Ask a Pentecostal

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Hi Itwin!! I think this is a great idea, thanks for starting this! I have questions:
  1. This is going to be a lot of work, are you responding to all these questions by yourself?
  2. I see you had over a 1,000 posts before you began this neat thread. What events lead you to be part of a Catholic forum?
  3. Did you join thinking you may find holes in Catholicism, thus disproving Catholicism?
  4. Do Pentecostals believe that Catholics are Christian?
Thanks in advance for your answers and taking the time…👍
 
Hi Itwin!! I think this is a great idea, thanks for starting this! I have questions:
  1. This is going to be a lot of work, are you responding to all these questions by yourself?
  2. I see you had over a 1,000 posts before you began this neat thread. What events lead you to be part of a Catholic forum?
  3. Did you join thinking you may find holes in Catholicism, thus disproving Catholicism?
  4. Do Pentecostals believe that Catholics are Christian?
Thanks in advance for your answers and taking the time…👍
If you don’t mind since I have 1000 post and posted twice to the thread. However I don’t debate theology and when challenged by the masses I can just walk away.
2. I was getting married in what the Catholic _hurch calls a mixed marriage.
4. Evangelic’s and Pentecostals in particular would think that some Catholics are Christians. Being a member of a church by itself would not do it.
 
If you don’t mind since I have 1000 post and posted twice to the thread. However I don’t debate theology and when challenged by the masses I can just walk away.
2. I was getting married in what the Catholic _hurch calls a mixed marriage.
4. Evangelic’s and Pentecostals in particular would think that some Catholics are Christians. Being a member of a church by itself would not do it.
No, 4Squarebaby, I don’t mind at all you answering also! That’s cool with me. 👍

On your response of #4:

I agree with you, being a member of a church by itsef would not make you a Christian. Just because someone is a member of an Assembly of God or (insert other church) doesn’t necessarily make him/her a Christian. You must act & behave like a Christian to be a true Christian. Walk the walk, not just talk the talk, right? lol. Let me re-phrase, do Pentecostals consider a moral, Holy-Trinity believing, Jesus is the Son of God Catholic a Christian or non-Christian? The reason I’m asking is because I’ve been told that some Pentecostals don’t think that Catholics are Christians. I hope I’m expressing myself correctly. Thanks!
 
I hope you don’t mind me responding. Personally, I consider anyone who loves God with all their heart and soul to be a Christian regardless if they go to an Assemblies of God or Catholic church. I also believe all churches are full of people who are going thru the motions.
A good indicator is how someone behaves out in the real world when a priest, pastor or church congregation isn’t watching.
 
I hope you don’t mind me responding. Personally, I consider anyone who loves God with all their heart and soul to be a Christian regardless if they go to an Assemblies of God or Catholic church. I also believe all churches are full of people who are going thru the motions.
A good indicator is how someone behaves out in the real world when a priest, pastor or church congregation isn’t watching.
Nope, don’t mind at all. Very well said, thanks! You show a lot of love. Your siggy doesn’t say if you are a Pentecostal. Now, I’m anxiously waiting for the OP’s answer. I love getting educated. 👍
 
I grew up in the Assemblies of God church but started going to a Baptist Church when I moved to Colorado. I consider myself Pentecostal but usually just say Christian.
When choosing a church I tend to go by the people in the church and not the name on the door. When people love God, a church should be a place of spiratural renewal. Unfortunately, too many churches (regardless of denomination) are spiraturally dead and don’t even know it. I went to church for years and learned what was expected and how to behave. It’s only been recently that I realized that I knew who God was but I didn’t “know” him.
I got on this site to learn more about the Catholic Church but also to fellowship with other Christians. I hate when the conversation takes an us vs them attitude. I’m proud to call you my Christian brothers and sisters and pray that y’all feel the same way.😃
 
Hi Itwin!! I think this is a great idea, thanks for starting this! I have questions:
  1. This is going to be a lot of work, are you responding to all these questions by yourself?
4Squarebaby answered some questions. There have also been a few participants in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal that have regularly offered their unique perspective on some issues.
  1. I see you had over a 1,000 posts before you began this neat thread. What events lead you to be part of a Catholic forum?
I just wanted to understand Catholicism. I wanted to hear everyday Catholics talk about their faith and just get a feel for it. Then I started reading questions about Pentecostalism occasionally, and I thought I could contribute to those discussions.
  1. Did you join thinking you may find holes in Catholicism, thus disproving Catholicism?
No. I think it bad taste to come to a Catholic forum with the aim of disproving Catholicism. That being said, I’ve noticed that talking about points of disagreements and agreements with Catholics is an exercise for me to really discover and understand why Pentecostals and evangelicals believe what they believe and why they believe it. If you only talk to other Pentecostals or evangelicals, these questions often never come up because you will be starting from the same assumptions and speaking the same language. When you start from different assumptions and you use a different language, it gives you a reason to understand your own beliefs better.
  1. Do Pentecostals believe that Catholics are Christian?
Pentecostals believe that the Church is made up of all born again believers. We would say that there are born again Christians in the Catholic Church, but we would not say that all Catholics are born again. This is the same thing we would say about the Pentecostal or the Baptist church. Some Pentecostals are born again, but certainly there are people who claim to be Pentecostal that are not born again. Jesus said that the wheat and the weeds would grow together (Matthew 13:24-30).

And you do have an older generation of Pentecostals that are highly suspicious of the Catholic Church and may even engage in such name calling as the “Whore of Babylon.” However, most Pentecostals today are not antagonistic toward Catholics, but they probably don’t understand them very much.
 
OK, so maybe we don’t believe the same things. :o Let me explain the Pentecostal position more fully and then I’d like to hear the Catholic position in fuller detail.
Please accept my sincere apology for procrastinating.
We believe that sin is both a condition and an act.
Here is where there is a major difference between the Pentecostal position and Catholicism. We believe that there are two separate sins, personal and original.
We believe that scripture shows that the descendants of Adam are born into a sin cursed nature (Romans 5:12-21; Psalm 51:5). This is the sinful condition.
Catholicism, like other Christian religions, believes in the spiritual dignity of the human person because we are created in the image of God. It is because of this dignity and value in the sight of God, that God so loved the world… Romans 5: 12 -21 is an affirmation of John 3:16.

Psalm 51 begins with a plea for the mercy of God Who is goodness in the greatness of compassion. In verse 7 there is the recognition that sin is everywhere so that even birth takes place in the environment of personal sin. Still, the author prays, albeit in a vague way, for his soul, not his actions, to return to God.“A clean heart create for me,” begs the author, “and a steadfast spirit renew within me.” Psalm 51:12. His prayer is answered in Romans 5: 12-21

In its section on the definition of sin, the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, paragraph 1850 refers both to Psalm 51 and Genesis, chapter 3. Mankind continues to sin personally throughout history; yet, these sins reflect the Original Sin of Adam who freely chose Satan’s temptation to become like gods knowing all things. What else is there besides good and evil?

The Original Sin of Adam was primarily disobedience of the obvious “condition” that in order for the creature Adam to remain in the Creator’s friendship, he had to freely live in submission (through obedience) to his Creator. St. Paul knew and taught about the necessity of Adam’s obedience. “For just as through the disobedience of one person, the many were made sinners, so through the obedience of one (Jesus Christ), the many will be made righteous.” Romans 5: 19. Here, St. Paul makes sure that in this instance he is not talking about the accumulated sins of mankind, he is definitively talking about one person.

St. Paul continues his theme of one man and one Jesus in 1 Corinthians 15: 21-22. This time he names that one man.🙂 “For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead came also through a human being. For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life,”

I am not sure if I can properly explain what is happening. As one can tell from reading the above, Christians look to similar Scripture passages in order to understand the teachings handed down to the present day. For Catholics, understanding Original Sin is key to understanding the Divine Mystery of Christ.
When Christ is recognized as being Divine then Chapter six, Gospel of John, is understandable and so recognized as the Catholic Sacrament of the Eucharist.

There was a time in a high school class when we traced the paths of the main Reformers. I remember being “in love” with certain individuals. Tonight, I no longer remember the names of these individuals or how the differences between these men came about. I simply know that today there are differences in the way certain Scripture verses are interpreted and acted upon.

The above is just the beginning of Catholicism’s theology position.

Comments?
 
No, it is not against my faith. Pentecostals do not deny the spiritual presence of Christ in Holy Communion. I refer you to post 50 page 4 and post 281 page 19 of this thread, which touch on this topic. I also cite a rather old article from the Pentecostal Evangel of July 12, 1919, “The Lord’s Supper,” p. 12:

Partakers of His Nature. Jesus took the unleavend bread----for they never used leavened bread at the Passover----and blessed and break it and said, “Take, eat, this is My body.” As we come to the communion table, behind the symbol and the sign, we are to see our precious Savior and to appropriate and partake of Him. It is His desire to communicate Himself to us, and as we partake in faith, discerning Him whilst we feed, we receive life for our spirits, souls, and bodies.

God’s Medicine. We were at a meeting at one time when a sister arose and told of a vision she had had three times repeated to her. She saw a communion table with the bread and the wine laid upon it, and the Lord appeared to her and said, “This is My medicine for My children.” He told her that the reason that so many were weak and sickly was because they did not apprehend this provision for their bodies. Yes, at this feast we can partake of Christ, and He is alI we need for our bodies as well as for our spirits and our souls. Andrew Murray once wrote, “He gives Himself to me to be the food, the joy, the living power in my soul. O blessed heavenly giving of eternal love! Jesus gives me His own body: Jesus gives me Himself.” . . . .

. . . . Jesus took the cup and gave thanks----a second giving of thanks----and gave to the disciples, saying, “This is My blood of the new testament which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” The first testament or covenant was ratified by blood, and Moses not only sprinkled the book but all the people, Jer. 31: 31-34 gives us this new and better testament or covenant of which Jesus is the mediator, a covenant that promises us that the Lord will write Hiis law in our minds and hearts, that He will be our God and we shall be His people, that He will forgive our iniquities and remember our sins no more. Jesus’ blood was the “better sacrifice” that ratifies the new covenant, and it is blessed to be sprinkled with this precious flow and to know that all our sins are remitted, never to be remembered against us again.

The Blood of the Grapes. The blood of beasts before Jesus came prefigured the atonement, the blood of grapes now shows it forth. Jesus is the true Vine, and just as the blood of the grapes represents the very life of the vine, so Jesus at Calvary gave His very life blood for us. Because of the shedding of His blood we can now partake of His life. The blood was shed for the many for the remission of sins. Praise God for the limitlessness of the atonement of Christ. It Is for “whosoever will.” There is no limit to the preciousness and power of the blood of Christ.

Continued in next post
So you believe that Eucharist is body of Jesus… Thanks
 
So you believe that Eucharist is body of Jesus… Thanks
In a spiritual sense, we do. As I said in another post on this thread, Pentecostals are on the spectrum between Zwinglian’s memorial view and Calvin’s spiritual presence view. Pentecostals that have been heavily influenced by certain types of evangelical theology, such as Baptist, may subscribe to a more symbolic, memorial view.

It’s hard to explain because many of the early Pentecostals fervently denied ideas such as Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation. However, the way they spoke of the Lord’s Supper was in very mystical and ambiguous ways. It was as if they were not quite sure how to explain the presence of Christ in the Lord’s Supper, and they were grasping at an explanation. It is a mystery to put it simply.

One thing is certain, Pentecostals believe in the manifest presence of God. This is not limited to the Lord’s Supper, but Christ is certainly present in a dynamic way through the Holy Spirit when we partake in Holy Communion.

As J. Roswell Flower wrote (which I cite in a post above), “The Lord Jesus is brought very near in the observance of the Lord’s Supper”
 
I already responded to this in post 375 page 25. But I wanted to give you more writings from Pentecostals over the years that touch on this question. D.W. Kerr, “The Message of the Sacrament.” The Weekly Evangel (28 October 1916), p. 4:

Faith can grasp mysteries that are unexplainable. Faith enters into a realm far beyond the sphere of understanding, and can extract the good and joy out of what soars high above our reasonings. We have no need to preach a doctrine of consubstantiation nor of transubstantiation; we just receive Jesus ’words and act on them. "Whoso eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life."

William A. Cox, “The Spiritual Import of the Lord’s Supper.” The Weekly Evangel (May 4, 1918), p. 8:

It (the Lord’s Supper) is not an empty service, it does not mean simply being served with a little bread and wine on the first Sunday of the month— it is a means of fellowship with God, through Jesus, by the Spirit, and we have a right to come to it expecting God to meet us. Indeed we have a right to expect to draw so near to God that whatever our need may be at that moment, whether spiritual or physical, He will supply it. . . . when we eat of the divine body of the Lord Jesus, the living Bread which came down from heaven. . . He quickens the spiritual man; He revives the physical; He heals our diseases, and gives us strength to live by. By eating Jesus, the Bread of life, we have life in our physical bodies. . . . if we eat the flesh of Jesus, and drink His blood, we shall live by Him. So when you want to be healed, just take a great big meal of Jesus.

Cecil B. Knight, “Communion: A Sign and a Seal.” Church of God Evangel (22 March 1971), p. 16-17:

There is deep spiritual meaning in the Lord’s Supper. The participant does not merely look at the symbols; he receives spiritual food. Just as the bread and the fruit of the vine will nourish and invigorate the body of man, so Christ, through Communion, sustains and quickens the soul. When a Christian truly worships Christ in the Lord’s Supper, he is ministered to by the Holy Spirit, thereby receiving strength and a deep abiding peace.

J. Roswell Flower, “The Lord’s Supper.” Word and Witness (August 1915), p. 5:

The Lord Jesus is brought very near in the observance of the Lord’s Supper. The redemptive work for the body is often attested to, as the communicants partake in faith, drinking His blood, and eating His flesh, the Lord healing them of sicknesses and delivering them of infirmities. Praise His precious name forever.
Sorry, bible clearly tells that those who eat’s body and drinks the blood of Jesus have everlasting life… During his last supper he gave bread to his disciples after blessing it and told , This is my body , eat it. And took vine and blessed it and told , this is my blood. It is clearly mentioned that it is my body and blood and not it represents my body and blood.
 
Continuation of previous post

We believe that they should be confessed to God directly in prayer because he is the one who forgives sin. We are told in Holy Scripture “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9). We believe that when we have harmed others, we should make confession both to God in prayer and to the person or people wronged.

This is an authority given to the entire church. All believers have this authority. Part of this authority relates to church discipline. Another part of this authority relates to the prayers of believers as they relate to the remission of the temporal consequences of sin. James 5:13-20,
You can see in bible , people confessing to Apostles , Acts 19:18 “Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed what they had done.”. Why they confessed before apostles .?. Why didn’t they prayed directly to God for the forgiveness of Sin?.
 
You can see in bible , people confessing to Apostles , Acts 19:18 “Many of those who believed now came and openly confessed what they had done.”. Why they confessed before apostles .?. Why didn’t they prayed directly to God for the forgiveness of Sin?.
This does not really say what you want it to say. This is no different than someone involved in the occult becoming a born again Christian and confessing his former practices and sins before the congregation. And the congregation praises God and delights with the believer in his deliverance.
 
This does not really say what you want it to say. This is no different than someone involved in the occult becoming a born again Christian and confessing his former practices and sins before the congregation. And the congregation praises God and delights with the believer in his deliverance.
It is a clear incident in bible, about people confessing their sins before apostles…
 
Post by jerry_joseph
Originally Posted by jerry_joseph forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
So you believe that Eucharist is body of Jesus… Thanks

Reply by Itwin
In a spiritual sense, we do. As I said in another post on this thread, Pentecostals are on the spectrum between Zwinglian’s memorial view and Calvin’s spiritual presence view. Pentecostals that have been heavily influenced by certain types of evangelical theology, such as Baptist, may subscribe to a more symbolic, memorial view.

It’s hard to explain because many of the early Pentecostals fervently denied ideas such as Transubstantiation and Consubstantiation. However, the way they spoke of the Lord’s Supper was in very mystical and ambiguous ways. It was as if they were not quite sure how to explain the presence of Christ in the Lord’s Supper, and they were grasping at an explanation. It is a mystery to put it simply.

One thing is certain, Pentecostals believe in the manifest presence of God. This is not limited to the Lord’s Supper, but Christ is certainly present in a dynamic way through the Holy Spirit when we partake in Holy Communion.

As J. Roswell Flower wrote (which I cite in a post above), “The Lord Jesus is brought very near in the observance of the Lord’s Supper”
Reply to Itwin by granny.

From a Catholic theological position, Itwin is describing one of the many ways Christ continues to remain present on earth.

Both Pentecostals and Catholics believe in “the manifest presence of God”. Together, we find Christ in prayer, “For where two or three are gathered together in My name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18: 20) Christ is present in the Word of the Gospels. Christ is present in the poor, in the sick and the imprisoned. (Matthew 25: 31-46)

Catholicism continues on with Christ is present in the Seven Catholic Sacraments of which He is the author. He is present in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and in the person of the priest. Christ, Body and Blood, is present most especially in the Eucharistic species of consecrated Bread and Wine. “The mode of Christ’s presence under the Eucharistic species (Bread and Wine) is unique. It raises the Eucharist above all the sacraments…” (Source: Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition, paragraphs 1373-1374)

In my humble opinion, the Holy Spirit is calling Pentecostals to a greater union with Our Lord Jesus Christ as He is truly present in the Catholic Eucharist. (Chapter 6, Gospel of John)
 
Thanks for the offer but I’m not qualified to start a thread or represent any group.
The only qualifications you need to start a thread are adequate membership privileges and an appropriate topic. It is not necessary that you represent anyone but yourself.
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All I know is that I'm a sinner saved by grace and I continually stumble and fall but God has always been there to pick me up.  I really don't care if I'm known as a good Catholic, good Pentecostal or good Baptist because in the end I want to be like the prodigal son and have my father waiting with open arms saying welcome home.
This won’t happen unless you get out of the pig sty. 😃
I visited a Catholic church the other day and I hope I wasn’t out of line. During prayer I raised my arms and a few minutes later I realized that people were staring. I didn’t mean to cause a scene but I felt the move of the Holy Spirit and I raised my arms to “surrender” to his will.
Catholics, being staunchly liturgical, gave up the raising of arms during Mass centuries ago, so unless you are at a Charismatic Mass people will probably stare at you.
Well that’s pretty much me in a nutshell. I honestly don’t like to argue and debate. I figure God will be the judge and jury but in the meantime I just want to be a servant and friend.
So what brings you to CAF?
 
I’ve always been curious about Catholicism and I also wanted to learn more about the faith. Growing up it always seemed so “mystical”. There were very few Catholics in my home town but I just happened to live next to a sweet elderly Catholic lady that always told me that I needed to pray to the baby Jesus. As a kid I thought that was nice but never understood what she meant since he had grown up and been cruxified.
I also grew up with the image of Catholics always being drunk and/or seeing images of Mary and Jesus in their French toast, lint traps, grilled cheese, etc… I know it sounds crazy but when television is your only reference it’s easy to get that impression.
Now that I’m older I’m trying to get in the habit of getting information about different people and groups from the source. I still have a lot to learn about Catholicism. I also have many questions but I’m trying to figure out the best way to ask (or who to ask) without sounding offensive or starting an argument.
 
Speaking to prophesy would get you booted right out the door of our church.
LOL yes I think those of us with strong Liturgical traditions are very closed to much of any spontaneity during them.

But what about private prayer? Is it acceptable to speak in tongues or experience a prophesy when one is praying privately, or in a small group?
With any new prophesy we seem to lack the ability to discern good from bad, and hence are suspicious of it all.
Would this not just be a lack of catechesis? I think Catholics have the same problem. The average layperson has not learned basic principles of discernment.
The traditional Lutheran answer is that we already have enough prophesy.
Ok, that is what I thought, and was wanting to confirm it. On what basis is this conclusion reached?
I agree! I’m torn - because I love good solid Liturgy, but I do see the holy spirit working in those that have those gifts. But I do also have a lot of reservations as well. Perhaps I need to learn to trust God more, but I also have to balance that with the risk of losing what little Grace I’ve been able to accept as it is.
Has there been any charismatic renewal in the Lutheran circles? Would a group of Lutherans ever have a prayer group outside of Liturgy for the purpose of experiencing the spontaneous movement of the Holy Spirit?
 
There is a saying from years ago – if the prophesy is to have the congregation build an Olympic swimming pool in the back yard of the Preacher – something is fishy.😉
Oh I so totally agree granny! I prefer my fish in a pond, and NO fish in my pool! 😃
 
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  I hope you don't mind me responding.  Personally,  I consider anyone who loves God with all their heart and soul to be a Christian
I know some Jews and Muslims that would be very insulted by this attitude.
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A good indicator is how someone behaves out in the real world when a priest, pastor or church congregation isn't watching.
Yep.

I think lots of people forget their guardian angel is watching. And what if people were cognizant of being watched by the saints?

Heb 12:1
Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight and the sin that clings so closely, and let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us,
 
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