Z
Zachary
Guest
So we have no “active roster?” ie Mr. Jones is a demigod.
- Status
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openmind77
Guest
Don’t mean to contradict anything OP is saying or interfere in his thread, but I can not resist a comment:
Mainstream Hindus from India (all one billion of them) would be a little shocked if not quite offended to hear that Shiva, Brahma, Laksmi, Saraswati, Ganesh are considered demigods by any Hindu. Even Prabhupada himself may be surprised to learn this (if he was indeed a Hindu from India and did not pick up some new beliefs while in the US).
India has three main Gods which are eternal and uncreated - Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma (a Trinity quite similar and equivalent to Christianity). All other Gods/Goddess derive from these three main ones (including Krishna who is an Avatar of Vishnu). Which is not to say that Krishna is not a real God in his own right.
I guess Hare Krishnas have changed the hierarchy of Hindu Gods a bit (innate monotheistic tendencies left over from their Judeo-Christian roots no doubt make them declare that Krishna is the only ‘real’, Supreme God).
I hope it is permissible to provide an external link in these forums, but a good analysis/hierarchy of Hindu Gods can be found here: www.sentforlife.com/hindugods.html
C
Chaitanya
Guest
Whoops sorry meant Matt 11:27 haha don’t know why I said 1:1
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patrick457
Guest
Gaudiya Vaishnavism is AFAIK indeed somewhat monotheistic in their theology (I believe Vallabha Sampradaya and Nimbarka Sampradaya hold the same, though I could be wrong): Krishna is the svayam bhagavan from which all other avatars of the deity emanate. ‘God’ manifests himself in many different incarnations and forms, although Krishna is the original, ultimate form of the divinity. While it is common to ascribe Krishna as an avatar of Vishnu, in Krishna-centered sects like Gaudiya the opposite view is held: Vishnu is an incarnation of Krishna, who is the source. This is what separates Gaudiya Vaishnavism from other Vaishnavite schools, as I mentioned.
(AFAIK the Varkari school - also grouped under the banner of Vaishnavism - is also interpreted to hold a somewhat monotheistic bhakti theology, worshipping Krishna in his form as Vithoba.)
I think it really boils down to a difference in theology between different Hindu schools. (Although I’ll admit that being a non-Hindu my viewpoint is limited to that of an outsider.) The view you express reminds me more of the one expressed by Smartism (or was it?): gods like Vishnu and Shiva are all equal aspects of the divinity (Brahman), which would of course contrast with Vaishnavism (where Vishnu or Krishna is supreme) or Shaivism (where Shiva is supreme).
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openmind77
Guest
There has always been a dispute in India between Vaishnas and Shaivas about who is the superior God (Although not anywhere as serious as the Suni/Shia conflict -my father’s family is Shaivite while my mother’s is Vaishnavite), but nobody says that either of them is a demigod. However, even VallabhaAcharya would not put Krishna above Vishnu or deny the divinity of Shiva and ShankaraAcharya actually wrote the Gita Govinda (Govinda is another name of Krishna). Monotheism in India is really just worshiping a preferred deity, not denying divinity of any other.
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patrick457
Guest
I’m sorry to the OP for butting in repeatedly, but a little context from a non-Hindu’s perspective. (Yes, I know that I only focus on the history and not on the theology, but this is just my take on this, okay?)
There are a number of theories as to how the Indo-Aryans arrived in the Indian subcontinent (or even whether they came from someplace else at all), but the currently favored model is that the Indo-Aryans, aka the Vedic people, share a common origin with the Iranian, Dardic and Nuristani peoples: the Indo-Iranian culture.
The Indo-Iranians, sometimes postulated to be the descendants of the Bronze Age Andronovo culture which had its homeland in the Eurasian steppe that borders the Ural River on the west and the Tian Shan on the east, expanded southwards from their original habitat to the Caucasus, Central Asia, the Iranian plateau, Northern India, as well as Mesopotamia and Syria. The separation of Indo-Aryans proper from Indo-Iranians is commonly dated, on linguistic grounds, to roughly 1800 BC. By the mid-2nd millennium BC early Indo-Aryans had reached Assyria in the west, where they imposed themselves over the local Hurrian population and founded the state of Mitanni, while various tribes (the Rigvedic tribes) had reached the northern Punjab in the east contemporary to the Late Harappan phase (ca. 1700 to 1300 BC), when the civilization that once existed in the Indus Valley was experiencing a sharp decline.
The Indo-Aryans have brought with them a belief system descended from the Indo-Iranian religion, which in turn is of proto-Indo-European origin. The Indo-Aryans of Mitanni are known to have worshipped deities known as Mitrasil, Uruvanassil, Indara and the Nasatianna, which corresponds with the gods Mitra, Varuna, Indra and the Nasatyas of the Rigveda, a collection of Vedic Sanskrit hymns which modern Hindus venerate as one of the four ‘revealed’ Vedas.
These Indo-Aryans also brought with them the cult of fire and of Soma (a ritual drink held in the highest importance by these people; the Zoroastrian haoma is of the same origin), along with the art of composing religious poems in several metres. The purpose of these hymns was to propitiate the gods by praises accompanying the offering of malted butter poured on the fire and of the juice of the Soma plant (the precise identity of which is now lost) placed on the sacrificial grass.
The gods of the Indo-Aryans are conceived of as being human in appearance. Their bodily parts which are frequently mentioned, are in many instances simply figurative illustrations of the phenomena of nature represented by them. Thus the arms of the Sun are nothing more than his rays; and the tongue and limbs of the fire god Agni merely denote his flames.
Some of the Vedic gods appear equipped as warriors, especially Indra (the national god of the Indo-Aryans and the chief deity of the Vedic pantheon), others are described as priests, especially Agni and Brihaspati (the guru of the gods). All of them are thought to drive through the air in chariots drawn chiefly by horses, but sometimes by other animals.
The favorite food of the gods is the same as that of men: milk, butter, grain, and the flesh of sheep, goats, and cattle. It is offered to them in sacrifice, which is either supposed to be conveyed to them in heaven by Agni (in reference to the fact that these sacrifices are burnt), or which they come in their chariots to partake of on the strew of grass prepared for their reception. Their favorite drink, meanwhile, is the exhilarating - inebriating - juice of the Soma plant: it is by drinking Soma that the gods have become gods.
There are a number of theories as to how the Indo-Aryans arrived in the Indian subcontinent (or even whether they came from someplace else at all), but the currently favored model is that the Indo-Aryans, aka the Vedic people, share a common origin with the Iranian, Dardic and Nuristani peoples: the Indo-Iranian culture.
The Indo-Iranians, sometimes postulated to be the descendants of the Bronze Age Andronovo culture which had its homeland in the Eurasian steppe that borders the Ural River on the west and the Tian Shan on the east, expanded southwards from their original habitat to the Caucasus, Central Asia, the Iranian plateau, Northern India, as well as Mesopotamia and Syria. The separation of Indo-Aryans proper from Indo-Iranians is commonly dated, on linguistic grounds, to roughly 1800 BC. By the mid-2nd millennium BC early Indo-Aryans had reached Assyria in the west, where they imposed themselves over the local Hurrian population and founded the state of Mitanni, while various tribes (the Rigvedic tribes) had reached the northern Punjab in the east contemporary to the Late Harappan phase (ca. 1700 to 1300 BC), when the civilization that once existed in the Indus Valley was experiencing a sharp decline.
The Indo-Aryans have brought with them a belief system descended from the Indo-Iranian religion, which in turn is of proto-Indo-European origin. The Indo-Aryans of Mitanni are known to have worshipped deities known as Mitrasil, Uruvanassil, Indara and the Nasatianna, which corresponds with the gods Mitra, Varuna, Indra and the Nasatyas of the Rigveda, a collection of Vedic Sanskrit hymns which modern Hindus venerate as one of the four ‘revealed’ Vedas.
These Indo-Aryans also brought with them the cult of fire and of Soma (a ritual drink held in the highest importance by these people; the Zoroastrian haoma is of the same origin), along with the art of composing religious poems in several metres. The purpose of these hymns was to propitiate the gods by praises accompanying the offering of malted butter poured on the fire and of the juice of the Soma plant (the precise identity of which is now lost) placed on the sacrificial grass.
The gods of the Indo-Aryans are conceived of as being human in appearance. Their bodily parts which are frequently mentioned, are in many instances simply figurative illustrations of the phenomena of nature represented by them. Thus the arms of the Sun are nothing more than his rays; and the tongue and limbs of the fire god Agni merely denote his flames.
Some of the Vedic gods appear equipped as warriors, especially Indra (the national god of the Indo-Aryans and the chief deity of the Vedic pantheon), others are described as priests, especially Agni and Brihaspati (the guru of the gods). All of them are thought to drive through the air in chariots drawn chiefly by horses, but sometimes by other animals.
The favorite food of the gods is the same as that of men: milk, butter, grain, and the flesh of sheep, goats, and cattle. It is offered to them in sacrifice, which is either supposed to be conveyed to them in heaven by Agni (in reference to the fact that these sacrifices are burnt), or which they come in their chariots to partake of on the strew of grass prepared for their reception. Their favorite drink, meanwhile, is the exhilarating - inebriating - juice of the Soma plant: it is by drinking Soma that the gods have become gods.
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patrick457
Guest
One of the main deities (devas, asuras) of the Vedic pantheon is Indra, the national god of the Indo-Aryans, king of gods and deity of thunderstorms - in other words the Indo-Aryan analogue to Zeus (both of them share a common origin anyway). Perhaps the one with the most developed personality out of all Vedic deities, he is cocky, boisterous, and likes soma, the divine beverage so much that he gets drunk on it. Indra’s main claim to fame was waging war against and ultimately slaying the serpent Vritra, who hogged all the waters to himself, using his vajra (thunderbolt). The Indo-Aryans often invoked Indra to wage war against and to smite their enemies.
Agni, the god of fire and a personification of the sacrificial fire itself, is another important deity in the Vedic pantheon, second only to Indra. As such Agni is considered to be the accepter of sacrifices (men offer sacrifice by fire and the gods receive partake of the sacrifice by fire) and thus, the bridge between men and the gods. Hence out of all the gods he has the most connection with human beings.
Varuna is the supreme keeper of the cosmic law and order (rita). Like Indra he is also a king (they are sometimes paired together as Indra-Varuna), but while Indra is a ‘brawns over brains’ type of god: boisterous, reckless and easily manipulated by ritual and soma, Varuna is more ethical, considerate and just. He is a strict moral governor, punishing the wicked who breaks his laws but also rewarding the righteous and showing mercy to the penitent. He seems to have been at an early stage a sky god (with some solar traits) although this aspect of his has been neglected in favor of abstract concepts.
Mitra (related to the Zoroastrian Mithra, who became the inspiration for the Greco-Roman Mithras) is the god of honesty, friendship, contracts and meetings. He is so often paired with Varuna as a guardian of natural, social and moral order (Mitra-Varuna) that he really has little distinctive character of his own. Both gods have solar aspects (making them two out of the many Vedic solar gods), although when paired Varuna is often associated with the night, and Mitra with the daylight.
The Ashvins, aka the Nasatyas (the ‘true’) are the Indo-Aryan divine horse twins (cf. the Greco-Roman Dioskouroi/Dioscuri - Castor and Pollux! - and the Baltic Asveniai). They symbolize the shining of sunrise and sunset, appearing in the sky before the dawn in a golden chariot (most Vedic gods ride on one). Serving as physicians to gods and men, they bring treasures and avert misfortune and sickness.
Soma, the god of the eponymous favorite beverage of the gods and the eponymous plant it was made of (cf. the Avestan haoma). Highly intoxicating, drinking soma was what made the gods immortal (cf. the Greek ambrosia): out of all the lot Agni and Indra are heavy soma drinkers. In fact, the drink was reputed to not just confer immortality, but other miraculous effects. Unfortunately for the Indo-Aryans and later generations, true soma soon became unavailable and knowledge of the exact identity of the plant was lost altogether.
Rudra, god of the storm (especially its destructive aspects), a fierce hunter with braided hair armed often with bow and arrow but sometimes with a thunderbolt. He is feared because of his tendency to smite man and beast with plague and disease (though he also has the power to heal them) that he is sometimes never referred to directly by his name but are given euphemistic epithets (Indians sure like multiple names
) like ghora (‘terrible’; later shifting to aghora ‘not-terrible’), asau devam (‘that god’), or shiva (‘auspicious’). Because of his undesirable characteristics, Rudra is at times considered to be ‘outside’ the group of the Vedic deities: stories exist how the other gods refused to give him his share of the sacrifice that he had to take them by force. Sometimes Rudra is even identified with Agni: in the cracking of fire the Indo-Aryans heard the voice of the storm.
Aside from these there also other gods like Dyava-prithvi, in other words Heaven (Dyaus, the Indo-Aryan sky father) and his consort the Earth (Prithvi); Ushas, goddess of the dawn; Parjanya, god of rain and the raincloud; a water deity named Apam Napat (cf. the Avestan god of the same name); Brihaspati, the ‘lord of prayer’; Vata and Vayu, gods of wind; Ratri, goddess of night; Yama, the first man to die and ruler of the dead; Bhaga, god of wealth and marriage; the Maruts, sons of Rudra and the bodyguards of Indra; Aditi, mother of the Adityas (which are seven, eight, eleven or twelve in number); other solar deities like Savitar, Surya (the solar orb), Vishnu (a solar deity who traversed the entire universe in just three strides and the one who assisted Indra against Vritra), Pushan (god of meeting, a guide of the dead and a supportive guide, leading towards rich pastures and wealth), or Aryaman. And so on and so forth.
Agni, the god of fire and a personification of the sacrificial fire itself, is another important deity in the Vedic pantheon, second only to Indra. As such Agni is considered to be the accepter of sacrifices (men offer sacrifice by fire and the gods receive partake of the sacrifice by fire) and thus, the bridge between men and the gods. Hence out of all the gods he has the most connection with human beings.
Varuna is the supreme keeper of the cosmic law and order (rita). Like Indra he is also a king (they are sometimes paired together as Indra-Varuna), but while Indra is a ‘brawns over brains’ type of god: boisterous, reckless and easily manipulated by ritual and soma, Varuna is more ethical, considerate and just. He is a strict moral governor, punishing the wicked who breaks his laws but also rewarding the righteous and showing mercy to the penitent. He seems to have been at an early stage a sky god (with some solar traits) although this aspect of his has been neglected in favor of abstract concepts.
Mitra (related to the Zoroastrian Mithra, who became the inspiration for the Greco-Roman Mithras) is the god of honesty, friendship, contracts and meetings. He is so often paired with Varuna as a guardian of natural, social and moral order (Mitra-Varuna) that he really has little distinctive character of his own. Both gods have solar aspects (making them two out of the many Vedic solar gods), although when paired Varuna is often associated with the night, and Mitra with the daylight.
The Ashvins, aka the Nasatyas (the ‘true’) are the Indo-Aryan divine horse twins (cf. the Greco-Roman Dioskouroi/Dioscuri - Castor and Pollux! - and the Baltic Asveniai). They symbolize the shining of sunrise and sunset, appearing in the sky before the dawn in a golden chariot (most Vedic gods ride on one). Serving as physicians to gods and men, they bring treasures and avert misfortune and sickness.
Soma, the god of the eponymous favorite beverage of the gods and the eponymous plant it was made of (cf. the Avestan haoma). Highly intoxicating, drinking soma was what made the gods immortal (cf. the Greek ambrosia): out of all the lot Agni and Indra are heavy soma drinkers. In fact, the drink was reputed to not just confer immortality, but other miraculous effects. Unfortunately for the Indo-Aryans and later generations, true soma soon became unavailable and knowledge of the exact identity of the plant was lost altogether.
Rudra, god of the storm (especially its destructive aspects), a fierce hunter with braided hair armed often with bow and arrow but sometimes with a thunderbolt. He is feared because of his tendency to smite man and beast with plague and disease (though he also has the power to heal them) that he is sometimes never referred to directly by his name but are given euphemistic epithets (Indians sure like multiple names
) like ghora (‘terrible’; later shifting to aghora ‘not-terrible’), asau devam (‘that god’), or shiva (‘auspicious’). Because of his undesirable characteristics, Rudra is at times considered to be ‘outside’ the group of the Vedic deities: stories exist how the other gods refused to give him his share of the sacrifice that he had to take them by force. Sometimes Rudra is even identified with Agni: in the cracking of fire the Indo-Aryans heard the voice of the storm.Aside from these there also other gods like Dyava-prithvi, in other words Heaven (Dyaus, the Indo-Aryan sky father) and his consort the Earth (Prithvi); Ushas, goddess of the dawn; Parjanya, god of rain and the raincloud; a water deity named Apam Napat (cf. the Avestan god of the same name); Brihaspati, the ‘lord of prayer’; Vata and Vayu, gods of wind; Ratri, goddess of night; Yama, the first man to die and ruler of the dead; Bhaga, god of wealth and marriage; the Maruts, sons of Rudra and the bodyguards of Indra; Aditi, mother of the Adityas (which are seven, eight, eleven or twelve in number); other solar deities like Savitar, Surya (the solar orb), Vishnu (a solar deity who traversed the entire universe in just three strides and the one who assisted Indra against Vritra), Pushan (god of meeting, a guide of the dead and a supportive guide, leading towards rich pastures and wealth), or Aryaman. And so on and so forth.
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openmind77
Guest
It is good to understand the history of how a religion developed, but we are really talking about Hinduism as it is practiced today.
There are no temples for Indra and Varuna (or Soma or Mitra) in India or anywhere else in the world where Hindus actively worship today. Rudra is considered a form of Shiva.
A short list of those actively worshiped can be found here: thehindugods.com
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edwest2
Guest
I visited a Krishna temple. I noticed two statues on a swing. When I asked who they were, I was told they were Krishna and Radharani. I then asked about what appeared to be solid silver sandals that they were wearing. I was told they were solid silver. Why was that important/significant? I don’t believe reincarnation is real.
I hope you don’t mind my saying it but there is no evidence that Jesus is not King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
biblecc.com/john/10-7.htm
biblecc.com/john/10-1.htm
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
Thank you for your politeness.
Ed
I hope you don’t mind my saying it but there is no evidence that Jesus is not King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
biblecc.com/john/10-7.htm
biblecc.com/john/10-1.htm
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
Thank you for your politeness.
Ed
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happyme
Guest
Dear friend I wish to thank you for explaining your belief.
I find that certain posts not really honest, by Catholics who say that all Christians believe that Jesus is God, this is not so. I am also amused that they question you quoting from their Bible, as again the Bible is not the only property of Catholics. Gods teachings I believe are for all mankind.
Anyway thanks to you and your friend for starting this interesting thread that in reality shows we all have many similar beliefs, if though we may differ in some.
It is always nice to concentrate on our similarity than engage in debate over where we may disagree. Blessings to you
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patrick457
Guest
That is true as you know, and I’m just getting to that.
The sacrificial act (yajna) performed by expert brahman priests served as the core of the Indo-Aryan religion. Oblations included ghee (clarified butter), milk, grains, Soma (although when it no longer became available, a substitute), and oftentimes meat (the early Indo-Aryans, unlike modern Hindus, performed animal sacrifice - the Ashvamedha or the “horse sacrifice” is the most famous example), which are cast into the sacrificial fire with the chanting of hymns.
The Indo-Aryans did not have any temples: sacrifice was offered on an altar, which acquired a huge significance. These altars can be erected anywhere - such as people’s houses - since it is related to no kind of cultic building. It is even provisional since it is erected from time to time as the need arises, and is abandoned or destroyed as soon as a sacrifice is completed (cf. the Agnicayana, where the whole sacrificial compound - symbolizing the house of the sacrificer - is set on fire at the end of the ritual).
By the later Vedic period (1000-500 BC), when the Indo-Aryans moved further and further into the subcontinent and when a shift in lifestyle (sedentary, agricultural villages replacing the nomadic pastoralism of old) brought with it social changes (such as the division of the population into different castes and increasing misogynistic tendencies), the brahmans became the elite of Indo-Aryan society: financed by the wealthy and the pious, they in return conferred cultic legitimacy to their patrons by carrying out powerful sacrifices that ritually converted warriors to kings and granted immortality (not in a literal sense it seems). In one sense they are even higher than the ruling clansmen or the raja (ruler) of the clan/tribe/kingdom.
By the end of the Vedic period, we have at least three strands of philosophy co-existing influencing each other: ritualistic Brahmanism, self-reliant shramana traditions (Buddhism and Jainism were derived from these), and devotional bhakti traditions. These three influenced each other, helping form the Hinduism we know today.
At this time, traditional religious practices and beliefs were reassessed; brahmans and the rituals they performed no longer enjoyed the same prestige they had in the old days. Different schools of thought delved into deeper philosophy and applied exegesis into traditional beliefs, resulting in the Upanishads - which serve as a foundation for modern Hinduism. Some features of the ancient religion - such as animal sacrifice - became generally frowned upon and fell by the wayside (although practice did continue in a few folk circles even to recent times - performance is now illegal in India AFAIK).
When Hinduism grew out of the Vedic religion, many of the traditional Vedic gods either received an upgrade or a downgrade or even a change in status. Indra is the archetypal example: while he was still nominally the king of the devas (which now has more of a connotation of ‘lower-class deities’ or ‘demigods’), he was no longer important as he once was. Whereas the older legends preserved in the Vedas praised his prowess and his valiant deeds, in later texts the focus was seemingly on his negative traits like his affairs with different women or his being an all-around jerk (again, like Zeus). Sarasvati was at first the personification of the river of the same name before she became the goddess of wisdom. Savitar totally disappeared: he is only remembered today mainly because his name appears in the venerable Gayatri mantra. Surya (another Vedic solar deity) de facto became the Hindu god of the sun in place of the various Vedic solar deities (which is really more like ‘deities with solar characteristics’).
Out of father-deity figures like Prajapati (the “lord of creatures”) came Brahma (not to be confused with the cosmic spirit Brahman). Rudra meanwhile apparently absorbed traits of other gods (as well as characteristics coming from other sources) and became the much-tamer Shiva (the ‘Auspicious’), Destroyer and ascetic-slash-householder. Vishnu on the other hand, starting from being a minor solar deity became the Preserver and for the human devotees, very much Shiva’s rival for the title of supreme deity. And then there’s the other “new” deities like Ganesha (aka Ganapati etc.), Durga, Kali, Murugan (aka Kartikeya, etc.), and so on.
That’s it. Forgive me if I have misstated anything and welcome corrections of any sort.
O
openmind77
Guest
.
I don’t speak for the OP, but actually I too am waiting eagerly for the Return of the Christ. I believe it will happen soon within our lifetimes (I am quite old).
I think many of these questions about reincarnation, what is the true nature of God(s) etc will be cleared up after he returns.
I am not at all worried about his judgement.
M
Mastiff_Eng
Guest
I really don’t want to sound rude or disrespectful but,
These kinds of threads could be considered attempts of evangelisation, trying to convert
those that read them into that specific religion.
Anyway I don’t think as Catholics anyone is really that bothered about “hare Krishna” tbh.
Again no disrespect intended.
These kinds of threads could be considered attempts of evangelisation, trying to convert
those that read them into that specific religion.
Anyway I don’t think as Catholics anyone is really that bothered about “hare Krishna” tbh.
Again no disrespect intended.
O
openmind77
Guest
I don’t believe the intent is evangelism or proselytizing.
But actually I do agree with you that these ‘Ask a XXXX’ threads are unnecessary. Anyone who has a specific question about a religion (or about Bob) can easily start their own thread, such a general thread is not needed.
However, once a thread on Hinduism is started, I feel compelled to participate.
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happyme
Guest
Then may I ask with all due respect, why you have a place for interfaith discussion, if you feel someone explaining their faith and answering questions is trying to convert others.
Then you make the comment:-Anyway I don’t think as Catholics anyone is really that bothered about “hare Krishna” tbh.
And say no disrespect intended
showing a total lack of respect. One is inclined to ask why then are you in this thread and feel the need to comment as you do. incredible
M
MartinJordan
Guest
The Bible is For The Church by The Church. The Good News of Christ’s redemption first spread by word and this Tradition of handing down the teachings lead to what we call the Bible. And can be used as guide for Evangelization.
If others want to use it that’s fine but they need to accept that the Church is responsible to interpret it with the assistance of the Holy Spirit and not to depend on human thinking alone.
MJ
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patrick457
Guest
We’ve gotten this far and I still don’t see anyone explaining who exactly Krishna is.
Krishna first appears as a character in the Indian epic Mahabharata.
Simply put, the epic describes the struggle for the throne of the city of Hastinapura by two collateral branches of the same clan (the Kurus): the five Pandava brothers - the protagonists of the story - and the Kaurava. The Kauravas and the Pandavas are the respective sons of two brothers: the blind Dhritarashtra and the sickly Pandu.
Since his elder brother was blind, Pandu had inherited the throne, but due to being cursed by a sage whom he has killed by accident (that he will die the moment he engages in a sexual act), Pandu gives the throne to Dhritarashtra and goes away with his two wives, Kunti and Madri. It is then that Kunti reveals that she had once received a boon that she could invoke any god using a special mantra. Using this mantra, Kunti and Madri invoke different gods - Dharma (god of justice), Vayu (god of wind), Indra, and the two Ashvins - and have five children by them - Yudhishthira, Bhima, Arjuna, Nakula and Sahadeva - thereby bypassing the curse. Pandu still dies however after attempting to have intercourse with Madri, and Madri kills herself on Pandu’s funeral pyre, leaving Kunti to raise the children, who became known as the Pandava.
Dhritarashtra, meanwhile, has a hundred sons through his wife Gandhari, all born after the birth of Yudhishtira - the Kauravas. Although the Kaurava is the senior branch of the family (by virtue of Dhritarashtra being the elder brother), Duryodhana - the eldest of the Kaurava - is younger than Yudhisthira. Both Duryodhana and Yudhisthira claim to be first in line to inherit the royal throne. The relationship of the cousins are thus marked by rivalry and enmity from their youth into their manhood, a conflict which would soon escalate into the devastating Kurukshetra War.
Krishna son of Vasudeva (the Krishna we are talking about) is introduced as a leading prince of the city of Dvaraka (in the neighboring kingdom of Mathura) and a cousin of both parties, but he was particularly a friend and advisor to the Pandavas and the brother-in-law of Arjuna (who took his sister, Subhadra, as one of his wives). He first appears in the epic along with his brother Balarama during the swayamvara (where a girl of marriageable age chooses a husband from potential suitors, sometimes through evaluating the completion of various tasks assigned) which is taking place for the hand of the Panchala princess Draupadi, which the Pandavas (under disguise) attended.
In the epic, Krishna is portrayed as a shrewd adviser eager to see the bloody war occur (war is at once a punishment and a cleansing of mankind - Krishna is introduced as an incarnation of Vishnu, who came to earth to restore balance and order; the Kurukshetra War was ultimately a means of purging adharma or ‘injustice’), and in many ways the Pandavas were his human instruments for fulfilling that end. He often resorts to cunning and deception in order to meet his goal of leading the Pandavas to victory - which was achieved at the cost of many lives. He is best remembered as serving as Arjuna’s chariot driver during the battle of his own volition - his pre-war dialogue with Arjuna (who became hesitant to commence the war at the last minute) is the famous Bhagavad-gita. The story ultimately closes with the end of the glorious reign of the Pandavas and their ascension into heaven via the Himalayas (Svarga), the destruction of Dvaraka (Krishna’s city), and Krishna’s ‘death’ (he was accidentally shot at his ankle when a woodsman mistook it for a deer).
Krishna first appears as a character in the Indian epic Mahabharata.
Simply put, the epic describes the struggle for the throne of the city of Hastinapura by two collateral branches of the same clan (the Kurus): the five Pandava brothers - the protagonists of the story - and the Kaurava. The Kauravas and the Pandavas are the respective sons of two brothers: the blind Dhritarashtra and the sickly Pandu.
Since his elder brother was blind, Pandu had inherited the throne, but due to being cursed by a sage whom he has killed by accident (that he will die the moment he engages in a sexual act), Pandu gives the throne to Dhritarashtra and goes away with his two wives, Kunti and Madri. It is then that Kunti reveals that she had once received a boon that she could invoke any god using a special mantra. Using this mantra, Kunti and Madri invoke different gods - Dharma (god of justice), Vayu (god of wind), Indra, and the two Ashvins - and have five children by them - Yudhishthira, Bhima, Arjuna, Nakula and Sahadeva - thereby bypassing the curse. Pandu still dies however after attempting to have intercourse with Madri, and Madri kills herself on Pandu’s funeral pyre, leaving Kunti to raise the children, who became known as the Pandava.
Dhritarashtra, meanwhile, has a hundred sons through his wife Gandhari, all born after the birth of Yudhishtira - the Kauravas. Although the Kaurava is the senior branch of the family (by virtue of Dhritarashtra being the elder brother), Duryodhana - the eldest of the Kaurava - is younger than Yudhisthira. Both Duryodhana and Yudhisthira claim to be first in line to inherit the royal throne. The relationship of the cousins are thus marked by rivalry and enmity from their youth into their manhood, a conflict which would soon escalate into the devastating Kurukshetra War.
Krishna son of Vasudeva (the Krishna we are talking about) is introduced as a leading prince of the city of Dvaraka (in the neighboring kingdom of Mathura) and a cousin of both parties, but he was particularly a friend and advisor to the Pandavas and the brother-in-law of Arjuna (who took his sister, Subhadra, as one of his wives). He first appears in the epic along with his brother Balarama during the swayamvara (where a girl of marriageable age chooses a husband from potential suitors, sometimes through evaluating the completion of various tasks assigned) which is taking place for the hand of the Panchala princess Draupadi, which the Pandavas (under disguise) attended.
In the epic, Krishna is portrayed as a shrewd adviser eager to see the bloody war occur (war is at once a punishment and a cleansing of mankind - Krishna is introduced as an incarnation of Vishnu, who came to earth to restore balance and order; the Kurukshetra War was ultimately a means of purging adharma or ‘injustice’), and in many ways the Pandavas were his human instruments for fulfilling that end. He often resorts to cunning and deception in order to meet his goal of leading the Pandavas to victory - which was achieved at the cost of many lives. He is best remembered as serving as Arjuna’s chariot driver during the battle of his own volition - his pre-war dialogue with Arjuna (who became hesitant to commence the war at the last minute) is the famous Bhagavad-gita. The story ultimately closes with the end of the glorious reign of the Pandavas and their ascension into heaven via the Himalayas (Svarga), the destruction of Dvaraka (Krishna’s city), and Krishna’s ‘death’ (he was accidentally shot at his ankle when a woodsman mistook it for a deer).
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MartinJordan
Guest
Ah ok. Still…Matthew 3 : 16-17, and Matthew 14: 26-33 also has the Son of God reference and Matthew 22:42 -46 Jesus asks about who is the Messiah.
MJ
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happyme
Guest
Dear friend I understand what you are saying, I just see things differently with all due respect to your belief.
But then I believe that there have been further Messengers of God, who have clarified certain translations, but I realize that you may not accept that.
Peace friend this is for interfaith understandings, we all need to give each other some respect here.
Z
Zachary
Guest
Ya, not really. Not the same kind of three…
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