Ask a Pagan

  • Thread starter Thread starter Skadi
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
joe371 said:
What did they have to gain by supposedly inventing Christianity?
Click to expand...
It’s not that they “invented” Christianity, and I really don’t believe Jesus was here to invent a new religion. It just sort of happened after his death. More like they helped it evolve into something else. When Jesus obviously never returned, followers had to explain why, just like they do today when endtime prophecy turns out to be wrong. If you read Mark, and then John, there’s quite an evolution of the story. It’s really *not *the same story at all, actually. Jesus never returned in “their generation”, so the story subtly changed from “Repent, the kingdom of Heaven is at hand” to resurrection and Jesus actually being God. Things just evolved that way.
 
mlamg said:
You stay in your religion because you find it to be true for you.
Click to expand...
Yes, with this correction:

“You stay in your religion because you find it to be true -]for you/-].”
If you didn’t, you would not be what you are. Just because you find some things unpalatable doesn’t mean you find them false, just unpalatable.
Click to expand...
Right.

So I want to know what truths you have conformed yourself to, because the gods have revealed it. …rather than your finding a religion that happens to conform to all your own tastes.
In the same light, non-Christians find their religion to be true. I’m sure there are things in all religions that are not palatable, yet people stay because they have a gut feeling that it’s true. If they didn’t think it was true, they wouldn’t be in that particular religion.
Click to expand...
So what have you changed your beliefs on, because the gods have decreed it to be so?
“If I did, I would follow the trail of truth to wherever it leads.” And that’s exactly what others have done. They just didn’t find that the trail included Jesus.
Click to expand...
If this were true, then I think that you’d be able to tell me where you’ve changed your beliefs to conform to what the gods have decreed.
 
Porknpie said:
I think it was Bishop Fulton Sheen who said the bible is not about our search for God but rather God’s search for us.

Either way you look at the bible, it’s about our relationship with God and his relationship with us.
Click to expand...
Well, no, not really. It’s about a very specific and small group of people and their relationship with God. A very, very tiny population of the world at that time.
 
mlamg said:
Well, no, not really. It’s about a very specific and small group of people and their relationship with God. A very, very tiny population of the world at that time.
Click to expand...
Mlamg, have you read the bible…and it don’t mean just certain paasages. Have you actually read the entire bible, and if you have, did you read it with some type of commentary in your hand?
 
ffg said:
I’m curious if you find world history and events in time as known things?
Click to expand...
Of course they are known things, if they are indeed actual history or events that have been corroborated. But the statement that a human was God is an opinion, it is not a fact. There is not one non-Christian, first-hand account of Jesus being God in any written account of history. If you know of one that is not either written after his death, or as hear-say (repeating what someone told the writer), then please post it here.

Anything that is not corroborated is certainly not an historical fact.
 
mlamg said:
It’s not that they “invented” Christianity, and I really don’t believe Jesus was here to invent a new religion. It just sort of happened after his death. More like they helped it evolve into something else. When Jesus obviously never returned, followers had to explain why, just like they do today when endtime prophecy turns out to be wrong. If you read Mark, and then John, there’s quite an evolution of the story. It’s really *not *the same story at all, actually. Jesus never returned in “their generation”, so the story subtly changed from “Repent, the kingdom of Heaven is at hand” to resurrection and Jesus actually being God. Things just evolved that way.
Click to expand...
Why would you say: When Jesus obviously never returned. Do you know something the rest of us do not?
 
mlamg said:
Of course they are known things, if they are indeed actual history or events that have been corroborated. But the statement that a human was God is an opinion, it is not a fact. There is not one non-Christian, first-hand account of Jesus being God in any written account of history. If you know of one that is not either written after his death, or as hear-say (repeating what someone told the writer), then please post it here.

Anything that is not corroborated is certainly not an historical fact.
Click to expand...
Why does there need to be a non-Christian, first-hand account of Jesus being God?
 
Porknpie said:
Mlamg, have you read the bible…and it don’t mean just certain paasages. Have you actually read the entire bible, and if you have, did you read it with some type of commentary in your hand?
Click to expand...
Yes, I used the KJV Study Bible, as well as the NASB to compare it to. Which honestly doesn’t matter that much, since the stories are what they are. The issues are the discontinuity and the evolution of the stories.
 
mlamg said:
It’s not that they “invented” Christianity, and I really don’t believe Jesus was here to invent a new religion. It just sort of happened after his death. More like they helped it evolve into something else. When Jesus obviously never returned, followers had to explain why, just like they do today when endtime prophecy turns out to be wrong. If you read Mark, and then John, there’s quite an evolution of the story. It’s really *not *the same story at all, actually. Jesus never returned in “their generation”, so the story subtly changed from “Repent, the kingdom of Heaven is at hand” to resurrection and Jesus actually being God. Things just evolved that way.
Click to expand...
And 11 of the 12 followers died of martyrdom after his death…believing that Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God and that he rose from the dead. Have to explain why they allowed that to happen and why the same faith that they taught was the same no matter where they all went.

🤷
 
Porknpie said:
And 11 of the 12 followers died of martyrdom after his death…believing that Jesus was the Messiah, the Son of God and that he rose from the dead. Have to explain why they allowed that to happen and why the same faith that they taught was the same no matter where they all went.

🤷
Click to expand...
As I’ve noted earlier, the death of martyrs only proves the sincerity of the believer, not the truth of the belief. Do you also think Islamic martyrs are dying for the One True God?
 
Porknpie said:
…and why the same faith that they taught was the same no matter where they all went.

🤷
Click to expand...
But it wasn’t, was it?? The desert fathers and mothers have some amazing stories, have you ever read them? What about the early celtic church, have you studied those early writings? Or the Syrian church? Obviously the story was NOT the same, which is why there are hundreds of different sects of Christianity.
 
mlamg said:
Jesus never returned in “their generation”.
Click to expand...
Think about it: all they (Jewish leaders) would have to do is reveal the body of Jesus and Christianity would have been halted. Does history tell us that they found the body of Jesus, in your opinion?
 
mlamg said:
Yes, I used the KJV Study Bible, as well as the NASB to compare it to.
Click to expand...
Good Mlang. Then you understand that the bible was written for all of us, at all times in history after the death of Jesus, not just a small community in Jerusalem.

And your words below are in error
Originally Posted by mlamg
Well, no, not really. It’s (the bible) about a very specific and small group of people and their relationship with God. A very, very tiny population of the world at that time.
Click to expand...
 
joe371 said:
There are people in the world who actually claim to be witches? I did not know that…
Click to expand...
Yes, the most conservative estimates claim 100,000 to 200,00 Wiccans in the US alone, not to mention world wide. and Wiccans are only one particular type of witch, so the number in the US i probably upwards of 200,000.
 
mlamg said:
As I’ve noted earlier, the death of martyrs only proves the sincerity of the believer, not the truth of the belief.
Click to expand...
True. But who started the rumor that He had risen from the dead? And what did he get for starting that rumor except persecution and death? And when did this rumor get started?
 
Porknpie said:
Good Mlang. Then you understand that the bible was written for all of us, at all times in history after the death of Jesus, not just a small community in Jerusalem.

And your words below are in error
Click to expand...
Really? Where does it say that in the bible, other then Paul saying it? You know Paul, the guy who opposed the apostles, including Jesus’ brother James. And I won’t even get into how Paul changed nearly everything about Jesus’ message.

Error? Please prove it.
 
PRmerger said:
True. But who started the rumor that He had risen from the dead? And what did he get for starting that rumor except persecution and death? And when did this rumor get started?
Click to expand...
There’s such a thing as being mistaken, or being overcome by emotion, or being so distressed that your mind can’t function properly. People do make mistakes.
 
joe371 said:
Christianity cannot be authentic? Is it really necessary to step outside the bounds of Jesus’ church for confirmation and authenticity? :confused:
Click to expand...
YES

I’ll edit this to say: Yes, if the followers of Christianity demand the belief that this actually happened in history. If it was accepted as legend or myth, there wouldn’t be a problem. When we demand that it’s history, there must be solid evidence to* call it *history.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top