Ask a Pagan

  • Thread starter Thread starter Lokabrenna
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Why is the Three-fold Law necessary? What is the foundation from which this law is based? Is the law ethical or moral?

Is there any disagreement within the neo-pagan community about the Three-fold Law?
The Threefold Law is a Wiccan concept. Wicca is a specific tradition within Paganism, and not all Pagans are Wiccan. Followers of Asatru (Norse reconstructionism) have the Nine Noble Virtues (Courage, Truth, Honour, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Perseverance, Self-Reliance, Industriousness) other Pagans will have their own ethical systems, some might not even have a codified ethical system (or at least, not one that’s ‘sound bite’ quality.

I can’t speak for Wiccans, not being Wiccan myself, but I will say that there is disagreement regarding if concepts like the Threefold Law or the Wiccan Rede (which are two different things) are even useful ethically.
 
I always have time to answer questions!

It depends what you mean by “sacrifice”. If you mean animal or human sacrifice, every Pagan that I’ve spoken to over the years is aware that animal sacrifice is now illegal in most parts of the world, as is human sacrifice. Most also recognize that we do not now live in a time where whole cities would offer sacrifices, and very few can afford to offer fifty cows to Hera (for example). Many Pagans make bloodless sacrifices (which I would term offerings), but some do (and this is a controversial subject in itself) offer their own blood to the gods.

As to the reasons for making offerings, it varies. I personally see it as a way to strengthen my relationship with the gods, in the same way that you might buy a good friend something “just because”, or as a way of saying: “For all you have given me, here is a gift in return.” I think this is where modern Pagans differ from our ancient counterparts. In my experience, at least, most gods are not seen as angry beings to be appeased with offerings (or Bad Things will happen) but offerings are one way of deepening a relationship with the gods.

As for sacrifice as a concept, Paganisms aren’t generally religions of “atonement”, that is, no one has to “die for our sins” to do so, one would have to have a concept of “sin” in the first place. Don’t get me wrong, there are ways that you can “screw up” and offend the gods (in my tradition, breaking one’s oath is a serious matter) but “atoning” for that screw up is between you and the gods (and possibly your religious community), no one else can do it for you. Again, different traditions have their own way of dealing with religious faux-pas.
Interesting. So sacrifice (offering) would generally be more seen as a bonus, a free gift rather than a duty? What if someone never makes such offerings and attempts to reap the same benefits from the deity in question? Also am I right in imagining then that sacrifice/offerings and ritual worship are less central to most contemporary paganism than they often were in antiquity? Would witchcraft and related practices on the more occult or private side of things therefore have a more central place?

What about my second question (whether or not you want to reword it as something like “honor” or whatever)?
 
The Threefold Law is a Wiccan concept. Wicca is a specific tradition within Paganism, and not all Pagans are Wiccan. Followers of Asatru (Norse reconstructionism) have the Nine Noble Virtues (Courage, Truth, Honour, Fidelity, Discipline, Hospitality, Perseverance, Self-Reliance, Industriousness) other Pagans will have their own ethical systems, some might not even have a codified ethical system (or at least, not one that’s ‘sound bite’ quality.

I can’t speak for Wiccans, not being Wiccan myself, but I will say that there is disagreement regarding if concepts like the Threefold Law or the Wiccan Rede (which are two different things) are even useful ethically.
Thanks for the honest answer. 🙂

I just thought of some other questions for you.

Do you believe the Norse gods are external or internal? Also do you believe their guidance is exoteric or esoteric? Or alternatively, do you believe the symbolism behind them is esoteric or exoteric?
 
Yes, quite right. I just didn’t think that anyone would realistically consider that a possiblity when one considers the odds of a religion as large and influential as Christianity springing from a non-existent founder. That’s quite a conspiracy. And for what purpose? So that one could be fed to lions, stoned to death, boiled in oil, or skinned alive? Or do you discount the stories of the martyrs as well, including the first 33 Popes of the Catholic Church?
Well, that is assuming that every single martyr that was written about actually existed, but I could also say the same for every Pagan who was killed because of what they believed. Heck, forget about the pagans. What about all the heretics who were burned at the stake because of what they believed? Why is it so easy for you to say “the Pagan gods didn’t exist” and accept that those people must have died in vain, but when your own religion comes up, now it’s suddenly unacceptable to imagine that your martyrs may have also died in vain? It seems a little hypocritical, from where I’m standing.
Based upon what?
Based on four years of studying religion in a godless secular university, taught by some atheists and others who didn’t care to specify their religious leanings, including a course on Gnosticism, which was taught by a professor who was/is the President of the Canadian Society for the Study of Religion and the Secretary for the American Academy of Religion. 😃 Let me just say that religious studies is nothing like theology, it’s a much younger discipline.
 
**REMINDER

**Threads like this are permitted, so long as everyone keeps in mind that they are for informational purposes only. Non-Catholics must respect the faith of Catholics and not attempt to proselytize Catholics away from their religion. Catholics must be courteous to non-Catholics, which includes refraining from baiting or mockery.

Thanks to everyone for their cooperation.
 
I also have another set of questions on a (to me at least) much lighter note. Do take your time, and definitely answer Sonic’s latest questions before you get to this, as it will put it in context.

Do you believe in the Aesir and Jotun as well as the Vanir? What about elves and dwarfs? What are the relationships between them?

I’ve generally had the concept (and I am no expert in mythology, barely even an amateur) of the Aesir representing human civilization, the Jotun representing the raw and often destructive forces of nature (Loki being something of both- useful and mischievous and ultimately ruinous, like a hearth fire that eventually burns down your house), and the Vanir representing nature as tamed and made helpful by civilization (the Aesir). I’ve generally had the impression that the early ideas of elves and dwarfs were along the lines of basically minor, perhaps mostly local spirits differing from these big three more in degree than in kind. I’ve also fancied making some sort of connection between the Olympian gods vs. the Titans and the Aesir and Vanir together vs. the Jotun. What do you think?
 
Interesting. So sacrifice (offering) would generally be more seen as a bonus, a free gift rather than a duty? What if someone never makes such offerings and attempts to reap the same benefits from the deity in question? Also am I right in imagining then that sacrifice/offerings and ritual worship are less central to most contemporary paganism than they often were in antiquity? Would witchcraft and related practices on the more occult or private side of things therefore have a more central place?

What about my second question (whether or not you want to reword it as something like “honor” or whatever)?
Sorry about that, I meant to address it and when I went to edit my post it kicked me out lol. Now to answer your questions…

It would depend on how the person in question views their deities. For some Pagans (especially those of the “hard” polytheist variety) making regular offerings is a way to “keep in touch” with the gods. Sometimes, a deity might say to someone “I would like one offering a week” or “I would like an offering of X” once a week, that would be more of a duty. A person who never makes offerings would likely be ignored by the deity that they are trying to connect to, but again, a person who sees the gods as internal forces isn’t likely to see this dilemma in the same light. I would personally say that if someone believes in an external deity and desires to have a relationship with said deity but doesn’t do the “work” required is like a Catholic who doesn’t want to attend Mass. Of course, there are circumstances that prevent people from making regular offerings (family members who don’t accept them, lack of space or privacy), in that case, I think the gods understand. It would also depend on the god, though. Some are more laid back than others, some are more demanding with their followers than others.

As for magic and witchcraft, Wicca is the best example of a religion that gives magic a central place in their tradition (although there actually are Wiccans who do not practice magic), but in other traditions, magic is more peripheral, Hellenistic (Greek) Pagans were (and often still) are quite resistant to the idea of magic. Norse Pagans have magical practices, but they are secondary (if they are even practiced at all) to the worship of the gods themselves.

Regarding your second question: Ideally, I would say that both are important, but if I absolutely had to choose, I’d be slightly in favour of the act itself, but only slightly.

Sorry, I’m trying to answer everything, but there are so. many. questions.
 
More questions… I hope you don’t mind…

Concerning your choice of belief system: Asatru…

Out of neo-pagans I’ve known in my life (friends and acquaintances), I’ve encountered three ways of approaching their belief system. A few took their belief system seriously, the other group (which I later encountered in College) chose their belief system because it was counter-cultural (but didn’t actually practice their beliefs).

The last group I didn’t encounter until I got involved on the internet. The third group consisted mostly of individuals who only practiced their belief while role playing (mostly through game personalities or fantasy identities they’d created on the internet). Outside the internet, they showed no signs of a chosen belief system.

Here’s my question… do you see yourself in one of these categories I’ve mentioned?
 
I’ve read some of Dawkins’ book “The God Delusion” and found it to be very thought-provoking, but to answer your question: I don’t think about them that much.

I believe in a lot of strange things, I admit that, and I respect the fact that some atheists think all religious people are crazy and that religion is bad for humanity (some days I even agree with them) but I don’t focus on “getting it right”, I focus on living my life now and worrying about whether there is such a thing as an afterlife, or gods, or what have you, since I figure it will all be clear enough after I die.
Good luck with that!
 
How do you know what you are doing is correct? As our knowledge of paganism in Europe has all but disappeared. And How do you trace your name back to pre christian times?
And if Jesus didn’t exist how did your gods allow a fake religion totaly to wipe them off the map, to the point where people only know their name, but know nothing of their religious practices. How do you know what you;re doing is pleasing to your gods as you don;t know what the require?
 
Thanks for the honest answer. 🙂

I just thought of some other questions for you.

Do you believe the Norse gods are external or internal? Also do you believe their guidance is exoteric or esoteric? Or alternatively, do you believe the symbolism behind them is esoteric or exoteric?
An interesting question, I believe the gods are external forces, capable of interacting with humans, but I also know that I can’t prove this to anyone, nor would I really want to (definitely not interested in converting anyone here), but I also see the gods as manifest in nature. I think, for instance, that one could see Frey as a being who lives in Asgard, as the growing grain that is cut down every year, or as a representation of frith (peace, but a sort of peace that one works for) and they would be correct. I see him as all three. However, I don’t think he’s the same deity as, say, Dionysus, even though the two deities might share attributes, nor is Freya the same as Aphrodite (even though they have much in common).

This might also be of use, but I don’t believe that the myths (as recorded in the Prose and Poetic Eddas) are to be taken literally. No, I don’t really believe that a sky cow licked a frost giant who spawned the first gods who killed the frost giant and made the earth from his body, nor do I believe that someday the gods are going to have an Epic Battle of Epicness and all be destroyed in one big throwdown against the giants. Now, you might ask how I can believe in literal deities when I don’t think the stories that are told about them are literal, but I would say that the gods are more than their myths, or, alternatively, that there is no way to tell how heavily the stories were influenced by Christianity. Do all Christians take the Bible literally? No. Do they still believe in an external, transcendent God? Yes, or at least, that’s what I was led to believe.

As far as guidance goes, well, I can tell you that there are no gods whispering in my ear at the moment, but others have had different experiences, and well, that might change in the future, you never know…

I hope this clarifies things a bit. Maybe I should write my own creed…except I’d be terrible at it 😛
 
What about all the heretics who were burned at the stake because of what they believed?
Can you please name just a few of “all the heretics” that were burned at the stake?
Why is it so easy for you to say “the Pagan gods didn’t exist” and accept that those people must have died in vain, but when your own religion comes up, now it’s suddenly unacceptable to imagine that your martyrs may have also died in vain? It seems a little hypocritical, from where I’m standing.
Well, first of all I didn’t say that, though I certainly believe that they did not exist nor do they exist today. But I find it interesting that you believe that a historical figure of the stature of Jesus Christ (who is also written about outside of Sacred Scripture) did not exist, that he was at best a mish-mash of different characters rolled into one, apparently fictitious, character, while at the same time seem to have no trouble believing in pagan gods. May I ask what evidence you have upon which you base your beliefs in these pagan gods?
Based on four years of studying religion in a godless secular university, taught by some atheists and others who didn’t care to specify their religious leanings, including a course on Gnosticism, which was taught by a professor who was/is the President of the Canadian Society for the Study of Religion and the Secretary for the American Academy of Religion. 😃 Let me just say that religious studies is nothing like theology, it’s a much younger discipline.
And you consider this a credible source as to whether or not Jesus existed or has been portrayed accurately? Have you considered gathering evidence from the other side of the fence in order to accurately weigh the evidence?
 
As far as guidance goes, well, I can tell you that there are no gods whispering in my ear at the moment, but others have had different experiences, and well, that might change in the future, you never know…

I hope this clarifies things a bit. Maybe I should write my own creed…except I’d be terrible at it 😛
Sure it does. You’re doing fine. 👍

So, no inner or exterior locutions at the moment. If such an experience were to occur, how do you suppose it would manifest? Would those locutions be open to interpretation or literal? Feel free to answer anyway you wish… including passing on any experiences you’ve heard from other people who have.

Also, if and when you do hear of such experiences, what is your initial reaction (critical skepticism or acceptance)?

How crucial a role does symbolism play in Asatru?
 
I also have another set of questions on a (to me at least) much lighter note. Do take your time, and definitely answer Sonic’s latest questions before you get to this, as it will put it in context.

Do you believe in the Aesir and Jotun as well as the Vanir? What about elves and dwarfs? What are the relationships between them?

I’ve generally had the concept (and I am no expert in mythology, barely even an amateur) of the Aesir representing human civilization, the Jotun representing the raw and often destructive forces of nature (Loki being something of both- useful and mischievous and ultimately ruinous, like a hearth fire that eventually burns down your house), and the Vanir representing nature as tamed and made helpful by civilization (the Aesir). I’ve generally had the impression that the early ideas of elves and dwarfs were along the lines of basically minor, perhaps mostly local spirits differing from these big three more in degree than in kind. I’ve also fancied making some sort of connection between the Olympian gods vs. the Titans and the Aesir and Vanir together vs. the Jotun. What do you think?
Hooray! A lighter question! (I still have so many left to answer!)

To answer your first question: Yes. To answer your second question: Yes. Your third question is a little more complicated:

I believe that the Aesir and the Vanir are allies. They joined together to form the Norse pantheon. I know of at least one other person who thinks that the Aesir are cosmic thugs who abuse the poor, innocent Vanir, but I think they get along rather well. As for the elves and dwarves, there is some debate as to whether the Vanir and the elves are related, in a sense, but I see them as separate. The elves and dwarves are powerful beings, but they don’t have the power (and scope) of the gods. There are also the wights, wight may also be a term for “god”, but in modern Heathenry a wight is usually thought of as being a tutelary spirit of something (land-wights, house-wights, etc.) who are responsible for looking after a bit of land, or a house, or a river, sort of like how Greek religion had dryads, hamadryads, naiads, etc.

Apart from that, the basic concept that you have of the gods and their relationship to life, the universe, and everything is correct, but simplistic. While it is true that the Aesir are often thought of as the “gods of civilization” in some areas, they also had spheres of influence that seemed more “Vanic” in nature. Thor, for instance, was honoured in some places as the bringer of rain that fertilizes crops, whereas (particularly in Sweden) Frey was honoured for doing the same thing. While I’m on the subject of Frey, he was also said to have sired a line of Swedish kings, and “kingship” is definitely something I would put in the “civilization” category. There’s a lot of crossover between deities in that respect.

Actually, the idea that it was originally the gods vs the jotnar (and not the Aesir vs. the Vanir) was very recently put forward by a very well-respected scholar of Norse/Germanic religion, who argued that the deities known as ‘the Vanir’ were not in fact a separate group of deities. Before I forget, I should discuss the jotnar…

The Jotnar (giants) get a bad rap among those who honour the Norse gods. I would say that there are definitely some jotnar who like to destroy things and generally don’t have any interest in humans. On the other hand, half the gods wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for the jotnar, and despite their supposed evil-ness, the gods can’t seem to stop marrying them. Apparently, male giants are evil, female giants are…well…very attractive…that said, there is a small number of people who actively worship jotnar who are not allied with the gods, but they are not looked on favourably by the Heathen community in general.

I personally don’t think that all jotnar are bad, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t believe that some just want to…smash things… 😃
 
I have some questions, in no particular order.

Your commentary led me to ask.

Is your religion compatible with science?
 
Sorry for the delay, even Pagans need sleep! I’m up now, so I might as well answer some more questions:
40.png
Sonic:
Out of neo-pagans I’ve known in my life (friends and acquaintances), I’ve encountered three ways of approaching their belief system. A few took their belief system seriously, the other group (which I later encountered in College) chose their belief system because it was counter-cultural (but didn’t actually practice their beliefs).

The last group I didn’t encounter until I got involved on the internet. The third group consisted mostly of individuals who only practiced their belief while role playing (mostly through game personalities or fantasy identities they’d created on the internet). Outside the internet, they showed no signs of a chosen belief system.

Here’s my question… do you see yourself in one of these categories I’ve mentioned?
This is a quibble, but I’m actually not Asatru. Asatru is the name for a denomination within Heathenry (which is a bit of an umbrella term in itself). Asatruar often use the term Heathen to refer to themselves (much like Wiccans use the term “Witch”) but they don’t own the term. The reason I call myself a Vanic Pagan (as opposed to a Heathen) is because I believe that Heathenry implies at least some degree of reconstruction, since I am not a reconstructionist, I shy away from using that label. I would say that the vast majority of people who worship these gods are “recons” though.

Anyways, now to your question: I would say that when I was exploring Wicca, I was definitely in my “teenage rebellion” years and looking for something meaningful, but Wicca ultimately didn’t “fit” me. I found that I was disgusted by all the pseudo-history that was being banded about as fact. I wanted a tradition that valued both scholarship and the lived experiences of their adherents. However, I’ve found that many recons almost seem to worship the eddas as if they had the authority of the Bible, and I don’t think this is the right way to go either. At this moment, I would say that yes, I do take my beliefs seriously, but I think many people go through a stage where they’re trying to figure out where they belong. Some will decide it isn’t for them and move on, others will find their place and grow and mature within it.

I should say something about my stance on how my gods are portrayed in popular culture. I know of some Pagans who become offended whenever their gods are even mentioned in connection with pop culture. I for one wish that the Norse gods were given more attention (it’s ALWAYS about Greek gods in Hollywood). I like to play video games, and one of my favourite series is “Valkyrie Profile” which does some…interesting…things with the lore. I accept that the majority of the population doesn’t believe that my gods exist, and I think their stories speak to people on multiple levels.
If such an experience were to occur, how do you suppose it would manifest? Would those locutions be open to interpretation or literal? Feel free to answer anyway you wish… including passing on any experiences you’ve heard from other people who have.
Also, if and when you do hear of such experiences, what is your initial reaction (critical skepticism or acceptance)?
How crucial a role does symbolism play in Asatru?
I suppose if I were to have an experience, the first thing I would do would be to check that my head is on the right way and I didn’t eat anything that strongly disagreed with my stomach! 😃 I think the feeling that one is going crazy is common to people who have had such experiences. They go through a period of saying: “Was that really real? Did I really experience something?” I often hear that someone has been “thwapped” by a deity, and I think that’s a good way of thinking about it. Sometimes, it almost seems as if the gods come into someone’s life, plunk their butts down on the couch and refuse to leave!

As for the nature of those experiences, I recall reading about one person who had a dream where a man came to her and said: “I am Apollo, you are Mine” as I recall, she was very confused by it at first, I’d be pretty confused too! As I recall, she started doing some research, and Hellenismos (Greek reconstructionism) just “clicked” with her.

Some experiences are a little more dramatic. I remember someone who used to post on an interfaith forum I frequented a long time ago. She was a former fundamentalist Christian (of the Jack Chick variety) and one day she was involved in a car accident. She recalled that instead of crying out “Father!” and asking God to help her, “Mother!” was what she said instead (even she didn’t know why she happened to blurt that out). Anyways, as she tells it, a woman appeared between the cars. I believe she described her as a redhead in full armor either wearing raven feathers or in the presence of ravens. She came to identify this figure as the Morrigan (a rather complicated Celtic goddess).

Actually, I was recently having a discussion with a Heathen woman who spoke about how she “doesn’t go looking for the gods”. She does rituals because she believes in the gods, but she doesn’t go looking for mystical experiences the way others do. Some are content with simply “doing the work” and others desire a more direct experience, most traditions have room for both, I think.
 
Cont’d
As for symbolism, I’m not Asatruar so I can’t speak for those who practice Asatru, I will say that opinions most definitely vary. I’ll explain it the way I explained it to some of my co-religionists. One of my goddesses, Freya, possesses an amber necklace called “Brisingamen” (Fire-Jewel). Is this necklace a literal necklace or a symbol of her sexual power? The correct answer, in my view, is that it could be one of those things, or both of those things, or perhaps someone says: “I think both are true, but it could also mean X.” I accept that both of those things could be true, but opinions as usual, vary.
40.png
latin_rite:
How do you know what you are doing is correct? As our knowledge of paganism in Europe has all but disappeared. And How do you trace your name back to pre christian times?
And if Jesus didn’t exist how did your gods allow a fake religion totaly to wipe them off the map, to the point where people only know their name, but know nothing of their religious practices. How do you know what you;re doing is pleasing to your gods as you don’t know what the require?
This is where reconstructionism comes into play. Please keep in mind that I am not a reconstructionist, but I don’t believe I will be able to adequately answer your question without referencing it because it has had a HUGE impact on how some people practice.
When speaking specifically of Heathenry (although other reconstructionists do this as well) it’s often referred to as “the religion with homework” that is, there is an expectation that you will read the surviving lore (particularly the eddas and the sagas) for yourself. Most Heathens don’t stop at reading the eddas and the sagas, though, they also look at folklore and folk customs, archaeological evidence, medical texts (particularly Anglo-Saxon materials), as well as secondary sources from scholars of Germanic Studies. Some even learn the original languages (Old Norse, Icelandic, etc.) that the source materials were written in so they can read them for themselves without needing to rely on translators, but this isn’t a requirement to practice.

However, all of these things give us pieces of the puzzle. The eddas themselves were not meant to be a “how to” guide to honour the gods, so modern practitioners supplement their understanding with UPG (Unverified/Unsubstantiated Personal Gnosis) to put it simply, UPG is information that is not found in the source material. For instance, a common UPG is that the goddess Freya likes strawberries as offerings. This isn’t found anywhere in the primary sources, and early Heathens wouldn’t have known about them, but it is something that has come to be accepted as appropriate, strawberries are sweet, vaguely heart-shaped, and thought to be an aphrodisiac, which would make them an appropriate offering for a goddess connected with fertility, love, and sex.

Based on those sources, then, I don’t think it’s fair to say that we know “nothing” more like we know “bits and pieces” and that sometimes we need to supplement those bits with things that we have intuitively felt. The issue of “lore vs. UPG”, btw, is a complicated one, and the general consensus is that “feelings” need to be informed by what’s in the actual sources, where applicable.

As for the gods letting someone “wipe them off the map” obviously Christianity didn’t do a very good job, or no one would be Pagan. 😃 There is a story of Thorgeir of Lightwater, who was a Lawspeaker (a bit like a Chief Justice) in Iceland who went “under the cloak” (a method by which one communicates with the gods by literally going under a cloak) in order to ask whether it was possible for Iceland to avoid civil war because Pagans and Christians were fighting. When he finally came out of his trance, he said that it would be best if Icelanders converted to Christianity, if only to avoid bloodshed. In any case, the gods are not omnipotent, nor are they the type to force the hands of their followers. I would say that Christianity succeeded not because “my God beat up your God” but because of a variety of factors: it was customary to convert when your leader converted to preserve social harmony, aspects of the new religion appealed to people, “convert or die” is the sort of ultimatum that will convince a lot of people that your new religion is the bees’ knees, etc. etc.

As for whether what we’re doing is “pleasing to the gods” here again we delve more into feelings. Some (who have close relationships with a particular deity/deities will say that they feel something that lets them know that their offerings have been accepted, or, conversely, that they feel something when they haven’t given their god/dess something that they like. There are many lists of what some have deemed to be “acceptable” offerings, but the individual is often encouraged to experiment and figure out what works for them, and of course, we have historical accounts of offerings and sacrifices, but I personally don’t know of anyone who can obtain wild boar meat, and no one in their right mind would consider human sacrifice, although there is evidence for that as well.
 
40.png
StrawberryJam:
Is your religion compatible with science?
There isn’t really a conflict in my mind between science and religion. I would have probably gone on to become a marine biologist if I wasn’t horrible at math.
I think many Pagans realize that their ancestors lived at a time when we didn’t have the knowledge that we do now. However, I also think that many religious people believe that science is an unchanging, monolithic entity with an “X is X and that’s final” sort of attitude, when that isn’t true. Science is constantly changing, new information leads to old theories being discarded and new hypotheses being proposed.
Now, some do tend to see the myths as more literal than others, and I have heard of people who claim that evolution is part of “Loki’s brood” (which makes it “evil” or, at the very least, destructive) but I don’t honestly have a problem with it. I think evolution makes a whole lot of sense, actually. Once again, opinions will definitely vary. Once again, it’s not really something I spend a lot of time worrying about.

I should also say that I am definitely opposed to having religious beliefs (any religious beliefs) taught as if they were science when they clearly aren’t scientific. In my high school, we had an (optional) course on biology, and then we had an (optional) course on world religions, religion was not discussed in biology class, but religious views on science was discussed in world religions, and that’s how I think it should be.

Also, I do see your questions, SteveVH, I will get to them eventually. I haven’t forgotten. 😃
 
ask me anything!
Hi Loka! I have a casual interest in [neo]paganism so thats cool that you’re here. Here are a few questions that come to mind:

Does your religion have any distinctive symbols? i.e. Wiccan pentacle, Jewish Star of David, Christian cross. I love the Wiccan pentacle personally! I’ve got coasters and jewelry and all sorts of witchy things even though I don’t believe in it lol! Just wondering if you had something similar.

Also something I have wondered about with religions such as yours: how do you know the names of your gods? Did humans just pick some names for the gods they perceived, or did the gods actually reveal themselves to humans way back when, like “Hello, I’m Freyja, the goddess of love.”
 
Can you please name just a few of “all the heretics” that were burned at the stake?

Well, the Cathars, for starters, but that’s just one group, but I’m thinking more broadly: What happened to all those heretics who refused to repent of their heresy? Obviously, they couldn’t be allowed to run around poisoning the minds of the populace. How do you think they were dealt with? The history books I’ve read seldom have heretics and orthodox Christians sitting down for tea and both agreeing to disagree. 🙂

My point is that so-called “heretics” also had a strong belief in their convictions, and were often willing to die (horribly) based on the strength of their convictions. Yours is not the only tradition to have those who suffered and died for what they believed in. Radbod of Frisia famously refused baptism with these words: “I would rather roast in Hel with my ancestors than feast in heaven with a pacel of beggars.” Obviously, he believed in his gods enough to risk the wrath of the Church.

My intent isn’t to bash Catholicism (why would I even be offering to enter dialogue if I was just going to do that?) but more to point out what I see as an inconsistency re: martyrdom.
Well, first of all I didn’t say that, though I certainly believe that they did not exist nor do they exist today. But I find it interesting that you believe that a historical figure of the stature of Jesus Christ (who is also written about outside of Sacred Scripture) did not exist, that he was at best a mish-mash of different characters rolled into one, apparently fictitious, character, while at the same time seem to have no trouble believing in pagan gods. May I ask what evidence you have upon which you base your beliefs in these pagan gods?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top