J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Yes, we can judge them by their fruits. These are the fruits by which we are to be judged:
- charity
- joy
- peace
- patience
- kindness
- goodness
- generosity
- gentleness
- faithfulness
- modesty
- self-control
- chastity
- Status
S
Skadi
Guest
They advocate being strong and living with honor. While forgiveness and mercy are great and admirable traits, they are not expressed as being holy and there are in fact instances where it is understandable to forgo forgiveness and mercy. If a man kills my family, forgiveness is not what he will be getting from me, because all his actions merit are hate and vengeance. This is natural, the natural world is filled with death and violence, and while we being as intelligent as we are can limit it, there will alwase be violence, because we are part of nature, not somehow above it.
S
Skadi
Guest
These are the qualities on which we are judged. It is these and the manner and honor of ones death that Odin judges for entry into Valhalla.
Courage
Truth
Honour
Fidelity
Discipline
Hospitality
Self Reliance
Industriousness
Perseverance
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Let me ask you this - if a man had a friend who was under a sentence of death and that man agreed to take his friends place and die in his stead, do you view that as an honorable death? Or if one steadfastly holds to their beliefs and refuses to deny them even when they know they will forfeit their life for it by horrible means, is that an honorable death?
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Skadi, could you answer this question I asked earlier.
Could you please explain the reasoning behind your belief in this ‘Is All’? Where did you get this idea? And what is the rational explanation for it?
Could you please explain the reasoning behind your belief in this ‘Is All’? Where did you get this idea? And what is the rational explanation for it?
P
Porknpie
Guest
Skadi,Right.
Beliefs > Thoughts > Knowledge
Skadi, please describe your beliefs here (correct me where I’m wrong):
Skadi, the beliefs above make me think that your God’s seem pretty Christian.
- God’s lie;
- God’s steer people to Christianity by pretending to be Mary, the Mother of God
- God’s have people pray to Mary the Mother of God
- God’s give people a vision of the Christian version of hell
- God’s make miracles through a Christian figure, Mary.
- God’s make accurate predictions through a Christian figure, Mary.
Is there anythings that they are doing that is Christian that I have not captured??
What are your thoughts here? Your God’s seem to be pretty liking of Christianity…
J
joe371
Guest
Regarding Fatima, you were asked to respond to the following. If you are correct about Fatima it seems that the following assumptions seem reasonable:
- The God’s lie
- The God’s steer people to Christianity by pretending to be Mary, the Mother of God
- The God’s have people pray to Mary the Mother of God
- The God’s give people a vision of the Christian version of hell
- The God’s make miracles through a Christian figure, Mary
- The God’s make accurate predictions through a Christian figure, Mary
J
josh987654321
Guest
How do you define strength and honor? because they are both very subjective and subjectivism justifies everything.
You say “Understandable to forgo forgiveness and mercy.”
Than you say “All his actions merit are hate and vengence.”
Do you not see the contradiction in the two? If all this mans actions merit hate and vengence, what will your actions merit when harbouring hatred and vengence? If people forgo forgiveness and mercy, they embrace hatred and vengence. Therefore you become just like that man and his evil spreads because you do not rise above the evil to the good, those who cannot rise above the evil of this world get consumed by it and remain far from the good. Pagansim seems to not want you to rise above the evil of this world in seeking the good, it seems to be pleased with you embracing the evil of this world, why do you think that is?
Hatred and vengence are far from good, they belong to evil as thats what those feelings spread.
So how could the side of good understand (accept) hatred and vengence? obviously those things do not belong to what is good. Obviously good has no place what-so-ever for hatred and vengence.
You are right to say that this is a natural world filled with death and violence. Because it is a world of good and evil. It is a world in which both influence, thats why I asked what is good? you need to identify good in order to recognise evil and strive for the good.
You say “We are a part of nature, not somehow above it.”
This world is influenced by good and evil. You need to make a choice. Will you live for the good or will you live for the evil? will you submit to the evil of this world because you don’t think you should somehow rise above it to the good?
Thank you for reading
Josh
S
Skadi
Guest
Sorry I know ive missed a few posts, this thread is pretty busy.
I was very heavily deist/agnostic for a long time, but senior year of HS our theology class first semester included a series of videos where a christian professor tried to scientifically prove a Monotheist/Theist point of view.
He looked at atheism, deism, pantheism, and theism, and I found his arguments against deism and pantheism pretty lacking. out of interest i started reading into pantheism more. Im a very nature oriented guy and to me the vast, incredibly complex connections and cycles of life in the universe, as well as the inability of science to explain certain events, lead me to believe all life composes one giant, pantheistic entity, the “Is All”. I wound up in Wicca eventually, where I had a duo-theistic point of view with the Goddess being the divine Feminine and the Horned God being the divine Masculine. Eventually the pantheism sort of molded into Soft-Polythiesm, especially once I started to dabble in astral travel. I wound up dedicating myself to a particular pantheon and sense this thread started actually had some things happen to affirm my faith.
S
Skadi
Guest
That has been claimed before, and German religion has certainly left some marks on Christianity and western culture in general, ranging from holiday traditions like Yule/Christmas trees and Easter eggs to the names of days in many languages.Skadi,
What are your thoughts here? Your God’s seem to be pretty liking of Christianity…
Theres a show on history channel right now called Vikings, and while the story-line is fictional, it is based on real characters and shows a very accurate depiction of Viking age life. One of the characters is a captive Christian monk and when he recites Ecclesiastes 3 the main character responds that “sometimes your god sounds alot like one of ours”.
S
Skadi
Guest
sorry I missed this one, trying to keep up.
-The gods can do whatever the hell they want. They are not perfect beings. Only the “Is All” is perfect because it encompasses all things, all love, hate, passion, anger, and compassion. It is totally neutral, perfect balance.
-Who is to say it was a god? there are many entities out there beyond the physical realm. I cannot say for what reason but it seams pretty safe to say something manifested itself at Fatima.
-Again, I dont know what entity was at Fatima, let alone what its goals were.
-There are many things in this universe capable of predicting the future. The Oracle of Delphi and the Vestal Virgins are just the most well known. I don’t find anything spectacular about an accurate prediction of the future, as it happens all throughout history. “Athens will be saved by a wall of wood”
I dont pretend to know everything about the universe, no one knows what all different kinds of spirits and energy’s are out there, what they may want, and how they go about getting it. However, Mary would be a symbol those children would understand and if this thing wanted its predictions believed it would have to speak in a very mary-like tone. If someone looking like mary just shows up and says, “Hey kids this will happen”, you think the kids, let alone the catholic church, will believe what is said?
S
SteveVH
Guest
If a little green man appeared to me I would believe a little green man appeared to me. If he told me the sun would spin in the sky tomorrow and the sun did spin in the sky I would believe him. He wouldn’t have to appear as the virgin Mary.
Why are you so dismissive of even the possibility that Mary really did appear and there really is only one, true God. Have you ever even asked “What if”?
S
Skadi
Guest
Here is a big difference in how we view vengeance.
Christianity sees all hateful or violent things as a product of mans fall, and thus unnatural. Pagans do not believe man is fallen and that violence and anger are natural.
If a man murders my family it would be perfectly acceptably to take vengeance. For every action there is equal and opposite reaction, and that is encouraging my anger. In a case such as this, where vengeance is clearly merited by the severity of the act, some Germanics would consider it cowardly to not seek some form of revenge. If a man slays your family, one should not take that sitting down, but rise up to avenge the memories of his fallen brethren. This is the way of the world. There are times when it is appropriate to kill.
This is where our views of “good” and “evil” differ.
S
Skadi
Guest
As ive stated before, It is possible, but what I have seen and learned in this life leads me to believe it isnt so.
Have I considered “What if?” , yes. But I dont think it is.
have you ever asked yourself “what if?”
I think that everyone should atleast learn about other religions, because if a person goes through life not knowing a thing about other beliefs he only believes because he was raised to. This is why the JW’s try to limit the knowledge that comes to thier followers and ban them from studying other faiths, in fear that they may convert and leave their leaders without any followers.
S
SteveVH
Guest
Oh, absolutely I have. I was a pagan without even knowing it while I was in College. But I was absolutely amazed to find out that people actually still believed in “deities” such as Odin, Thor and so on. It amazes me today. I was just following a life of serving my flesh, for the most part, without much regard for my eternal destiny. But to intentionally choose believing in these man-made gods; well, its hard for me to believe anyone still believes this stuff.
But yes, there was a point when I was lured by eastern religions. I never took them very seriously. It was the experience of God truly entering in and affecting my life that brought me back to the Catholic Church. And nothing that I have learned about this Church gives me a moment of doubt. Just the opposite. The more I learn, the stronger I believe.
J
josh987654321
Guest
Nope, Vengeance is just another word for Revenge.
It’s not about natural or unnatural, it’s about good or evil.
Hateful and violent things are always a product of evil, violence and anger are evil.
You mean revenge. And no. It wouldn’t. Only Satan and his demons would advocate such.
No. Your thinking of physics, as humans we can control our action or reaction, such actions or reactions are either good or evil, it’s always been our choice, our choice to live for the good or for the evil.
What do you mean?
May I ask, do you have any feelings of hatred, anger or resentment?
So when Jesus was crucified and forgave his transgressors, you see that as an act of cowardice? you think God should seek revenge for all of those who trespass against him? In which case we should all be dead.
No. You are miles from the truth or good in saying that.
If this is the way of the world, we should all be killing one another. Can you not see how your paganism breeds hatred? and hatred has no place for the good.
No. They don’t. Hatred, anger or resentment will always be the product of evil.
Please look at the fruits of your faith, are they the fruits you wish to eat of? Do you really want to eat of the fruits of hatred, anger or resentment? of violence?
Because I prefer the fruits of love, mercy, forgiveness and peace. The good. Thats what I strive for in Christ.
Thank you for reading
Josh
P
Portofino
Guest
To clarify, by “non-Christian verification of the event” I was referring to non-Christian eyewitness verification, not merely accounts of non-Christians who read the accounts – presumably centuries later – and found them to be convincing.
Even the gospels give no account of any Roman or Jew having witnessed the resurrected Christ; but maybe that was Christ’s intention.
From a non-faith perspective, though, it would have been nice to have had a resurrection that was as much on public display, as was the crucifixion.
M
mek42
Guest
You do know that anyone who doesn’t share your belief can easily think that your god is man made also, right?
P
PRmerger
Guest
You do realize, Portofino, that prior to the resurrection there were no Christians. You do know that, right? Everyone who was a follower of Jesus was a Jew, or Roman or Galilean.
Therefore, anyone who witnessed the resurrection fits your criterion.
J
joe371
Guest
Assuming that you are right and Fatima was not the work of God via Mary as the messenger, then the answer to the following questions is - Yes?
Yes the god’s or whatever it is, lie
Yes the god’s or whatever it is, steer people to Christianity by pretending to be Mary, the Mother of God
Yes the god’s have people pray to Mary the Mother of God
Yes the god’s give people a vision of the Christian version of hell
Yes the god’s make miracles through a Christian figure, Mary
Yes the god’s make accurate predictions through a Christian figure, Mary
- Status