Ask A Mormon

[ErinGoBragh]

I have a couple of honest questions. Nothing meant to stump or to confuse. Just curiosities.

• Mormons believe that in history, there have been periods of when there was a proper faith between people and God, followed by periods of apostasy, and thereafter, restoration. Joseph Smith is believed to have brought the latest restoration. That being said, is it possible, according to Mormon theology, that sometime in the future there will be another apostasy that might leave the world without communication (for lack of a better term) with God? If not, well, why not, since it’s a pattern in history?
• What do Mormons traditionally make of the fact that most archaeological records do not seem to support Mormon claims in terms of a Hebrew tribe having landed in the Americas, and believing in Jesus Christ, or a record of scriptures that support any Mormon theological claims not associated with classical Christianity? Or do Mormons believe that such records and scriptures actually exist?
• Just your personal opinion - why do you think Mormons seem to buck the trend in terms of social decay that has impacted the rest of Western society, including many people who profess to be in the classical Christian churches?

Thank you for your time,

These are great questions and i’m a little excited to answer them

For your first question, it might be a little easier to understand the answer if you think of these “apostasy” scenario’s as dispensations. The church teaches 7 main dispensations. A dispensation is, "a period of time in which the Lord has at least one authorized servant on the earth who bears the keys of the holy priesthood.

Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith, and others have each started a new gospel dispensation. When the Lord organizes a dispensation, the gospel is revealed anew so that the people of that dispensation do not have to depend on past dispensations for knowledge of the plan of salvation. The dispensation begun by Joseph Smith is known as the “dispensation of the fulness of times.” -lds.org

So with the “dispensation of the fulness of times” we are taught that everything we need for salvation and exaltation are complete with Joseph Smith restoring Christ church. Let me clarify here, we do not believe that through Joseph Smith we are saved, thats only through Jesus Christ Our Lord.

Next question, This question peeks my interests because i’m currently studying archaeology. Now, it is true that there is not a lot of tangible evidence within the earth to support the ancient civilizations, however, just because they haven’t been found yet, doesn’t mean its not there. However, as a whole, mormons tend to rely on the “archaeological” proof of the book of mormon, for instance, chiasms are a huge faith promoter for mormons. The church relys more on the authenticity of the book of mormon then the authenticity of the “ground” so to speak. Which doesn’t sit very well with me.

Last question, could you clarify please? I think what you are asking is why Mormons are so focused on calling themselves Christian?

 

[gazelam]

Whar is the LDS position on Adam’s and Eve’s belly button?

 

[ErinGoBragh]

Erin, If you read the Acts of the Apostles very closely you will see the church building up in numbers. That’s Christ’s Church led by Peter, and Paul doing a great amount of the evangelization of building it up in numbers. He even wrote over half of the new testament. When did it crash? Never, the church existed before the bible ever did, in fact it was the work of the church which put the bible in existance so it would help build up the church and the faith of it’s people. The church has 1.2 billion members today. So where’s the apostasy? It’s stronger than it’s ever been, look at the love we have for each other. That’s a love created by God. If you truly understood the Catholic church you would never leave it. Jesus was from the tribe of Judah.

and i meant judas not judah sorry, typing like crazy over here.

 

[Karen107]

Taking off my doubting Mormon hat and putting on my Mormon hat:

LDS have multiple reasons for believing an apostasy makes sense to them, as I’m sure Erin will go into. LDS frequently will cite the alleged loss of apostles as a prime reason for this. LDS say that apostles are to be at the head of the Church, so when there were no more apostles, replaced with bishops, this was a loss of authority, since they do not view apostles as holding the same office as bishops (there is a different view of apostles vs bishops between Catholics and LDS, as has been discussed in other threads). LDS will then say that due to the persecution and the apostles being spread out, it wasn’t possible for them to ordain successor apostles.

LDS also view as evidence of an apostasy the alleged changing of ordinances and doctrines. For example, LDS say that baptism was originally performed by immersion, then it was changed to pouring (they generally don’t realize that Catholics still perform immersion in addition to pouring), which changed the ordinance from the original. Doubting Mormon hat-LDS ordinances, such as the Endowment and the Initiatory Washing and Anointing, have changed in form over time as well. I think that LDS will typically excuse this by claiming that such changes were inspired by God, implying that changes or evolutions in doctrine and ordinance/sacrament anciently is evidence of apostasy. Very interesting.

But but, I have a hard time with that which is why it stuns me, If they believe that about apostles, then how could they take claim to be apostles. Because they name their 12 leaders apostles? Mormon church wasn’t even created at that time of Christ. I realize they’ve worked all the details out, but it’s so obvious that the Catholic church was started by Jesus Christ, it’s written about in the scriptures. I heard about the plates thing, and how Jesus walked in NA during the 40 days picking up followers… But still, The Mormon church did not even exist back then, … Follow the scriptures to see the true build up of the church…

 

[FabiusMaximus]

These are great questions and i’m a little excited to answer them

For your first question, it might be a little easier to understand the answer if you think of these “apostasy” scenario’s as dispensations. The church teaches 7 main dispensations. A dispensation is, "a period of time in which the Lord has at least one authorized servant on the earth who bears the keys of the holy priesthood.

Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith, and others have each started a new gospel dispensation. When the Lord organizes a dispensation, the gospel is revealed anew so that the people of that dispensation do not have to depend on past dispensations for knowledge of the plan of salvation. The dispensation begun by Joseph Smith is known as the “dispensation of the fulness of times.” -lds.org

So with the “dispensation of the fulness of times” we are taught that everything we need for salvation and exaltation are complete with Joseph Smith restoring Christ church. Let me clarify here, we do not believe that through Joseph Smith we are saved, thats only through Jesus Christ Our Lord.

So at this point we’ve then reached the point where the LDS matches the Catholics, and now the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church, right?

In other words, according to Mormon theology, there will be no more apostasies because the current LDS are “the final dispensation”? I wonder how fundamentalist LDS and other secessionists sects would feel about that.

Next question, This question peeks my interests because i’m currently studying archaeology. Now, it is true that there is not a lot of tangible evidence within the earth to support the ancient civilizations, however, just because they haven’t been found yet, doesn’t mean its not there. However, as a whole, mormons tend to rely on the “archaeological” proof of the book of mormon, for instance, chiasms are a huge faith promoter for mormons. The church relys more on the authenticity of the book of mormon then the authenticity of the “ground” so to speak. Which doesn’t sit very well with me.

What makes me curious is that the Jews generally kept good records almost everywhere they went. Even after the time of Jesus, the Jews focused greatly on their Talmud (eventually written down), and on the traditions of their faith. And given this, I would have imagined that, if there were a sort of Jewish migration to the Americas, that we would therefore find some evidence - scrolls in Hebrew or Aramaic, Stars of David, something.

What makes the Book of Mormon more authentic than archaeology?

Last question, could you clarify please? I think what you are asking is why Mormons are so focused on calling themselves Christian?

No. I mean, Mormons seem to hold fast to family values even while many Christians in other denominations simply do not. Why do you think that Mormons have avoided the moral collapse that has infected the rest of society?

 

[twopekinguys]

With pleasure, About 2 years ago, i started to question a lot in my life after a tragic accident involving my grandparents, I only sought answers that i thought could be answered as a true truthseaker. I’ve never “left” the Mormon church but for a year or so I did decide to not be affiliated with a specific group, which ironically, lead me to the catholic forums because my grandparents are catholic. Out of love and compassion for them i decided to delve deeper into the understanding of catholicism and place my self in the church, so i made myself catholic without actually being baptized, if that makes any sense. I thought if i renounced a false religion and accepted the true church i would receive an anser to my prayers.I simply wanted truth and sought any and all means to receive it. I’m still a mormon purely out of respect for my parents, I haven’t seen enough evidence to deter me away and haven’t found enough evidence to lead me to another church. But i am open minded and am willing to listen and learn. Hope this makes sense, that was a rough time in my life so a lot of my past posts will be, one day im catholic, the next protestant, the next buddhist. But I do attend the LDS church each sunday and am still looking for the one true church. Hope this helps

Fair enough

 

[EdGraveline]

I would like to know more about the Great Apostasy. If Jesus said, “The gates of hell shall not prevail against my church” and “I will be with you always, even unto the end of the age” and “I will not leave you orphans”, then was Jesus lying when he said these things?

And you look at Luke 11:33, where you are supposed to put your lamp on a lampstand, and not under a bushel basket.
Then you have history - Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, and the list goes on. There was no glass table top with broken legs. The blood of the martyrs fed the growth of the Church in the first 300 years prior to the Edict of Milan in 313 ad.
It never died. In fact it grew.
That is why today there are 1.2 billion Catholics, the direct descendents of the Apostles and Early Church Fathers.

 

[ErinGoBragh]

Thank you. So how do you specifically view the statement made in the General Conference quote given?

Also, how do you view the teaching that God has not always been God, but progressed to Godhood, as taught in the King Follett Discourse in another early General Conference?

"The day of the Lamanites is nigh. For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised (2 Ne. 30:6). In this picture of the twenty Lamanite missionaries, fifteen of the twenty were as light as Anglos; five were darker but equally delightsome. The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation.

At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl—sixteen—sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents—on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather. There was the doctor in a Utah city who for two years had had an Indian boy in his home who stated that he was some shades lighter than the younger brother just coming into the program from the reservation. These young members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness. One white elder jokingly said that he and his companion were donating blood regularly to the hospital in the hope that the process might be accelerated."

As mentioned before, VERY recently have members started to say that now it’s all about the “spiritual” darkness of people rather than their skin color. I think this and the 1978 revelation showed Mormons that skin color doesn’t make a man evil, it’s his heart and his own ambitions that make a man evil. So pre 1978 probably even pre 1990 tbh most mormons believed that your skin color determined your faithfullness.

We believe in something thats called “continuing revelation” so in theory, any doctrine can be amended or built upon according to God’s Will.

How i view the statement, it’s a lack of revelation and a lack of clarity. The church knows now that a persons skin color does not effect their faith. And that is of course what i believe also.

The king fallot discourse, read it on my mission, don’t really have a problem with it. There’s a word coined by mormons that is used quite frequently, its “eternal progression”. We’ve been taught since nursery that our end goal is to be like God and live with our families forever. The church likes to use the name “Heavenly Father” instead of God to help solidify this goal. Its easier for a person to want to be a like someone that they can relate to. For instance, Christ came down, had a body, bled like us, ate like us, dreamed like us. Relatable. In order for us to become like God, He needed to become relatable. That’s where Joseph Smith had the revelation at King Fallots funeral.

So the church teaches that God was once a man like us, who worshiped and worked and raised a family just like us. Then eventually became exalted and was able to “organize” our world with the goal of making us like Him, Heirs of His kingdom, literal sons and daughters of God. And in turn, become God’s ourselves (but still worship God of course)

 

[ErinGoBragh]

1 of the 9 versions of smiths visions says that God/Jesus told smith that all the other churches had it wrong. Not that there was an apostacy. So who is lying, Jesus or smith?

neither, wouldn’t Christ telling smith that all the churches were wrong indicate an apostasy?

 

[ErinGoBragh]

I have a bunch of questions but you have to promise not to get offended because I really don’t know that much about Mormonism.

1. 
   *]What’s the difference between the concept of the Godhood in Mormonism and concept of the Trinity in Mainstream Christianity?
   *]Do Mormons believe God was once a man, who became God after He died?
   *]Kolob, do Mormons believe in it?
   *]Do Mormons believe God and Jesus were polygamists?
   *]Do Mormons believe you can become a God with your own planet?
   *]Why can’t Mormons drink coffee, tea, and hot drinks?
   *]Do Mormons believe Jesus and Lucifer/Satan were spirit brothers?
   *]Do Mormons believe Jesus came to the Americas to preach to the natives (who were israelites?)
   *]Do Mormons believe in exorcisms?
   *]Is it true Mormons believe in three Heavens instead of the mainstream Christian concepts of Heaven and Hell?

1. 
   I don’t get offended, trust me, i’ve had a stuttering problem my whole life and a disease that doesn’t allow me to gain weight very easily. i’ve had my share of hardships, i’ve learned to live love laugh
   
   I’ll answer your questions the best way i can, i don’t claim to be an expert in “main” stream christianity however so ill just give you the LDS doctrine and you can compare it to the main stream doctrine.
   1. The Church’s first article of faith states, “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” These three beings make up the Godhead. They preside over this world and all other creations of our Father in Heaven. What does that mean? It means they are 3 distinct and separate beings but 1 in purpose. Together they make up the Godhead.
   2. Yes, we learned this through the King Follett discourse.
   3. Yes, we just believe that it is the closest “star” to heaven.
   4. Thats a tough one, Jesus no but God, in a sense, yes. Heavenly mother isn’t talked about much in the church and this doctrine hasn’t really been “taught” but generally yes for God.
   5. Yes, but only by entering the highest degree of glory and being sealed to a wife.
   6. That is through a revelation known as the Word of Wisdom in the 89th section of the Doctrine and Covenants. You can read it online at LDS.Org in the scripture section for a full detail on why. It’s not that long
   7. Yes, we believe we are all brothers and sisters but that Jesus and Lucifer were 2 of the greatest amoung us. Lucifer fell out of favor when he tried to take the glory away from God.
   8. Yes, 3 Nephi in the Book of Mormon has Christ coming to the America’s and preaching to them
   9. Yes, we give what are called “blessings” and we believe that through the power of Jesus Christ, we can cast them out. Here’s an example taken from church history.
   “Joseph Smith, knowing the Knights were ready to join the Church, went to Colesville to preach. His challenge to Newel Knight to pray vocally led to Newel’s being attacked by an evil spirit which lifted him from the floor “and tossed [him] about most fearfully” (HC 1:82). Neighbors gathered and saw Joseph Smith cast the devil out by the authority of Jesus Christ. Newel felt sudden relief, and Joseph considered this dramatic exercise of priesthood power to be the first miracle performed in the Restored Church (see HC 1:83-84). Newel accepted baptism, becoming the first of more than 60 of the Knight clan who joined the Church.”
   1. Yes, there are also 3 “glories” within the celestial kingdom which is the highest kingdom

 

[ErinGoBragh]

Whar is the LDS position on Adam’s and Eve’s belly button?

They both had the most beautiful and perfectly sized belly buttons in all the world!!!

 

[kimg901]

neither, wouldn’t Christ telling smith that all the churches were wrong indicate an apostasy?

No because it would mean Jesus was not telling the truth the first time.

This is so funny because some missionaries just came by and they couldnt answer my questions too!!!

Of course they gave me the b.o.m. But im actually going to try and re-read it because I GAVE THOSE YOUNG MEN MY PROMISE AND i AINT NO LIAR!!!

 

[ErinGoBragh]

So at this point we’ve then reached the point where the LDS matches the Catholics, and now the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church, right?

In other words, according to Mormon theology, there will be no more apostasies because the current LDS are “the final dispensation”? I wonder how fundamentalist LDS and other secessionists sects would feel about that.

I would assume they feel the same way that protestants do

What makes me curious is that the Jews generally kept good records almost everywhere they went. Even after the time of Jesus, the Jews focused greatly on their Talmud (eventually written down), and on the traditions of their faith. And given this, I would have imagined that, if there were a sort of Jewish migration to the Americas, that we would therefore find some evidence - scrolls in Hebrew or Aramaic, Stars of David, something.

What makes the Book of Mormon more authentic than archaeology?

That’s a very logical point. How i view it is that Lehi (the prophet in question) was in Jerusalem calling many to repentance. Was he the only one? probably not. imagine the Jews trying to control and write down every person preaching the “word” of God. Also, we are taught that Lehi left Jerusalem around 600BC right before Jerusalem was to be destroyed. Its very possible that a small family (probably deemed crazy) left Jerusalem and no record was made of it by the Jewish leaders. However, because Jews are great records keeper, thats how we have the Book of Mormon today, through the diligent recording keeping of this Hebrew family.

Here’s the reason many people in the church hold fast to the book of mormon. We have been taught since birth that the book of mormon is true. we have been taught that if the book of mormon is true, joseph smith is a true prophet. we have been taught that if joseph smith is a true prophet, then he really has restored the church of Christ.

See what im getting at? The evidence will come eventually, is the belief of most mormons as long as they know that the book of mormon is true.

No. I mean, Mormons seem to hold fast to family values even while many Christians in other denominations simply do not. Why do you think that Mormons have avoided the moral collapse that has infected the rest of society?

One of the greatest things about the LDS church is its “community” style feel. Families are a BIG factor in the church. We sing about families being together forever, we seal families for all eternity in the Temple. Once you are in the church, you immediately have friends and are basically one giant family. Families are embedded in church doctrine and are always talked about in General Conference. I guess the reason why mormons tend to hold onto family values more than other denominations is because the family unit holds more merit to them. Without their family, they can’t enter the highest degree of glory in the celestial kingdom.

 

[7armyrugrats]

What do Mormons believe about birth control and abortion? I’m curious because most Mormon families I have met also have a large number of kids. Several other military families are LDS, and usually they ask me if I am too when they see me out with my 8 kids. I don’t get offended, And it doesn’t seem to offend them when I tell them I’m Catholic. But I have always wondered about their views on family planning

 

[ErinGoBragh]

I would like to know more about the Great Apostasy. If Jesus said, “The gates of hell shall not prevail against my church” and “I will be with you always, even unto the end of the age” and “I will not leave you orphans”, then was Jesus lying when he said these things?

And you look at Luke 11:33, where you are supposed to put your lamp on a lampstand, and not under a bushel basket.
Then you have history - Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Rome, Polycarp, Justin Martyr, and the list goes on. There was no glass table top with broken legs. The blood of the martyrs fed the growth of the Church in the first 300 years prior to the Edict of Milan in 313 ad.
It never died. In fact it grew.
That is why today there are 1.2 billion Catholics, the direct descendents of the Apostles and Early Church Fathers.

I in no way wish to offend anyone with the doctrine of the LDS church, i am simply stating what we believe. now on to your concerns.

The gates of hell shall not prevail against my church" and “I will be with you always, even unto the end of the age” and “I will not leave you orphans”, then was Jesus lying when he said these things?

This still stands true in the LDS church, we believe that God never has nor ever will abandon his church. The church believes that God has opened the way for believers to accept the faith even after death through baptisms for the dead. Thus fulfilling the words of Jesus by not leaving orphans and not leaving the church.

I am extremely grateful to the early church fathers for preserving the faith and the knowledge of God. I believe that the sacrifice of martyrs, those who were persecuted are blessed and followed the will of God. It is because of these brave souls that the word of God or even the belief in God was preserved. I am eternally thankful to the early church fathers and to those who stand up for God in the presence of Adversity.

 

[ErinGoBragh]

No because it would mean Jesus was not telling the truth the first time.

This is so funny because some missionaries just came by and they couldnt answer my questions too!!!

Of course they gave me the b.o.m. But im actually going to try and re-read it because I GAVE THOSE YOUNG MEN MY PROMISE AND i AINT NO LIAR!!!

I guess i’m just confused by your reasoning, why would that make Jesus a liar?

 

[ErinGoBragh]

What do Mormons believe about birth control and abortion? I’m curious because most Mormon families I have met also have a large number of kids. Several other military families are LDS, and usually they ask me if I am too when they see me out with my 8 kids. I don’t get offended, And it doesn’t seem to offend them when I tell them I’m Catholic. But I have always wondered about their views on family planning

Birth control is a very sacred and personal matter between the husband and wife and God. When and how many, are questions that can only be answered through prayer and fasting. The church does not set a limit or a “quota” for how many children one can have. It is taught that intimacy between a lawfully wedded husband and wife is not only for producing children but also for strengthening the bonds of marriage.

And for abortion, generally speaking, and i do mean generally, abortion is frowned upon and should be the VERY last resort. Only in extreme cases such as the health of both the mother and child or through forced sexual intercourse (to my knowledge but i could be wrong)

 

[jediliz]

Of course not. The reason Joseph Smith needed to restore the church is because of the Great Apostasy.

There was no “Great Apostasy”. You have been deceived.

And anyway, why would Jesus wait 1800 years? He left the Apostles in charge and they weren’t stupid, they chose successors!

 

[kimg901]

I guess i’m just confused by your reasoning, why would that make Jesus a liar?

For an apostacy to have happened, Jesus would have to be a liar. Jesus gave us His Church only to leave it? And if there was an apostacy, how do you use the KJB if no authority was on earth for it to be written?

 

[ErinGoBragh]

And thank you 7armyrugrats for your service and sacrifice, I have 3 cousins and a brother in the military right now and i actually hope to join the Navy once i’m done with school. You’re sacrifice and service are greatly appreciated