Gnosis because you’re unable to stop masturbating, then you have a problem – one that might even require some therapy. Likewise, if you’re detracted from the path to Gnosis because you can’t stop having sex with your spouse, you also have a problem!

 

[CopticChristian]

You wrongly assume that it matters what other parts of the OHCAC consider scripture. In a discussion on Gnosticism, we’re going to talk about Gnostic scripture, whether you agree with the books or not.

 

[gnosisofthomas]

This is CAF where questions are answered and discussed. The OHCAC, not including what you believe, Gnosic component to be part of includes in the Bible all that the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox include. Yes, they have more.

Right, and civil discussion is great! I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on what the OHCAC is.

I noticed you addressed masturbation and heterosexual relations in your path to Gnosis as a detraction and neglected homosexuality.

I didn’t neglect it, I used the word “spouse”.

While you posted ask a Gnostic, this is a public forum with the intent to compare and contrast Catholic beliefs…you came here, you are welcome, however please realize that what you propose contradicts the Revelation of the Deposit of Faith as oulined in the Catechism and is not part of the OHCAC teachings.

This was posted in the “Non-Catholic” section of the forum (unfortunately there’s no other option for us non-Roman-Catholic catholics). I would say that this “Deposit of Faith” you often refer to is missing a huge portion of Christ’s teachings, namely His teachings preserved in Gnostic scripture. Although, the Eastern Church has done a slightly better job of preserving some of these ideas through their Sacred Tradition than the Western Church has.

The Gospel is salvation through Christ by Grace, through Faith working in love…not gnosis…you preach another gospel…

I wouldn’t say it’s “another gospel”, just a deeper understanding of the Gospel.

 

[CopticChristian]

Right, and civil discussion is great! I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on what the OHCAC is.

I didn’t neglect it, I used the word “spouse”.

This was posted in the “Non-Catholic” section of the forum (unfortunately there’s no other option for us non-Roman-Catholic catholics). I would say that this “Deposit of Faith” you often refer to is missing a huge portion of Christ’s teachings, namely His teachings preserved in Gnostic scripture. Although, the Eastern Church has done a slightly better job of preserving some of these ideas through their Sacred Tradition than the Western Church has.

I wouldn’t say it’s “another gospel”, just a deeper understanding of the Gospel.

Gnostic one,

Are you suggestiing that in relation to homosexuals Gnostics approve of homosexual spouses?

 

[gnosisofthomas]

Are you suggestiing that in relation to homosexuals Gnostics approve of homosexual spouses?

Ours is an open and affirming church. Sexual orientation and gender identity are non-issues for us. Gay and straight couples alike can receive the Sacrament of Marriage.