Ask a Pagan

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Im on a catholic forum, what should is do? come on here and say “Your all wrong! this is how it is!”. Im here to answer questions. My beliefs are different from your beliefs which is why i phrased it the way I did.
I’m not criticizing you. I’m just saying if you choose to have this type of discussion it always leads into theology. Christianity is very different than others. Other faiths try to suggest that there is equality among them all, and while the CCC does express that the goodness in other religions are reflective of Gods goodness, it does not mean other faiths are true in the sense that they bring the followers to salvation.

With that, the discussions always turn a little adversarial because the participants have differing world views.

It would be disingenuous of me to say I think you’re moving along a good path. I think you have done what many in today’s culture have done and rejected Jesus for religion of your own making to your eternal detriment. You seem to be college age by your comments and I hope you are just doing the usual questioning of leaving “your parents faith” as it were and finding one of your own.

I hope you return to the Church and Christ and I will be praying for you.
 
But the child needs these shots in order to improve its future life, whereas those people are dead and not going to learn a thing. I don’t really see the analogy
Do you see how a child could think that his daddy is being unloving and horrific, when the daddy really is not?

If you can answer yes to that question (and I think you can!), then you may be able to see how the analogy applies.
 
In your belief system, is there anything that you have conformed your beliefs to because a deity has revealed this to be true, or do the deities you worship happen to have the same beliefs/morals that you do?
I know where your going with this, I chose Germanic paganism because its beliefs were very similar to mine. However if you are going to say that religion should be chosen based on truth not on what we wishes was true, i would reply that all religions lead to the “Is All” and as such there is no “right” religion to chose.
 
Do you see how a child could think that his daddy is being unloving and horrific, when the daddy really is not?

If you can answer yes to that question (and I think you can!), then you may be able to see how the analogy applies.
Yes i agree with you that a child dosn’t understand why it needs the shots, however the shots will prove beneficial to the child down the road. I do not see how the people of Jericho benefited from their death then or at any time after.

Something like the first 9 plagues of egypt could be likened to spanking a child, but Jericho is more like killing the prodigal son than like teaching him a lesson or preforming a unplesant but necessary task like getting shots.
 
None, and i’m not here to try and disprove it, but the god of the bible isn’t very consistent, claiming to be a god of love and peace yet at times commanding the destruction of entire peoples, like the sack of Jericho. I simply don’t believe that a Jewish prophet was the son of a single all powerful deity who despite his power had to sacrifice his son so we could all be saved from eternal damnation for our ancestors disobedience.

You re correct, honor is very subjective, but because this religion was part of Germanic culture (and its influence is still found in it today) it defines honor on those lines.

Courage in life and especially battle. A good Germanic warrior should not fear death, but not seek it out either. To die in battle, fitting hard to the last breath is the greatest honor and way to please the gods, but being stupid is not.

the story goes…
“A group of Vikings were captured by the Swedes, and were to be executed. The first was held by the hair and had his neck stretched out. The man smiled, said he would soon be in Valhalla, and has his head cut cleanly off by the swing of the executioners axe. The second man was held likewise, but as the executioners axe fell he pulled back the the axe took of the hands of the man holding him. The Swedish king laughed, applauded the mans determination and wit, and sent him on his way a free man.”

The second man was the one who would have pleased the gods, he did not give up and would have fought to the death. That is the kind of stuff that earns a place in Valhalla.
May I ask you just another few questions.
  1. What is your take on Good and Evil?
  2. Is the sacrafice of humans permitted in your religious beleifs? (secular from law).
  3. whats your take on spells?
Thank you for reading
Josh
 
. . . While some take pride in praying I take pride in NOT praying, because I feel if i can go my whole life without coming to the gods for aid, then I am truly being self sufficient and making the most of my strength. I may get down on my knees some day, but for now I feel that honoring and respecting the gods, and giving proper sacrifice on the Blots is what the gods want, not people asking for aid with problems they can fix themselves.
PART 1 OF 2

Ooooo, Skadi, we are SO very different in this, Brother.

I do not wish to go my whole life without touching the divine! Being with them every single moment of my life is a need for me, like oxygen!

In my youth, I wanted to be a priest. I participated in Mass twice a week with shining eyes and an expansive heart. I didn’t quite understand all the “stuff” that was going on, but I knew that it was wanted of me. The priests and nuns told me that would never be possible, that “God only wants men to do that job.” It made me feel worse when altar boys were joined by altar girls. That was as far as they could go. Ever. I felt sorry for them, wondering how their hearts were not breaking into a million pieces as they stood there watching the Father “work his magick” (no offense meant by this phrase, please - it’s just how I felt then, and I must verbalize it now)…

And so, I began my walk away from the RCC in first grade. Other things kept my interest enough, though, so that I stayed around and studied through a 4 year RC high school and 4 year RC college. (My degree is a B.S. from St. John’s University in Queens, NY, and I loved discussing theology and philosophy with the professors, some of whom were RC priests. My grades were good enough that I was allowed to be a paid tutor in those subjects and others.) In grammar school, I remember thoroughly enjoying the participation in the spring event in grammar school where all the girls dressed in beautiful pastel dresses and floral crowns with ribbons and white gloves would walk around the block of the church, carrying rosaries and missals and singing songs of honor to Our Lady, and ending at her statue in the church garden, where some lucky girl who had been chosen would climb the ladder and crown her Queen of the May. I never was that lucky girl, and my heart broke open from expansive love of the Lady, and sadness that I was “never good enough.” 😦

Every act, every thought, every breath I take in my adult life (I am a 57 year old grandmother) is a prayer… and for those not of my faith, please try to accept my definition that for me, prayer = magick, and magick = prayer. I do not try to make things happen because I want them to happen. That is not my right. I am not the end-all and be-all of the universe. I do not know what is planned for me and for others. I do not feel it is my place to reach in and try to change or influence anything in life except by prayer, and I am 100% certain that every prayer I send forth is answered. Sometimes I may feel as if I have not been given an answer, and every single time that happens, I realize I was given an answer, and the answer was “no” or “not this time” or “not yet” because something bigger and better was in store for me, and I needed to learn patience. I wonder if this outlook is more Christian than Pagan, but all of us are influenced by our roots, eh?

Skadi, like you, I know that I have been given all the tools I need to live. I do my best to maintain good health, strength of body, mind and spirit, and expanding intelligence. I have used these tools to go far in education, in careers, in having friends, in planning for the future, in making investments, and in doing the right thing for the sake of that which is right… performing the greater moral good at all times, without question. I may not “go to the Gods with problems I can fix myself” but I feel in the depth of my heart of hearts that I would not be able to live the positive life I live without them beside me every step of the way.

Heck, I suppose if I’d have been called to be a nun, I’d have joined a contemplative order to live in the constant presence of my holy and beautiful Parent/s*… although I like so much to do things for others in need, that maybe I’d have joined a charitable order instead. But alas, the sisterhood was not enough. Although appropriate for the sisters I knew/know, the life seemed so bland and second-class for me. I knew it would not be right to try and change the Magisterium and work towards ordination of females, because then the RCC would no longer be the RCC. But I digress. I was called to the Priesthood all my life, and that is why I worked toward, and was given the “title” of Priestess today, in my faith. (I am a Celtic Wiccan, and yes, Wicca itself is a relatively new invention, unlike pure Paganism, which hearkens back to the time of mankind where there were no answers for any questions.) I did not feel called to any other Christian faith or order. It was the RCC or not, and so… not. 😦 But I am beyond happy and content. 🙂 I am fulfilled, and I serve my God/dess best by serving those in need, whether human, or animal… or the planet Earth which is being abused so horribly it often it brings me to tears… all of which are expressions and gifts to humans by that which is God/dess.
 
PART 2 OF 2

Nota bene, I do not worship idols or creatures or any other created thing. I sadly laugh a bit when I see others say that Pagans worship rocks and trees, etc. No, I don’t. I am a Pagan, and I do not do so. That would be sacrilege to me (but not by any written rule), to worship a created thing instead of the power which made the creation. Rocks and trees are just reminders to me of the Blessed Power That Is, which has No Name that I could possibly know and understand in my tiny human brain. When I see the Moon, I am made to think of Our Lady, the Goddess, but the Moon is not Goddess. The moon is a chunk of rock, orbiting our planet, out in space. When I see the Sun, I am made to think of Our Lord, the God, but the Sun is not God. It’s a whirling star of compact gasses, gifting our planet with heat and light. And both the Moon and Sun were given to us to enjoy, by God/dess, and we are to be proper stewards of their gifts to us.

The “equality” of God/dess, and the mere existence of the Goddess in my faith takes me back to those May Day parades, ending in the crowning of Our Lady. She is here, now, right here! This very moment, in my faith, and I love her, and she knows, and she loves ME… just as God loves me… and they are as the concept of the RCC Trinity… they are one and the same, but different.

(* Parent/s = God and Goddess… the best and most full identity of all that is male and female, combined together into an entity so loving and blessed and brilliant that is has both genders and neither gender… for me, easier to understand the concept by breaking down into both God and a Goddess.)

Well, enough rambling for now. I intended this just to be a short note to Skadi from my intellect, but it was not to be. My heart spoke instead. 😊

I hope I have not disrespected anyone, and if I have, please forgive me as that was not my intent, and I apologize.

I need some coffee… :o
 
I read here all the time people who claim a knowledge of Scripture, theology and apologetics; usually because they’ve “been to X number of years of Catholic School”. Most prove by their comments they have a child like understanding appropriate to their schooling. If you are looking to grow deeper in the faith many of the answers in this thread will prove valuable.
LOL, nope, never went to catholic school, but thanks for telling me I’m uneducated. 🤷

Guess what? People can actually study, read, compare what scholars have written, look over huge amounts of texts (sometimes in foreign languages!!! WOW!!!), and after 25 or 30 years, they can make a decision for themselves. Isn’t that amazing??

So amusing that, in a Christian’s eyes, any person that doesn’t agree Christianity is the best thing since sliced bread is obviously uneducated, completely ignorant, poorly catechized, doesn’t understand theology, etc.

This is a main reason why many non-Christians think Christians are, to put it mildly, jerks.
 
the story goes…
“A group of Vikings were captured by the Swedes, and were to be executed. The first was held by the hair and had his neck stretched out. The man smiled, said he would soon be in Valhalla, and has his head cut cleanly off by the swing of the executioners axe. The second man was held likewise, but as the executioners axe fell he pulled back the the axe took off the hands of the man holding him. The Swedish king laughed, applauded the mans determination and wit, and sent him on his way a free man.”

The second man was the one who would have pleased the gods, he did not give up and would have fought to the death. That is the kind of stuff that earns a place in Valhalla.
That story, the way you looked at it disturbed me.

You say that the second man was pleasing to your Gods because he did not give up and he fought to the death (Only because of the sick king did he survive), that this earned him a place in Valhalla.

What about a terrorist fighting for their cause? when they have clearly lost, they walk into a building with an explosive vest or an assault rifle and start shooting people, could this story not apply to them? In their eyes what they did required alot of courage and according to their beleifs it was honorable.

I will strive for my place in the kingdom of heaven through love and mercy, the laws that are written on our hearts, where is the one who says “Father forgive them, they know not what they do?”

Any fool can fight to the death, hatred has no place in our hearts, only satan and his angels (demons) would advocate such hatred in the name of “honor” and “courage.”

Im not trying to offend you, I just think you are far from the truth and that messing with paganism is dangerous.

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
I believe the knowledge of total and absolute truth is well beyond human comprehension. So I think religion is similar to a children’s story in that it illustrates complex Ideas to those incapable of understanding them. And as such stories vary from culture to culture, so does religion.
Thanks for the reply.

So if there is an absolute truth -

Do you have a thought about who has the ability to know Truth?

Would he, she, it, they that know truth share it?

Take care,
 
  1. Yes, usually just plants, but if it was more legal/socially acceptable sacrificing a goat or a sheep would probably be pretty common.
I agree, as time has passed and cultures have come, changed and drifted away, the socially acceptable thing would not be to use live animals.

Interestingly enough, as you know, there isn’t an hour that goes by on this earth where a lamb isn’t being offered up in praise, worship, thanksgiving.

It’s really great the logistic nightmare was identified early and alternative plans were made and instructed.
 
I know where your going with this,
Well, I thought the thread was, “Ask a Pagan”, not “Ask a Pagan questions only which the Pagan doesn’t know where it’s leading.” 😃
I chose Germanic paganism because its beliefs were very similar to mine.
Exactly what I thought.

You ought to consider, then, the truths of what this Germanic paganism proclaims. Are they true, objectively, or are they only truths which you have designed to conform to your own conventions?

To seek a religion that is “very similar” to your own tastes is the epitome of creating a religion after the Almighty Self.

And how does that draw one closer to truth? It seems to be a mirror that reflects back to oneself, rather than reflects the truth.
However if you are going to say that religion should be chosen based on truth not on what we wishes was true, i would reply that all religions lead to the “Is All” and as such there is no “right” religion to chose.
Sure, all religions can lead you towards the Truth. But that does not necessarily mean that “there is no ‘right’ religion to chose.”

Unless you are willing to proclaim that this religion is the right choice for some folks?
 
To seek a religion that is “very similar” to your own tastes is the epitome of creating a religion after the Almighty Self.

And how does that draw one closer to truth? It seems to be a mirror that reflects back to oneself, rather than reflects the truth.
Hmmm. I’m assuming that you were born into your religion, and really didn’t have a choice as to what to choose. But if you did have a choice, why didn’t you choose Islam? Or Buddhism, or paganism, etc? If they are “not to your taste”, and Christianity is to your taste, are you not creating a religion after the Almighty Self?

And how does that draw one closer to truth? It seems to be a mirror that reflects back to oneself, rather than reflects the truth.
 
May I ask you just another few questions.
  1. What is your take on Good and Evil?
  2. Is the sacrafice of humans permitted in your religious beleifs? (secular from law).
  3. whats your take on spells?
Thank you for reading
Josh
  1. Good is something in keeping with the 9 noble virtues, while evil is something of purely malevolent intent, unnecessary or undue harm for the sake of doing harm. I would say most things though lay in the middle, as being neither.
  2. It happened in ancient times, most often to prisoners of war after a victory in thanks to Tyr/ Tywaz, or when a servant would volunteer to be buried with their master. It had generally died out though by the end of the Viking age and the Christianization.
I don’t think any modern pagan has much of a desire to commit human sacrifice, however. I certainly don’t.
  1. As a former Wiccan i’ve done some magic but I dont anymore. While Celtic paganism, Druidism, and Wicca have magic as a central part of their religion, Germanic and Slavic paganism dont. There is magic, but for the most part the average pagan dosn’t ever do much more than some folk magic in the form of maybe a blessing. Historically, magic was generally preformed by local Seers, sometimes called “the Angel of Death”, would preform magic, interpret the will of the gods, and foretell childrens destiny.
 
That story, the way you looked at it disturbed me.

You say that the second man was pleasing to your Gods because he did not give up and he fought to the death (Only because of the sick king did he survive), that this earned him a place in Valhalla.

What about a terrorist fighting for their cause? when they have clearly lost, they walk into a building with an explosive vest or an assault rifle and start shooting people, could this story not apply to them? In their eyes what they did required alot of courage and according to their beleifs it was honorable.

I will strive for my place in the kingdom of heaven through love and mercy, the laws that are written on our hearts, where is the one who says “Father forgive them, they know not what they do?”

Any fool can fight to the death, hatred has no place in our hearts, only satan and his angels (demons) would advocate such hatred in the name of “honor” and “courage.”

Im not trying to offend you, I just think you are far from the truth and that messing with paganism is dangerous.

Thank you for reading
Josh
While I do not admire the cause for which modern suicide bombers die, or that they target civilians, but courage in the face f certain death is a virtue of many religions.

And no, not just any fool can fight to the death, this is what makes it special. The truly great warriors hold their ground, even while others may break and run around them. How many times in history have whole units fought to the death? its not common and usually only happens when it is an elite unit or they are trapped in some way.

This really is one of the biggest gaps between my religion and yours. You believe violence is unnatural and of satan as it was not created by god. I believe violence is natural part of life, and that there is nothing unnatural about it. Violence is everywhere in nature. Its simply part of life.
 
Exactly what I thought.

You ought to consider, then, the truths of what this Germanic paganism proclaims. Are they true, objectively, or are they only truths which you have designed to conform to your own conventions?

To seek a religion that is “very similar” to your own tastes is the epitome of creating a religion after the Almighty Self.

And how does that draw one closer to truth? It seems to be a mirror that reflects back to oneself, rather than reflects the truth.
I certainly dont worship myself. I am a man, and I have all the great potential and limitations of mankind. I dont think i’m some sort of god or anything worth worshiping.
Sure, all religions can lead you towards the Truth. But that does not necessarily mean that “there is no ‘right’ religion to chose.”

Unless you are willing to proclaim that this religion is the right choice for some folks?
Oh god, these folks, actually I heard some of them just got arrested in Oklahoma. Like I said obviously man-made religions like Laverian Satanism and Mormonism probably dont fit into that, and Id include that hate-fest from Kansas that calls itself a church. Still though, even the WBC teaches a few things just about everyone agrees on, such as that stealing without good reason is wrong.
 
Hmmm. I’m assuming that you were born into your religion, and really didn’t have a choice as to what to choose.
I didn’t have a choice when I was baptized, but now I do. Each and every choice I make is ordered towards my religious faith.

So your point above is essentially baseless.
But if you did have a choice, why didn’t you choose Islam? Or Buddhism, or paganism, etc?
Because I have not found them to be true. If I did, I would follow the trail of truth to wherever it leads.
If they are “not to your taste”, and Christianity is to your taste, are you not creating a religion after the Almighty Self?
You will find, mlamg, that I have proclaimed here a multitude of times that I have conformed my views to God’s, despite how unpalatable I may find it.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=10762706&postcount=414

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=8719398&postcount=136

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9790014&postcount=354
 
I certainly dont worship myself. I am a man, and I have all the great potential and limitations of mankind. I dont think i’m some sort of god or anything worth worshiping.
If you seek a religion that conforms to all your own beliefs, then that is, indeed, what you are doing, Skadi. :sad_yes:

Truth cannot be everything that happens to conform to your own tastes.

(Logic dictates that truism, not any religion.)
 
Oh god, these folks, actually I heard some of them just got arrested in Oklahoma. Like I said obviously man-made religions like Laverian Satanism and Mormonism probably dont fit into that, and Id include that hate-fest from Kansas that calls itself a church.
Who gets to decide whether a religion is man-made or not?
Still though, even the WBC teaches a few things just about everyone agrees on, such as that stealing without good reason is wrong.
So are you arguing that being part of the WBC is just as godly as being a Wiccan or a Germanic pagan?

Or is it your position that there some religions that are closer to truth than others?
 
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