Ask a Pagan

[ffg]

Welcome to the forums!

People do like these types of threads, thanks for contributing.

Hopefully you’ll be able to read a bit on here, I think you’ll find you there is a lot you do not know about Catholicism considering you went to Church 7-8 times a year. There is a lot that life time Catholics don’t know about Catholicism who go to Church weekly.

It’s a constant learning process.

Catholic School hasn’t had the meaning assumed for some time in many places, so that being a foundation of knowledge of the Church could be sand as opposed to rock.

What are some questions / concerns you have about the Church?

Enjoy the forums!

 

[LivingWaters7]

Greetings, LivingWaters. I see that you’ve addressed your question to the O/P, but if you are interested in a response from another, please let me know and I’ll offer you my own. I am sure that it will be unlike his – I have read all the above posts, and we are different in several beliefs.

Namaste.

Definitely, all Pagans are welcome to reply.

 

[ffg]

So after reading through the thread to this point, I’m curious -

Is it your goal to find Truth?

Obviously, this question comes with the assumption Truth exists.

If you don’t think there is a Truth to search for, what is your opinion on truth in general where it seems we could agree on something being true like in simple math.

Why wouldn’t it exist outside of natural human observance, action, and interaction?

 

[John_Savage]

So, you’re more like a Deist with cool jewelery.

Nothing, Im a soft polytheist, I believe that MOST (there are obvious exemptions that are man made like Mormonism and the Church of Satan) religions are just the ultimate-reality/God (who is everywhere and made up of all life) revealed in culturally relative ways.

This dosn’t mean religions cant be changed or corrupted by man, but i do believe most deities are faces of the ultimate reality and most religions reflect common theams (IE. Theft is wrong).

So there is nothing to make my beliefs “More right” than anyone else’s.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

How do you worship your gods?

Do you have shrines or altars to them?

Do you sacrifice to your gods?

Do you pray to your gods?

When you die do you think you will go to that big drinking place in the sky with all those old Vikings?

 

[Skadi]

With respect,

You see parallels between Jesus’ actions and divine stories in other religions.

Christianity is the only, as far as I know, religion with such a strong historical record of an actual man who is understood to have this divine nature, walking on the earth with us.

Do you see any conclusions from that?

Well Jesus is similar in many ways to Thor in that they are both defenders of humanity and the earth and battle a snake (Satan/The Midgard Serpent) but Jesus is a spiritual savior who promises to free his followers from a firey afterlife of punishment where as Thor is a warrior savior whos stories entail him doing battle with evil forces.

As for your second question, I would immediately point you to the Buddha, who is also a well documented historical figure (and considered to be a avatar of Vishnu by some), and will simply say that while I do believe in the existence of Jesus I do not believe he was divine.

 

[Skadi]

A couple of questions at this moment about your beliefs.

• How did we get here? That is, what is your story of creation?
• What is the purpose of our existence?
• What is your take on good and evil?
• How do you know what is right, moral, and just?
• What makes your deities worthy of your adulation?

1. Your not going to find many “fundamentalist” Pagans in the way the word puritans to Christianity. There is plenty of scientific evidence for the big bang and evolution. Personally I believe life was created by the “Is All” (The pantiestic entity of which all Gods are faces) and developed from there on its own.

Each Pagan faith has its own creation story, the Germanic one (which again i dont take literally) goes something like this, in very abbreviated form.

“In the begining the was Ganungagap, the void, from nothing formed Muspelhiem (world of fire) and Nifelhiem (world of ice), which evpanded untill they touched and caused an incredible explosion that created the universe (like the big bang).”

The remainder of the creation story entails the first giant giant forming from the ice, the first God whom grew from his sweat, and the three sons of that God killing the giant and making the world from his body. they then fashion humans from a log of driftwood.

1. This is never expressly stated or explored in pretty much any branch of paganism besides maybe Wicca. Wiccans might say it is to be one with nature and to learn what we can with each incarnation in this world. for a Germanic pagan like myself i guess you could say its to live an upright life and to die gloriously in battle as to gain entrance to Valhalla.
2. Again, its hard to speak for all groups as Paganism is so varied. Again the Wiccans probably have the most defined teaching in that evil is doing undue harm to people.

Germanic paganism is devoid of a set satan-like figure (besides maybe Surt the fire demon). Even Loki, God of mischief, who is imprisoned and will play a major role in the end of the world is at-least revered.

I would say Good is things in keeping with the 9 noble virtues, and evil would be something along the lines of universally malicious intent (which Surt possesses).

1. this is governed by the 9 noble virtues
   -courage
   -truth
   -honor
   -fidelity
   -discipline
   -hospitality
   -self-reliance
   -industriousness
   -perseverance

again different groups have different rules governing this, such as the Wiccans “and it harm none, do what thou wilt”.

One thing about Germanic paganism is it is really a warriors religion. the people who followed it, the Germanic tribes who fought Rome and the Vikings, were exceptionally violent. While I have no intent of hopping in my boat and crossing the Mississippi to go raid Wisconsin, I find violence and even killing to be appropriate more often than most.

For instance, If two people agree to a duel, they should be able to fight and possibly kill each other without legal consequence or being shunned. Similarly if someone attacks me or trespasses on my land or against my goods, I am full within my rights to kill him. Whats necessary to survive must be done, and if it collides with someone else doing what is necessary to survive, then that is life. Conflict, violence, and death are natural and inescapable parts of life.

1. The gods are mighty figures who should be respected. They are in no way perfect (far from it) but they do embody the 9 noble virtues. As a soft polytheist i see them as faces of the “Is All”.

 

[Skadi]

Hello, I’m hoping you can clarify a couple things:

• I know you stated you had a preference for Wicca in your class, and eventually moved on to ancient German paganism. But what drew you to the conclusion that there were multiple gods instead of one? After all, if you were initially interested in Islam, something must have drawn you to that conclusion.
• Additionally, you make mention that you chose German paganism over other forms because that is your heritage. But shouldn’t the choice of picking a religion be based upon what seems to be the absolute* truth*, instead of what you like best? I don’t mean to be disrespectful here, I hope that’s clear. It’s just that picking a faith is something more important than something one simply “likes.” I love my Italian heritage, and the history of Ancient Rome, but I certainly couldn’t imagine worshiping the early gods of the Roman Empire. And while Roman Catholicism has been a part of Italian culture for probably about the same amount of time (if not longer) as the traditional gods in Roman Italy, I wouldn’t consider converting to Catholicism on that point. If I find that the Roman Catholic Church is what she claims to be - the one, true, and fullest expression of the faith Jesus Christ handed to the apostles - then that’s why I would convert. If I instead find tomorrow that Coptic Orthodoxy was really it all along, I would convert to that. The same would be true for any religion.
• Also, if there are very little texts and knowledge of how to worship the ancient gods of the Germanic tribes, then how do you know you’re worshiping them properly? Shouldn’t your practices imitate those of your German ancestors?

Again, please understand I’m not attempting to be disrespectful or dismissive, I am simply trying to grasp your side.

1. I was a pretty big deist/agnostic in high school, but becoming Wiccan moved me to more of a soft-polythiestic worldview (although im still very deist). There are alot of things most religions have in common, and I feel my worldview does a pretty good job of explaining that. They are all faces of the “Is All”.
2. As a soft polytheist, I believe all religions (besides maybe blatantly man-made ones like Mormonism and the so called “Church of Satan”) are faces of the ultimate reality. So, regardless of what religion I would follow it would lead me (hopefully) to better myself and lead a good and honorable life. But seeing as my ancestry is German, and my ideals and morality already lined up pretty well with Germanic paganism, i decided to simply honor the gods of my ancestors.
3. We do the best with what we have. The best sources are old rune-stones and Roman accounts. Accounts taken or translated by Christians are generally taken with a grain of salt. We do the best we can to recreate, and the rest we try to keep in line with what he know for certain.

But honestly there is no religion in the western world that is practiced exactly as it has been for the last 1000 years. Catholic masses are now held in the vernacular, the Jews again rule their homeland, and Christianity and Islam have both undergone major scisms in the last millennium, so why should it be assumed that if Germanic pagainism had survived uninterrupted we would still be sacrificing our P.O.W.'s to Tyr/Tywaz like what happened on the Roman frontier 2000 years ago? Science and the post-modern age have done much to every-day religious practices.

hope this is helpful

 

[Skadi]

Hail, Skadi. Following your train of thought and accepting your definitions to work with, I suppose I can be classified as a “Reconstructionist Eclectic” Pagan. How do you define “Modernist?” (I admit to being unfamiliar with these terms.)

Many thanks and Blessed Be, I hear the term thrown around sometimes just to define people who are less concerned with accurate recreation and more concerned with making the religions work in modern society. Sacrificing a goat dosn’t go over to well these days, haha.

 

[Skadi]

Ah okay, that makes sense (I have Hindu relatives, so I’m familiar with the faces of the “all”/Brahman view).

So as a soft polytheist, do you believe that all deities of all cultures exist?

Well, I’m not necessarily talking about a big miraculous event, divine entities appearing to you, etc. I think that many Christians believe that they have had spiritual experiences with the Divine/God that confirm their beliefs. I know that in Mormonism, the “witness of the Holy Ghost”/“confirmation by the Spirit” is highly emphasized, as is “personal revelation”, feeling God’s presence in temples, etc. It is believed that God interacts with humans in various ways, some more common than others, but He does interact with us.

So, I’m wondering if there is anything similar in your Pagan path, if the gods are believed to interact with humans these days (and not just in the mythical stories that may be part of your religious literature).

Ok. So I guess that’s related to what I asked above, about the deities of other cultures existing as real entities.

If you already answered this, sorry: why did you, and others, leave Christianity for Paganism? I’m not asking this in an accusatory manner (I know that such questions frequently are). I guess I’m just wondering how, if someone used to believe that Christ suffered and died for us, and that it is through Him that we are saved, sin, etc, to believing in other deities and the practices and beliefs surrounding them. While Pagans may not necessarily believe in a “one true religion”, they still do believe that their gods are real, and that what they’re doing and believing isn’t just make believe. So, I’m just curious about the stories of those that make such a transition. For me, it seems easier to wrap my head around someone that goes from, for example, Catholicism to Mormonism, than Catholicism to Paganism.

More or less, or at-least represent things.

As for personal experience, yes I certainly have had feelings of the gods presence, but I try not to use that as some Christians dismiss a “feeling” as being anything. I personally believe what I felt was the presence of the gods (and on occasions in my life of some other, more malevolent things.)

Im a pretty deistic guy, but I would say they do on occasion (though usualy through subtle means). The last battle victory attributed to Odin was in the 13th century when he supposedly took the field and lead the Swedes to victory over the christian Danes. Weather this actually happened I don’t know, as I wasn’t there, but it is certainly possible the gods were somehow involved.

We are given the strength at birth for the trials of life, and I like to think thats all I need. While some take pride in praying I take pride in NOT praying, because I feel if i can go my whole life without coming to the gods for aid, then I am truly being self sufficient and making the most of my strength. I may get down on my knees some day, but for now I feel that honoring and respecting the gods, and giving proper sacrifice on the Blots is what the gods want, not people asking for aid with problems they can fix themselves.

 

[Skadi]

If you already answered this, sorry: why did you, and others, leave Christianity for Paganism? I’m not asking this in an accusatory manner (I know that such questions frequently are). I guess I’m just wondering how, if someone used to believe that Christ suffered and died for us, and that it is through Him that we are saved, sin, etc, to believing in other deities and the practices and beliefs surrounding them. While Pagans may not necessarily believe in a “one true religion”, they still do believe that their gods are real, and that what they’re doing and believing isn’t just make believe. So, I’m just curious about the stories of those that make such a transition. For me, it seems easier to wrap my head around someone that goes from, for example, Catholicism to Mormonism, than Catholicism to Paganism.

I basically fell out of Christianity into deism-agnosticism. Through my love of nature and travel/cultural exploration I came to Wicca. Then i sold out totally to the Germanic pantheon.

Basicly, (Catholic → Agnostic → Pantheist → Soft-Polytheist)

 

[CHRISTINE77]

More or less, or at-least represent things.

As for personal experience, yes I certainly have had feelings of the gods presence, but I try not to use that as some Christians dismiss a “feeling” as being anything. I personally believe what I felt was the presence of the gods (and on occasions in my life of some other, more malevolent things.)

Im a pretty deistic guy, but I would say they do on occasion (though usualy through subtle means). The last battle victory attributed to Odin was in the 13th century when he supposedly took the field and lead the Swedes to victory over the christian Danes. Weather this actually happened I don’t know, as I wasn’t there, but it is certainly possible the gods were somehow involved.

We are given the strength at birth for the trials of life, and I like to think thats all I need. While some take pride in praying I take pride in NOT praying, because I feel if i can go my whole life without coming to the gods for aid, then I am truly being self sufficient and making the most of my strength. I may get down on my knees some day, but for now I feel that honoring and respecting the gods, and giving proper sacrifice on the Blots is what the gods want, not people asking for aid with problems they can fix themselves.

What’s the Blots?

 

[Skadi]

So after reading through the thread to this point, I’m curious -

Is it your goal to find Truth?

Obviously, this question comes with the assumption Truth exists.

If you don’t think there is a Truth to search for, what is your opinion on truth in general where it seems we could agree on something being true like in simple math.

Why wouldn’t it exist outside of natural human observance, action, and interaction?

I believe the knowledge of total and absolute truth is well beyond human comprehension. So I think religion is similar to a children’s story in that it illustrates complex Ideas to those incapable of understanding them. And as such stories vary from culture to culture, so does religion.

 

[Skadi]

What’s the Blots?

Holidays, such as Yule on Dec 23rd. Although there are no local groups for me to celibate them with, groups usual y have some sort of ceremony depending on the holiday and then follow with a feast.

 

[joe371]

Personally? Nice guy, had some good ideas, probably blown out of proportion in the years following his death by early Christians. I don’t believe he is the son of god, although miracles are possible, most pagans would say that someone magically or psychically gifted enough, and with divine aid, could do those things.

Divine aid…Who would you classify as divine i.e. creator of time and space? And, what qualifies those deities, in terms of being more convincing than the Christian God?

 

[JMJ_coder]

One thing about Germanic paganism is it is really a warriors religion. the people who followed it, the Germanic tribes who fought Rome and the Vikings, were exceptionally violent. While I have no intent of hopping in my boat and crossing the Mississippi to go raid Wisconsin, I find violence and even killing to be appropriate more often than most.

What?! You mean you won’t ally with the Bears of Chicago in their persistent battle against the Viking forces of Green Bay?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I believe the knowledge of total and absolute truth is well beyond human comprehension. So I think religion is similar to a children’s story in that it illustrates complex Ideas to those incapable of understanding them. And as such stories vary from culture to culture, so does religion.

It sounds like you just like the mythology and imagery of the old Germanic gods. It doesn’t sound like you worship them, or believe in their afterlife, or pray for their help or give them thanks.

I like Norse mythology too, being part Norwegian, but I sure don’t worship Odin or Freya or any of the others!

 

[JMJ_coder]

1. The gods are mighty figures who should be respected. They are in no way perfect (far from it) but they do embody the 9 noble virtues. As a soft polytheist i see them as faces of the “Is All”.

Is there such a thing as perfection, or perfection in those 9 noble virtues in your belief system?

And, just how imperfect are your gods? Are they are bad as the Greek and Roman deities?

 

[PJM]

=Skadi;10766372]So, seeing as there are a couple other threads thrown up by people of various faiths for questions on their religion i figured id do it too.

“Ask a Pagan” is a very broad term though and Paganism is not itself a religion but a blanket term for many who form a sort of community. In addition, various Pagan faiths are very eclectic and there is no Bible or Catechism to outline beliefs, but I have a good general knowledge of paganism (and the occult sense I know the questions are coming) and I’ll do my best to answer any questions.

I was raised catholic and went k-12 in the catholic school system, learned catholic doctrine and apologetics, and understand Catholicisms teachings pretty well. So I look forward to any questions you may have or discussions that may come.

Stay classy Catholics

So dear friend,

Did you not learn anything or have you just abandoned what you learned?

As a pagan do you believe god, heaven and hell are real?

 

[Skadi]

How do you worship your gods?

Do you have shrines or altars to them?

Do you sacrifice to your gods?

Do you pray to your gods?

When you die do you think you will go to that big drinking place in the sky with all those old Vikings?

1. Im not near any group so I am pretty limited. I try to honor the gods by keeping them in my heart and living as an upright and honorable person, and by burning some flowers on incense on holidays.
2. Back in they day they were common, but now Altars only exist when a group owns property to put one on. I am thinking of trying to get a statute though and putting it on the river bluff, maybe carving something in Runic into the rocks.
3. Yes, usually just plants, but if it was more legal/socially acceptable sacrificing a goat or a sheep would probably be pretty common.

4.I try not to simply to show them that I am strong and self sufficient. I respect and honor them but I dont ask for their help and wont unless there is something I am incapable of doing myself.

1. Lol I don’t know what will happen after I die, but I like to think that’s were I will end up. I certainly hope my life leads me to a chance to die in battle and earn that honor.