Ask a pagan

[Skadi]

I grew up in Northern Idaho, where a minority claimed to be a part of the Aryan Nations Church. They believed in persecuting Jews as part of God’s will. Consequently, while I agree I have no authority to judge the eternal disposition of any person’s soul, I do believe we have a right and responsibility to judge between doctrines which are true and good, and doctrines which are false and evil. I believe instead we are to “Test everything; hold fast what is good” (1 Thess 5:21). Otherwise, you may end up in a suicide cult like those who believed that if they killed themselves, they would join Jesus on his spaceship located in the tail of a comet. [see Heaven’s Gate beliefs, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven’s_Gate_(religious_group)”]here

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The Aryan Brotherhood is a sad stain left by the abuse of Pagan symbols by the Nazis. There isnt any historical or written evidence to associate racism with Norse-Germanic paganism, but they insist on it. They have the right to believe what they want, but I have the right to dislike them for shaming the name of Germanic religion as a whole.

 

[Lasting_faith]

OK, I have a question. When a pagan die, where those he/she end up. Hell, Heaven or Purgatory for a while? Or do one just cease to exist? And what do happen to your soul? You are, like it or not, a creation of God so you have a soul. Only cold darkness or something from a Wagner opera, Beowullfs ond so on? I mean, we all do die but our soul is immortal. That is one thing we can not change.

 

[Skadi]

OK, I have a question. When a pagan die, where those he/she end up. Hell, Heaven or Purgatory for a while? Or do one just cease to exist? And what do happen to your soul? You are, like it or not, a creation of God so you have a soul. Only cold darkness or something from a Wagner opera, Beowullfs ond so on? I mean, we all do die but our soul is immortal. That is one thing we can not change.

That would depend apon ones specific pagan religion. Reincarnation is a popular afterlife belief, sometimes involving a stay in a place called the Summerland. Some reconstructionists believe in their religions traditional afterlife, such as Hades or the Egytian afterlife. Personally I’m a believer in the Norse heaven, Valhalla, and Hel (not Hell) as the place for those that don’t make it to valhalla.

 

[Quaesitor]

Those who are spouting things like “god hates gays” are worshiping the wrong god. It really is as simple as that. The Catholic Church does not teach that, Jesus does not teach that. The CCC (Catholic Church Catechism) has this to say on the matter…

I wouldn’t say they are worshiping the wrong god, just that they are giving their opinion nothing more. And opinions are a dime a dozen and mean absolutely nothing. People who claim God hates other people are in fact probably haters themselves and hypocrites.

Let’s bring things down a bit. I have an eighteen year old son, who I love unconditionally. That love will always be there, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with everything he does. When he was a kid and took something that wasn’t his I would tell him that action was wrong. I told him I was disappointed with his action but I still loved him. But he needed to make amends and fix the problem before everything was put right.

I do have a nephew who is actually gay, now if I hated him, truly hated him, I would probably want bad things to happen to him or wish evil things on him, but no, I want him him to see the error in his ways and to change. Wanting a change for good is in itself good and therefore is love.

I can say what is good because I believe that homosexuality is forbidden from the bible and therefore is a sin. Sin breaks our relationship with God therefore threatens our ability to be saved by his graces. So I would want my nephew to reconcile himself with God to regain his relationship and the graces that this relationship provides.

 

[Lasting_faith]

I wouldn’t say they are worshiping the wrong god, just that they are giving their opinion nothing more. And opinions are a dime a dozen and mean absolutely nothing. People who claim God hates other people are in fact probably haters themselves and hypocrites.

Let’s bring things down a bit. I have an eighteen year old son, who I love unconditionally. That love will always be there, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with everything he does. When he was a kid and took something that wasn’t his I would tell him that action was wrong. I told him I was disappointed with his action but I still loved him. But he needed to make amends and fix the problem before everything was put right.

I do have a nephew who is actually gay, now if I hated him, truly hated him, I would probably want bad things to happen to him or wish evil things on him, but no, I want him him to see the error in his ways and to change. Wanting a change for good is in itself good and therefore is love.

I can say what is good because I believe that homosexuality is forbidden from the bible and therefore is a sin. Sin breaks our relationship with God therefore threatens our ability to be saved by his graces. So I would want my nephew to reconcile himself with God to regain his relationship and the graces that this relationship provides.

Dislike, never hate, what they do but never ever dislike them.

 

[Zachary]

Sorry Zachary, but I think that was a bit harsh. Here we have one honest pagan who want to know things we know and have faith in. Who knows, we may learn something new as well, if not about faith but maybe about our self. To answer a pagan is not a sin. My daughter and my son is both atheists, but I still love them as much as before so I know something about this and how easy it is to lose faith.

I dont think that’s fair. I’m trying to find the question behind the question. Someone doesnt come here only with the hopes to share the good news about paganism. There’s a motive behind the offer to answer our questions and I want to know what that is. That’s my question.

What is it you’re looking for? What do you hope to learn from a Catholic site?

Maybe you havent thought about it and need to ask yourself the same. I have little interest in learning about paganism, but happy to help guide you toward Catholicism.

 

[Kallisto]

I dont think that’s fair. I’m trying to find the question behind the question. Someone doesnt come here only with the hopes to share the good news about paganism. There’s a motive behind the offer to answer our questions and I want to know what that is. That’s my question.

What is it you’re looking for? What do you hope to learn from a Catholic site?

Maybe you havent thought about it and need to ask yourself the same. I have little interest in learning about paganism, but happy to help guide you toward Catholicism.

Speaking for myself, there is no ulterior motive. The other visiting pagans no doubt are quite capable of answering for themselves and their respective religions, though you’ll likely hear the same.

Your mistake is assuming pagans are like you and are inclined to proselytize, they’re not. Among pagan religions is no dictate to either malign or convert others or pretend one religion is superior to another. That’s why pagan religions, as diverse at they are, tend to co-exist just fine not only with each other but with other religions as well. Which differs from what often happens among Christian denominations when adherents take turns at denouncing each other because each considers their religion “right” and others as “wrong”.

It’s simply a matter of dialog among differing faiths. No one’s forcing anyone else to participate. There is a great deal of misinformation, ignorance and cases of flat out bigotry that can only be dispelled by individuals who actually understand and practice these religions (Christian and Pagan). IF someone genuinely has a question and sincerely wants to understand, a thread like this one presents an opportunity to get an answer. No individual is expected to accept anything anyone says, but (unless I misunderstand TOS) simply exhibit the same courtesy, respect and civility for others that you expect for yourself.

If you have no interest in learning about Paganism, that’s certainly your choice. And signals this doesn’t appear to be the thread for you. Simple enough, plenty of other topics exist. Sorted.

 

[Zachary]

… I’m here because I have a lot of questions about Christianity. I’m young and enjoy learning about different religions, points of view on different issues but I figure before I start going around asking my questions I want to give people the opportunity to ask me questions…

I’ve asked my question. Maybe the answer was there all along. The OP wants to learn more about Christinanity. So, my next question is what would you like to know?

 

[Skadi]

If you have no interest in learning about Paganism, that’s certainly your choice. And signals this doesn’t appear to be the thread for you. Simple enough, plenty of other topics exist. Sorted.

very well said

 

[SteveVH]

They are just so delicious!!!

Yes, if God did not want us to eat animals he wouldn’t have made them out of meat.

 

[Skadi]

Yes, if God did not want us to eat animals he wouldn’t have made them out of meat.

I remember seeing a picture with a billboard that had a piglet and a puppy and asked “Why eat one and love the other?”

BECAUSE ONE HAS BACON!

 

[Zachary]

very well said

To be fair its called ask a pagan. no specifics

Red sox or Yanks?

 

[Skadi]

Red sox or Yanks?

Ill talk Baseball when my team can manage to win 2 games in a row.

 

[peace2u2]

Question for you: How do Christians feel about other religions or people that believe in one ultimate power? Do you think it could be the same god just with different ways of worship?

Part I to your above question:
God established worship according to how He wanted to be worshipped not the other way around. Although man certainly does search for Him in the way that man wants. The key here is obedience. Am I capable of obedience to the One, True God? God does not force us to know Him or love Him, but He invites us too and He gives us the choice to do so.

I love to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church on this topic: This part is about Who God Is by revealing His Name to man:

206 In revealing his mysterious name, YHWH (“I AM HE WHO IS,” “I AM WHO AM” or “I AM WHO I AM”), God says who he is and by what name he is to be called. This divine name is mysterious just as God is mystery. It is at once a name revealed and something like the refusal of a name, and hence it better expresses God as what he is—infinitely above everything that we can understand or say: he is the “hidden God,” his name is ineffable, and he is the God who makes himself close to men.11 (43)

205 God calls Moses from the midst of a bush that burns without being consumed: “I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.”9 God is the God of the fathers, the One who had called and guided the patriarchs in their wanderings. He is the faithful and compassionate God who remembers them and his promises; he comes to free their descendants from slavery. He is the God who, from beyond space and time, can do this and wills to do it, the God who will put his almighty power to work for this plan. (2575, 268)

**208 ** Faced with God’s fascinating and mysterious presence, man discovers his own insignificance. Before the burning bush, Moses takes off his sandals and veils his face in the presence of God’s holiness.13 Before the glory of the thrice-holy God, Isaiah cries out: “Woe is me! I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips.”14 Before the divine signs wrought by Jesus, Peter exclaims: “Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord.”15 But because God is holy, he can forgive the man who realizes that he is a sinner before him: “I will not execute my fierce anger… for I am God and not man, the Holy One in your midst.”16 The apostle John says likewise: “We shall… reassure our hearts before him whenever our hearts condemn us; for God is greater than our hearts, and he knows everything.”17 (724, 448, 388)

203 God revealed himself to his people Israel by making his name known to them. A name expresses a person’s essence and identity and the meaning of this person’s life. God has a name; he is not an anonymous force. To disclose one’s name is to make oneself known to others; in a way it is to hand oneself over by becoming accessible, capable of being known more intimately and addressed personally. (2143)

207 By revealing his name God at the same time reveals his faithfulness which is from everlasting to everlasting, valid for the past (“I am the God of your fathers”), as for the future (“I will be with you”).12 God, who reveals his name as “I AM,” reveals himself as the God who is always there, present to his people in order to save them.

**210 ** After Israel’s sin, when the people had turned away from God to worship the golden calf, God hears Moses’ prayer of intercession and agrees to walk in the midst of an unfaithful people, thus demonstrating his love.18 When Moses asks to see his glory, God responds “I will make all my goodness pass before you, and will proclaim before you my name ‘the LORD’ [YHWH].”19 Then the Lord passes before Moses and proclaims, “YHWH, YHWH, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness”; Moses then confesses that the LORD is a forgiving God.20 (2116, 2577)

211 The divine name, “I Am” or “He Is,” expresses God’s faithfulness: despite the faithlessness of men’s sin and the punishment it deserves, he keeps “steadfast love for thousands.”21 By going so far as to give up his own Son for us, God reveals that he is “rich in mercy.”22 By giving his life to free us from sin, Jesus reveals that he himself bears the divine name: “When you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will realize that ‘I Am.’”23 (604)

**212 ** Over the centuries, Israel’s faith was able to manifest and deepen realization of the riches contained in the revelation of the divine name. God is unique; there are no other gods besides him.24 He transcends the world and history. He made heaven and earth: “They will perish, but you endure; they will all wear out like a garment… but you are the same, and your years have no end.”25 In God “there is no variation or shadow due to change.”26 God is “He who Is,” from everlasting to everlasting, and as such remains ever faithful to himself and to his promises. (42, 469, 2086)

**213 ** The revelation of the ineffable name “I Am who Am” contains then the truth that God alone IS. The Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, and following it the Church’s Tradition, understood the divine name in this sense: God is the fullness of Being and of every perfection, without origin and without end. All creatures receive all that they are and have from him; but he alone is his very being, and he is of himself everything that he is. (41)

204 God revealed himself progressively and under different names to his people, but the revelation that proved to be the fundamental one for both the Old and the New Covenants was the revelation of the divine name to Moses in the theophany of the burning bush, on the threshold of the Exodus and of the covenant on Sinai. (63)

 

[peace2u2]

Part II
Regarding other religions that worship the One, True God:

839 “Those who have not yet received the Gospel are related to the People of God in various ways.”325 (856, 63, 147)

The relationship of the Church with the Jewish People. When she delves into her own mystery, the Church, the People of God in the New Covenant, discovers her link with the Jewish People,326 “the first to hear the Word of God.”327 The Jewish faith, unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant. To the Jews “belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ”;328 “for the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.”329

**841 ** The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”330

 

[peace2u2]

Part III
Regarding Non-Christian religions:

**842 ** The Church’s bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race: (360)

All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city… 331

843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as “a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life.”332 (28, 856)

844 In their religious behavior, however, men also display the limits and errors that disfigure the image of God in them: (29)

Very often, deceived by the Evil One, men have become vain in their reasonings, and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and served the creature rather than the Creator. Or else, living and dying in this world without God, they are exposed to ultimate despair.333

845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.334 (30, 953, 1219)

 

[peace2u2]

Part IV:
Regarding Paganism:

**2112 **The first commandment condemns polytheism. It requires man neither to believe in, nor to venerate, other divinities than the one true God. Scripture constantly recalls this rejection of “idols, [of] silver and gold, the work of men’s hands. They have mouths, but do not speak; eyes, but do not see.” These empty idols make their worshippers empty: “Those who make them are like them; so are all who trust in them.”42 God, however, is the “living God”43 who gives life and intervenes in history. (210)

2113 Idolatry not only refers to false pagan worship. It remains a constant temptation to faith. Idolatry consists in divinizing what is not God. Man commits idolatry whenever he honors and reveres a creature in place of God, whether this be gods or demons (for example, satanism), power, pleasure, race, ancestors, the state, money, etc. Jesus says, “You cannot serve God and mammon.”44 Many martyrs died for not adoring “the Beast”45 refusing even to simulate such worship. Idolatry rejects the unique Lordship of God; it is therefore incompatible with communion with God.46 (398, 2534, 2289, 2473)

 

[peace2u2]

I guess in your quest for truth ask God, the One True God to reveal Himself to you and ask Him to open your heart and your mind to all truth found only in Him.

Peace.

 

[MJJean]

Interesting thread. I’m new to the forums, so I haven’t seen another thread of this type. Trying to answer some of the questions I have seen in the 3 pages of posts

I was raised Lutheran, became Pagan in my teens and 20’s and stopped believing in anything in my early 30’s.

When I was Pagan, I worshiped primarily alone. Not a big community where I live. I had a few Pagan friends, but ritual was personal to me. There are various forums where one can chat about beliefs and practices and there are a few large gatherings of Pagans every year that any can attend. I never had the funds to go, but I heard those gatherings were a lot of fun.

I believed in reincarnation and then in simply dying and no longer existing anywhere. My understanding of Summerland was a place the soul could rest and refresh before being sent back to Earth. No heaven, no hell. If you were a “bad” person you would have challenges in your next life. Eventually, once the soul has lived and learned, it would reach perfection and would no longer be required to reincarnate, but stay in Summerland.

. “Do what you will, but harm none” is the basic core Pagan belief and something I could get behind. The idea that building and directing energy (focusing will) to bring about change was also something I liked. It’s actually very similar to Christian prayer only most Pagans need equipment (stones, candles, incense, offering bowl, etc) and ritual to help their minds focus their will. There were various rituals to find a job or a mate or conceive a child or find a lost object…you get the idea.

Returned to Christianity this year and an in the process of becoming Catholic. My husband and I realized we were both feeling unfulfilled and lacking spiritually and felt called to worship God again. The rituals of the Church and it’s sense of history, continuity, community and mystery are what attracted me to Catholicism.

 

[Boulder257]

Interesting thread. I’m new to the forums, so I haven’t seen another thread of this type. Trying to answer some of the questions I have seen in the 3 pages of posts

I was raised Lutheran, became Pagan in my teens and 20’s and stopped believing in anything in my early 30’s.

When I was Pagan, I worshiped primarily alone. Not a big community where I live. I had a few Pagan friends, but ritual was personal to me. There are various forums where one can chat about beliefs and practices and there are a few large gatherings of Pagans every year that any can attend. I never had the funds to go, but I heard those gatherings were a lot of fun.

I believed in reincarnation and then in simply dying and no longer existing anywhere. My understanding of Summerland was a place the soul could rest and refresh before being sent back to Earth. No heaven, no hell. If you were a “bad” person you would have challenges in your next life. Eventually, once the soul has lived and learned, it would reach perfection and would no longer be required to reincarnate, but stay in Summerland.

. “Do what you will, but harm none” is the basic core Pagan belief and something I could get behind. The idea that building and directing energy (focusing will) to bring about change was also something I liked. It’s actually very similar to Christian prayer only most Pagans need equipment (stones, candles, incense, offering bowl, etc) and ritual to help their minds focus their will. There were various rituals to find a job or a mate or conceive a child or find a lost object…you get the idea.

Returned to Christianity this year and an in the process of becoming Catholic. My husband and I realized we were both feeling unfulfilled and lacking spiritually and felt called to worship God again. The rituals of the Church and it’s sense of history, continuity, community and mystery are what attracted me to Catholicism.

Interesting story. Welcome home to Catholocism!