Ask A Mormon

[RebeccaJ]

i am still waiting for an answer to my question of why mormons believe that the angel moroni was sent to joseph smith by a benevolent being instead of by a malevolent being? this is particularly relevant to a discussion of mormonism for those of us who believe it was moroni’s intent to destroy the RCC, the primary source of God’s grace in the world.

They believe benevolent because they believe what they are taught and have a good feeling about what they believe (burning in the bosom). The don’t believe they would have this “burning in the bosom” if Moroni was malevolent. That’s the only answer I’ve ever seen.

 

[talter]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen this asked or answered anywhere (if it has been asked already or someone has seen it else where I apologize) so I might as well ask. My understanding is that the LDS believe that the “true” church must have apostles and prophets, thus the need for the restoration because no church had them after the death of the 12 apostles. So that leads me to believe that according to LDS thought a church without a prophet or apostles is in apostasy, no ifs, ands, or buts about it. I believe that the LDS view St. Peter as the first prophet and that there were no others after him as there was no handing off of the keys to someone else (obviously we as Catholics believe other wise ) So now that I have given my starting point of understanding, now here’s my 2 questions (for now).

Is it possible for the church to survive for any length of time without a prophet or apostles to be able to communicate with and receive teaching from? Also in the bible we see that from time to time people give prophesies that are not leaders of the church (Sarah, Miriam, come to mind), there is to my knowledge never a situation where there is more than one leader of the church so there is a distinction to be made between the office and the prophetic gift. Can there ever be more than one leader (prophet) of the true church of Christ in LDS thought?

 

[St_Redemption]

We cannot redeem ourselves, if we could, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ would not be necessary.

amen

 

[zaffiroborant]

Please stop arguing and bashing, ErinGoBragh mtolympus are doing us a favor here! They offered to answer our legitimate questions not be badgered; that’s un-Catholic! If you have a legit question ask it, but don’t attack. They have the right to believe what ever they want.

How is it un-Catholic to present the the Catholic understanding? And in what way does anything anyone here says interfere with their right to believe what they want? People may have a right to believe what they want, they do not have a right to expect that those beliefs won’t be questioned, challenged and flat out disbelieved. Catholics have just as much right to their beliefs and the right, particularly on a Catholic board to present and defend them.

 

[andy92]

correcting bad doctrine is not bashing. It is doing what God called us to do.

I did mean about the bad doctrine. I understand most all the LDS doctrine and how contrary it is to Catholicism I mean the non-topic arguments. I didn’t mean to insinuate that.

I meant the sarcasm, Im fine with sardonic comments but I was reading some that I didn’t think represent the Catholic Church well.

 

[andy92]

"In the pre-mortal life, Adam was the archangel Michael."Link

“In Mormon theology, Gabriel is believed to have lived a mortal life as the prophet Noah.” Link

“I met with a very remarkable personage who had represented himself as being Cain … I suddenly noticed a very strange personage walking beside me … for about two hours. … He wore no clothing but was covered with hair. His skin was very dark. … I rebuked him in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by virtue of the Holy Priesthood, and commanded him to go hence and he immediately departed out of my sight.“ Link

Thanks

 

[LDSYep]

Is it possible for the church to survive for any length of time without a prophet or apostles to be able to communicate with and receive teaching from?

In LDS theology, the keys of the priesthood, and the authority thereof, are held by, and active in, the Prophet. The Twelve hold these same keys and authority, but in a dormant state while the Prophet lives. The priesthood keys and authority used by the rest of the Church are by delegation of keys and authority held by these men. Thus priesthood keys and authority disappear in the absence of the Prophet and the Twelve.

We also believe that the Twelve are special witnesses of Christ whose charge mainly includes the responsibility to maintain the proper belief in, and practice of, Christ’s Gospel. The books between the Gospels and Revelation constitutes example of the apostles doing such. The Church struggled with straying in the presence of the Apostles and Prophet. I do not know how quickly the Church fell away following the death of the Apostles, but I do not believe that the Church can survive for long without them.

Also in the bible we see that from time to time people give prophesies that are not leaders of the church (Sarah, Miriam, come to mind), there is to my knowledge never a situation where there is more than one leader of the church so there is a distinction to be made between the office and the prophetic gift. Can there ever be more than one leader (prophet) of the true church of Christ in LDS thought?

We believe that anyone can be a prophet. We believe, however, that each person can only receive revelation, from God, for those whom we have authority over. Thus, I can receive revelation for my family and for those that fall under my position within the Church. With regards to those who fall under my position within the Church, I cannot receive revelation beyond the scope of said position. If I were a Sunday School teacher, the revelation I would receive would only be in regards to teaching the material, not in regards to adding to the material. Also, as a Sunday School teacher I would not receive revelation outside of teaching with regards to those in my class. A Bishop can receive revelation for his ward, but such revelation again is limited in scope as well. A Bishop cannot receive revelation that adds to, alters or conflicts with doctrines of the Church, such is beyond the scope of his position. Care should be taken with regard to personal revelation, the following is an excerpt from a talk on the subject:

How to Know if Revelation Is from the Lord, HARTMAN RECTOR, JR., 6 January 1976

Here is how to know if an idea is from God:

1. *]Is it within the bounds and limitations of your calling, and does it require a service consistent with your calling? *]Is it consistent with the revealed word of God? The scriptures and the directions of the living prophet of God today—those are the revealed words of God. *]Is the receiver of the communication a fit receptacle? Is he in condition to receive such a communication from the Lord? *]Does the communication edify and cause you to rejoice? *]Does it cause your bosom to burn or speak peace to your soul, or are you left troubled by the communication? *]Is the communication vivid to the understanding, or does it leave a cloud or a hazy impression?

1. 
   I hope this answers your question.

 

[eddie_too]

as i understand it, the lds teaches that the Church Jesus founded lost its way some time in the first two hundred or so years; and, the lds is that church restored.

my question has two parts. first, why restore something that did not work the first time? second, why would something that did not work the first time, if restored not fail just as it did the first time?

 

[TexanKnight]

In LDS theology, the keys of the priesthood, and the authority thereof, are held by, and active in, the Prophet. The Twelve hold these same keys and authority, but in a dormant state while the Prophet lives.

Actually, there are 15, including prophet…something NOT Biblical…and very strange since LDS Church claims to be like the original church

We also believe that the Twelve (15) are special witnesses of Christ whose charge mainly includes the responsibility to maintain the proper belief in, and practice of, Christ’s Gospel. The books between the Gospels and Revelation constitutes example of the apostles doing such. The Church struggled with straying in the presence of the Apostles and Prophet. I do not know how quickly the Church fell away following the death of the Apostles, but I do not believe that the Church can survive for long without them.

Luckily, they did not have to. Just as the LDS Church passes on alleged authority, so did the Original 12. They were not stupid. They knew they needed to. They passed on authority that has been passed for over 2000 years

We believe that anyone can be a prophet. We believe, however, that each person can only receive revelation, from God, for those whom we have authority over. Thus, I can receive revelation for my family and for those that fall under my position within the Church. With regards to those who fall under my position within the Church, I cannot receive revelation beyond the scope of said position. If I were a Sunday School teacher, the revelation I would receive would only be in regards to teaching the material, not in regards to adding to the material. Also, as a Sunday School teacher I would not receive revelation outside of teaching with regards to those in my class. A Bishop can receive revelation for his ward, but such revelation again is limited in scope as well. A Bishop cannot receive revelation that adds to, alters or conflicts with doctrines of the Church, such is beyond the scope of his position. Care should be taken with regard to personal revelation, the following is an excerpt from a talk on the subject:

That sounds very nice. And it might actually work if we did not have record of all the strange and invalid revelations from your past prophets.

I hope this answers your question.

thank you for your comments. and welcome

 

[kimg901]

In LDS theology, the keys of the priesthood, and the authority thereof, are held by, and active in, the Prophet. The Twelve hold these same keys and authority, but in a dormant state while the Prophet lives. The priesthood keys and authority used by the rest of the Church are by delegation of keys and authority held by these men. Thus priesthood keys and authority disappear in the absence of the Prophet and the Twelve.

We also believe that the Twelve are special witnesses of Christ whose charge mainly includes the responsibility to maintain the proper belief in, and practice of, Christ’s Gospel. The books between the Gospels and Revelation constitutes example of the apostles doing such. The Church struggled with straying in the presence of the Apostles and Prophet. I do not know how quickly the Church fell away following the death of the Apostles, but I do not believe that the Church can survive for long without them.

We believe that anyone can be a prophet. We believe, however, that each person can only receive revelation, from God, for those whom we have authority over. Thus, I can receive revelation for my family and for those that fall under my position within the Church. With regards to those who fall under my position within the Church, I cannot receive revelation beyond the scope of said position. If I were a Sunday School teacher, the revelation I would receive would only be in regards to teaching the material, not in regards to adding to the material. Also, as a Sunday School teacher I would not receive revelation outside of teaching with regards to those in my class. A Bishop can receive revelation for his ward, but such revelation again is limited in scope as well. A Bishop cannot receive revelation that adds to, alters or conflicts with doctrines of the Church, such is beyond the scope of his position. Care should be taken with regard to personal revelation, the following is an excerpt from a talk on the subject:

I hope this answers your question.

So you limit Gods power to give revelation to people? To limit what they can do or say? So Jesus came to me and told me “Protect His Church and then showed me a Rock in a barren field”. Would this be a revelation from Christ? Your leaders are limiting God also. Their is no need for a prophet or any new revelation, Jesus fullfilled everything.

 

[LDSYep]

Actually, there are 15, including prophet…something NOT Biblical…and very strange since LDS Church claims to be like the original church

True, thank you for the correction. We don’t claim to be the exact same as the early Church, there will be differences. The Church evolved under God’s guidance in the OT and the NT, why would you anticipate the current presentation to be exactly the same?

Luckily, they did not have to. Just as the LDS Church passes on alleged authority, so did the Original 12. They were not stupid. They knew they needed to. They passed on authority that has been passed for over 2000 years.

This is the RCC position. The claim of authority being passed to the Bishops is a claim that the LDS dispute. I personally question the why of the quick transition of authority to Bishops when the Apostles had already set precedent of calling new Apostles to fill vacant positions. Suddenly Peter gives the Apostolic authority over to the Bishops? Makes little sense to me.

That sounds very nice. And it might actually work if we did not have record of all the strange and invalid revelations from your past prophets.

That is your position, I obviously disagree.

thank you for your comments. and welcome

You are welcome and thank you.

 

[kimg901]

True, thank you for the correction. We don’t claim to be the exact same as the early Church, there will be differences. The Church evolved under God’s guidance in the OT and the NT, why would you anticipate the current presentation to be exactly the same?

This is the RCC position. The claim of authority being passed to the Bishops is a claim that the LDS dispute. I personally question the why of the quick transition of authority to Bishops when the Apostles had already set precedent of calling new Apostles to fill vacant positions. Suddenly Peter gives the Apostolic authority over to the Bishops? Makes little sense to me.

That is your position, I obviously disagree.

You are welcome and thank you.

So Christ failed the first time He made His Church? Was He a poor teacher? You are limiting God/Christ to mere mortal men. Oh, but lets not forget, God was once a sinful man who is a failure, a racist and a god that said have many wives. Please.

 

[LDSYep]

So you limit Gods power to give revelation to people? To limit what they can do or say? So Jesus came to me and told me “Protect His Church and then showed me a Rock in a barren field”. Would this be a revelation from Christ? Your leaders are limiting God also.

God can limit what he will. You believe that He has limited the revelation He will give Man. Your statement below limits “Gods power to give revelation to people” in an even more restrictive sense.

Their is no need for a prophet or any new revelation, Jesus fullfilled everything.

Why then the disarray and discord in the Christian world? It does not appear that the revelation given in the Bible is sufficient for Man.

We can argue this, but I do not see much value in such a discussion. I believe that continuing revelation is needed and you have the opposite position. I do not believe that either of us will convince the other otherwise. Please don’t pursue this as it will only come down to our personal interpretations of various scripture.

 

[Stephen168]

True, thank you for the correction. We don’t claim to be the exact same as the early Church, there will be differences. The Church evolved under God’s guidance in the OT and the NT, why would you anticipate the current presentation to be exactly the same?

Yes, why would Joseph Smith (Mormons) expect the Catholic Church to be exactly that same over 1800 years?

 

[Stephen168]

God can limit what he will.

Yes, this is the authority given to the Bishops of the Catholic Church by the Apostles almost 2000 years ago

 

[SpeSalvi]

True, thank you for the correction. We don’t claim to be the exact same as the early Church, there will be differences. The Church evolved under God’s guidance in the OT and the NT, why would you anticipate the current presentation to be exactly the same?

Hold the phone. The LDS Church takes pride in the idea that they are EXACTLY like the Church Jesus established. I have always been taught that the 12 apostles are that number because that’s how Jesus established it.

…so is the LDS Church a restoration of the Church Jesus established (right down to the very last detail), or has it strayed away from how Jesus set it up? How can you confidently say that it hasn’t once again fallen into apostasy if it has changed from the “primitive Church”?

 

[kimg901]

God can limit what he will. You believe that He has limited the revelation He will give Man. Your statement below limits “Gods power to give revelation to people” in an even more restrictive sense.

Why then the disarray and discord in the Christian world? It does not appear that the revelation given in the Bible is sufficient for Man.

We can argue this, but I do not see much value in such a discussion. I believe that continuing revelation is needed and you have the opposite position. I do not believe that either of us will convince the other otherwise. Please don’t pursue this as it will only come down to our personal interpretations of various scripture.

Exactly, men. The disarray and discord is brought on by men, not God. Men are greedy, liars, hateful. Thats why Christ gave us His Church. The devil split men, Not God. Men started other churches, churches that have no authority because of the hardened hearts of men.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Why then the disarray and discord in the Christian world?

People have been gifted by God with free will. God does not force anyone to follow Him, or His Church.

It does not appear that the revelation given in the Bible is sufficient for Man.

Catholics are not sola scriptura. Jesus is God’s Word, Perfectly revealed.

 

[Stephen168]

Why then the disarray and discord in the Christian world?

It is due to people like Joseph Smith, Martin Luther, etc being so prideful that they reject the teachings and authority of the Catholic Church, and make up their own teachings with no authority…

 

[kimg901]

Hold the phone. The LDS Church takes pride in the idea that they are EXACTLY like the Church Jesus established. I have always been taught that the 12 apostles are that number because that’s how Jesus established it.

…so is the LDS Church a restoration of the Church Jesus established (right down to the very last detail), or has it strayed away from how Jesus set it up? How can you confidently say that it hasn’t once again fallen into apostasy if it has changed from the “primitive Church”?

It has fallen. Right when joe smith said “He has done more for the church than Christ or the apostles”