Ask A Mormon

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My 3rd question concerns the witness statements.  The book of Mormon contains only printed names.  I searched the internet and all I could find was a printers copy.  Is there any basis in the claim that there ever was a document with signatures?  If so where is it now?  How could they lose the original but still have a printers copy?
According to Royal Skousen (a BYU professor) the “three witnesses statement” was written by Oliver Cowdrey and the “eight witnesses statement” was written by Joseph Smith.

You can read what his explanations at Times and Seasons in Who Authored the three-witness statement? and in Who authored the eight-witness statement

I give very little (if any) credence to these statements considering their provenance.
 
And even with that principle and teaching, the history of God’s dealing with mankind is that he has made exclusions before (don’t mix with those people over there. Ok, Peter now it is ok to preach to the Gentiles. Women, don’t speak in the Church. Women should now officiate in the liturgy…etc).
Diversion that it is, it must be something emphasized in the LDS church these days, because so many members here go on about how no one was supposed to preach to the gentiles until Peter. How do they miss Christ’s command in the Gospels???
 
LDS believe that murder cannot be forgiven. D&C 42:18

eom.byu.edu/index.php/Murder
**Murder violates the sanctity of life and cuts off the ability of its victims to “work out their destiny” (Benson, p. 355). Moreover, because “man cannot restore life,” and restoration or restitution is a necessary step for repentance, obtaining forgiveness for murder is impossible (Kimball, 1969, p. 129; D&C 42:18-19). **
But you can pray for permission to murder your baby:rolleyes:
 
Regarding D&C 42:18, there is room for a nuanced discussion on this topic. That verse is addressed “to the church” and may possibly refer to those who have already accepted the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The Book of Mormon tells of an instance were a group of Lamanites were forgiven of earlier murders when they accepted the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The story goes on to say that those converts refused to take up weapons in self defense so that they wouldn’t be tempted to return to their murderous ways.
Really nuanced? No matter how you “nuance” it what it boils down to is that Christ’s sacrifice is insufficient.
 
Here is a question I just thought of (forgive me if I’ve asked this before, but it’s a really important question and point to me):

LDS believe that one of the signs of the Great Apostasy is the changing of ordinances/sacraments. For example, LDS point to baptism as performed in the New Testament, and say that it was immersion. When pouring was introduced as a method for baptism, this is viewed as a sign of apostasy. There are multiple sources by LDS apologists and scholars, as well as official sources, that point to this as an important evidence of the restoration, since LDS allegedly restored the true original practice of baptism by full immersion (ignoring of course that Catholics/Orthodox have always practiced baptism by immersion, allowing pouring to be an additional mode, as we see in the East baptism are practically all practiced by immersion, so it was never lost).

The problem with this is that the LDS Church itself has had various evolutions in ordinances throughout its short history. For example, the Initiatory washing and anointing is not performed in the same manner today as it was performed prior to 2005. There is a clear change in the form or mode of performing the washing and anointing (I won’t get into it in this thread since some LDS may view that as too much info, however I’m sure the LDS and ex-LDS posters know what I’m talking about), just like the alleged change from baptism by immersion to pouring. So, how do you view that comparison in changing of an ordinance? Is this a sign of the LDS Church being in apostasy since it has changed various ordinances, ordinances believed to have been revealed by God?

If the answer is, the LDS Church has the authority to make those changes, and that presumably they were revealed changes, then why can’t the Catholics similarly claim that they had/have the authority to make changes to the ordinances/sacraments in the same way?
 
Diversion that it is, it must be something emphasized in the LDS church these days, because so many members here go on about how no one was supposed to preach to the gentiles until Peter. How do they miss Christ’s command in the Gospels???
Agreed.
 
  1. Did the Mormon Church investigate the Bible, as to the books that were included in it? Did the Mormon Church look at books that were not included in the Bible, for example, the Gospel of Thomas or the Apocalypse of Peter to ensure that the Bible was complete? After all, the Church that established the canon of the Bible was in Apostasy, so it would seem to me that the Mormon Church should have done its own review. Or is there a revelation from the Lord to Joseph Smith or some other leader telling them that it is ok to use the Bible? If it a revelation, could you please cite it?
D&C 91 is a revelation dictated by Joseph Smith that speaks of the Apocrypha. Joseph Smith also did a long review of the King James Bible, what is referred to as the Inspired Translation. It is not published regularly as an independent volume by the LDS Church but references to it are noted in the footnotes of the LDS publication of the King James Bible. Many of the revelations of Joseph Smith came through that review process as he questioned the Lord in prayer about the meaning of passages.
 
  1. Please review the following passages; I will have questions concerning them at the end:
[Jacob and DC 132 references]

The questions that I have from the above passages are these:
First, there seems to be a direct contradiction between the two passages; In the book of Jacob, the wives and concubines are “abominable before me(The Lord)” while in the Doctrine and Covenant, David’s wives and concubines “were given unto him of me”(Again, the Lord). How does Mormon Church reconcile the two passages? Does it teach that the Lord gave an abomination to David?

Second, in the Doctrine and Covenants, there is a passage (132:4) that says that if the Mormon Church does not follow the “new and everlasting covenant” that it will be “damned”. The Mormon Church does not currently follow the statutes concerning wives and concubines as outlined in Chapter 132 of the Doctrine and Covenants, the chapter that contains the warning to follow the covenant or be “damned”. What is the Mormon Church’s teaching about why it does not follow the principle and doctrine concerning wives and concubines contained in the Doctrine and Covenants, Chapter 132?
The context of the two different passages is important for interpretation but honestly as an objective reader I can still see the contradiction as it relates to David, but here is how Mormons interpret the two passages:

Jacob was preaching against the unauthorized taking of multiple wives that was occurring right in front of him, so we can expect his language to be strongly against the practice if he is seeking to curb the behavior. I have seen the punctuation in verse 24 debated before (there was no punctuation in the original manuscript) arguing that the abomination was the concubines, I personally don’t subscribe to that as a satisfactory explanation. The key verse in Jacob as it relates to the Mormon understanding of D&C 132 is verse 30, “For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will command my people; otherwise they shall hearken unto these things.” and ‘these things’ is referring to statements in verse 27 &28, “For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none. For I, the Lord God, delight in the chastity of women.” So the interpretation is the general rule is one man - one woman but the Lord says he may command his people to take multiple wives with the reason being “to raise up seed unto me.”

D&C 132 follows the same basic argument but in that context the Lord is explaining why he is instructing the exception to the rule. So verse 29, speaking of Abraham having multiple wives, “Abraham received all things, whatesoever he received, by revelation and commandment, by my word” and then the passage continues about the “seed of Abraham” throughout the ages of history. v 35 “Was Abraham, therefore, under condemnation? Verily I say unto you, Nay, for I the Lord, commanded it.” then in reference to David “in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me.” Then it is described that David was commanded to take additional wives through Nathan the prophet but in the case of Uriah and Bathsheba he sinned because it was not by the law through the Lord’s servant Nathan. Later in the revelation the Lord hints at another reason he would give such a commandment, v51 “for I did it, saith the Lord, to prove you all, as I did Abraham, and that I might require an offering at your hand, by covenant and sacrifice.”

From a faithful Mormon perspective looking back at the history of polygamy in the 1800’s the general conclusion is the Lord commanded it, nobody was particularly excited about it and it was hard. And the understanding of the Lord’s purpose in making the commandment was that it was to “raise up seed,” part of the “restoration of all things” and as an Abrahamic test. The effect was a division in the Church and those willing to accept it as being of God went to be extremely loyal, enduring the challenges of crossing the plains and starting from scratch in the deserts of the West. It might not have produced a population boom in terms of numbers of seed but it certainly built up generations of faithful followers who were willing to sacrifice for the kingdom of God. Many of the Church’s leadership, even up to this day, are descendants of polygamous families in the 1800’s. So I think the general sentiment of modern Mormons is “I’m glad I didn’t have to live then, I don’t know if I could have done it” but also a deep respect for those pioneers and their obedience to the commandment. There is general acceptance that polygamy is at times approved by the Lord but what that means for the eternities is largely speculation with most hoping that it was only an earthly necessity while bracing themselves if it might be a continued pattern in the eternities and others openly convinced that it must be the pattern in heaven due to the balance of the righteous number of men and women in the Church. In my interactions with mainstream Mormons I have never heard as openly expressed sincere desire that polygamy be reinstated.
 
  1. The following sections from the Book of Mormon contain references to chariots: Alma 18: 9, 10, 12: 3 Nephi 3:22 and 21: 14.
    Chariots, by definition, have wheels. When the first European explorers came to the Americas after Columbus’ discovery, they remarked that the native population did not use wheels, except as ceremonial devices. I understand that the Book of Mormon tells of a massive battle and many people died. Even so, it seems strange to me that the remaining native populations would lose the knowledge of wheels, since they are so simple (as opposed to, say, the internal combustion engine) and so superior to the sledges that the European explorers noted that the native population were using. What does the Mormon Church and its archeologists say about the loss of this knowledge?
I’ve asked some of these questions to other Mormons, without a satisfactory reply.

Thank you for your time.
I think it is a problem of translation into English and the revelation going through the mind of Joseph Smith who communicated those revelations in the scriptural language he knew - that of the King James Bible. In the case of chariots in the Book of Mormon I think it is interesting to note how rare they are mentioned, that they are no mention of wheels, no description of being pulled by an animal, that they are not described when talking about journeying and are only associated with kings and war. So I think it is a case of modern readers imposing images of Ben Hur and the Romans as they read the text. I think the real activity behind the translation was probably something more akin to a litter or king carrier. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litter_(vehicle

Here is a thorough response about chariots: en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Anachronisms/Chariots
 
If the answer is, the LDS Church has the authority to make those changes, and that presumably they were revealed changes, then why can’t the Catholics similarly claim that they had/have the authority to make changes to the ordinances/sacraments in the same way?
Your critique is fair and certainly both groups can claim and defend their claim of authority. It ultimately comes down to each individual to weigh those claims, seek for knowledge, and make a choice.
 
D&C 91 is a revelation dictated by Joseph Smith that speaks of the Apocrypha. Joseph Smith also did a long review of the King James Bible, what is referred to as the Inspired Translation. It is not published regularly as an independent volume by the LDS Church but references to it are noted in the footnotes of the LDS publication of the King James Bible. Many of the revelations of Joseph Smith came through that review process as he questioned the Lord in prayer about the meaning of passages.
The Textus Receptus shows the error of falling for that…
 
I think it is a problem of translation into English and the revelation going through the mind of Joseph Smith who communicated those revelations in the scriptural language he knew - that of the King James Bible. In the case of chariots in the Book of Mormon I think it is interesting to note how rare they are mentioned, that they are no mention of wheels, no description of being pulled by an animal, that they are not described when talking about journeying and are only associated with kings and war. So I think it is a case of modern readers imposing images of Ben Hur and the Romans as they read the text. I think the real activity behind the translation was probably something more akin to a litter or king carrier. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litter_(vehicle

Here is a thorough response about chariots: en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Anachronisms/Chariots
lol…I love it when, knowing they have nothing valid to argue with, they argue with an LDS apologetics website.

That is like us having an argument about whether Ford is better than Chevy and I send you to a Ford website to prove my point that Ford is better.

Get us some true scholarship or admit you have nothing valid.
 
Your critique is fair and certainly both groups can claim and defend their claim of authority. It ultimately comes down to each individual to weigh those claims, seek for knowledge, and make a choice.
So what do many Mormons have against people who have weighed the claims of Mormonism, and found them wanting?
 
Your critique is fair and certainly both groups can claim and defend their claim of authority. It ultimately comes down to each individual to weigh those claims, seek for knowledge, and make a choice.
Actually, Mormons cannot REASONABLY defend their claim to authority. Your comment is like the guy off the street who makes a claim he is the billionaire’s son and when all his claims fall through, he says, “Your critique is fair and certainly both of us can claim and defend their claim of authority.”
 
That is like us having an argument about whether Ford is better than Chevy and I send you to a Ford website to prove my point that Ford is better.
The thread is entitled “Ask a Mormon,” an apologist response is perfectly legitimate as a way to explain what Mormons think of an issue. If you wanted to know what Ford thought of their own cars then their website would be a good place to start.
 
So what do many Mormons have against people who have weighed the claims of Mormonism, and found them wanting?
Nothing, it is one of our basic tenets, “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.” All are welcome to their conclusions and to voice their opinion on the matter, as are we. That doesn’t mean that we have to roll over and not defend our beliefs in the public square, “being ready always to satisfy every one that asketh you a reason of that hope which is in you.”
 
Your critique is fair and certainly both groups can claim and defend their claim of authority. It ultimately comes down to each individual to weigh those claims, seek for knowledge, and make a choice.
Thank you. I agree.

I also think that this shows that that specific apologetic argument (that the Catholics changed baptism from immersion to pouring (again noting that the Catholics accept both), therefore that’s a sign of apostasy) is flawed, as it can be applied to the LDS Church itself as well, in the case of the temple Initiatory washing and anointing, and the Endowment.
 
I make this thread in the hopes that as a whole, we can better understand someone’s religion who is still affiliated with them. I’ve noticed a lot of threads about the Mormon Church and so I wanted to start this thread to answer any questions that someone might have about the faith.

I am a return missionary currently attending BYU, was born and raised in the covenant and attend church every week. I will do my best to answer any question to the best ability of a typical mormon. I’ll be truthful with my answers and won’t sugar coat anything. If I don’t know the answer, I’ll tell you. You can know what the church is teaching now, what it taught, and why the changes.

The only thing i do ask however, is that you refrain from questions regarding sacred promises and acts within the temple. We believe we have made a promise not to indulge what goes on purely out of respect for God and His Holy Temple.

Also, HUGE reason we believe things that we do is because we have first gained a testimony in the Book of Mormon, that Joseph Smith is a true prophet and has restored Christ’s church on the earth.

Also, i apologize if i can’t get to everyone’s questions, hopefully there are other LDS here who are willing to provide answers for you also.
The LDS once taught that the longer a person of color would practice the religion, then the whiter their skin would become. For some reason, this teaching is not longer put forth. Do you know why it was taught, and why it is no longer taught?
 
D&C 91 is a revelation dictated by Joseph Smith that speaks of the Apocrypha. Joseph Smith also did a long review of the King James Bible, what is referred to as the Inspired Translation. It is not published regularly as an independent volume by the LDS Church but references to it are noted in the footnotes of the LDS publication of the King James Bible. Many of the revelations of Joseph Smith came through that review process as he questioned the Lord in prayer about the meaning of passages.
If the KJV is the divinely inspired one, why wasn’t it the original translation?
  1. It’s been mentioned before, but how do Mormons justify the Book of Mormon with Galatians 1:8? The same question can be asked of Revelation 22:18. Our point is just that the Book of Mormon seems like an addition to the Bible, which would go against these verses
  2. How do Mormons justify the King Follett Discourse? Specifically with Isaish 44:6. God makes it clear that he is the only God.
  3. What do Mormons believe about evolution?
  4. On a similar note, what do they think of a round Earth v a flat Earth? I ask because one of my friends back home is Mormon and believes in a flat Earth, so I’ve been wondering the official position
 
The thread is entitled “Ask a Mormon,” an apologist response is perfectly legitimate as a way to explain what Mormons think of an issue. If you wanted to know what Ford thought of their own cars then their website would be a good place to start.
Is FAIR an official representative of the LDS church? Do they have the authority to speak for the LDS church?
 
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