Ask a Satanist - A thread to explain what Laveyan Satanists actually believe

[richard_wang]

I find it hilarious that people are treating this thread seriously.

Would you treat seriously someone who believe in a “Klingon” or “Jedi” religion?

Satanism along with Wiccah, Magick and all those other Neo-Pagan religions are jokes.

Satanism was founded by Anton LaVey who, because he possessed no other talent than being a police photographer, thought he would shock his way to media stardom.

Wiccah was founded by Alastair Crowley as a means of justifying his sexual deviance and also as a means to “get lucky with the ladies”.

In fact, scratch any New Age religion and you’ll always find a conman.

In my travels in Neo-Pagan land, I’ve found that what the followers are really seeking is a method of gaining social acceptance or attention which they otherwise don’t have in their lives.

The followers believe that they now have access to powers and knowledge that will place them above ordinary people.

What I have to guard against is thinking - look the Devil can’t be all that powerful if all he can attract are these geeks, freaks and nerds.

So these Satanist and Magick people aren’t dangerous because of their beliefs, which are generally laughable. No their danger lays in that fact that they act like a distraction from true evil.

*…la plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu’il n’existe pas!

• • Baudelaire (or if you like Keyser Soze)

Trans: The Devil’s best trick is to persuade you he doesn’t exist.

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RosalieM

I grew up near LaVey’s “Black House” in San Francisco.

At first I thought that it was scary, but after awhile seeing the LaVey’s and the people in the house, all us kids thought it was rather sad and stupid.

We were always disappointed that this “House of Satan” gave out such bad candy at Halloween.

Curse you satanist! Candy corn again!

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Most practitioners don’t divide what they do into categories of black and white. Magick is so artistical that is hard to find one definition that fits.

Even if they don’t that doesn’t mean there isn’t an objective reality. I’m positing that the objective truth or reality is what was revealed in Scriptures and Tradition. It doesn’t matter if an individual doesn’t divide it - God does.

Prayer is a form of magick. Magick is the art and science of working with nature to produce change. Magick can be seen as ritualized prayer. Most practitioners do work with God, and they see this force as omnipresent throughout the Universe.

After reading this, it became apparent to me that we are viewing this in two different ways - two different definitions of magick. I dislike the term to begin with. I equate magick with sorcery, which is forbidden in Scriptures. For example, changing the weather through magickal spells (power reserved for the angels, Jesus and God), love spells, curses, career spells, etc.

I’m not sure of your definition of “nature”. Since that is the case, it’s hard to get down to brass tacks about what energy we are talking about manipulating. I’ve never seen a person work magick with God. If they do, they are sorely misguided. And there’s another problem. That is, if they are only seeing God as a “force” of nature as the Devil is a “force” of nature you start running into some real problems.

God is not simply a force. He’s a Divine personal being in spirit who created all there is and who has a plan for His creation. The Devil is not simply a force either. He’s a real being, lower in stature than God who seeks to undermine God’s will. If you relegate these people to “forces”, then they are simply energies that are manipulated. In my worldview this is inaccurate.

There are people who use magick for sick purposes, yes. But there are those who use it to help also. Christians use prayer for selfish purposes as well.

Yes, some Christians pray for mansions, riches and other things that are considered selfish. But, their behavior isn’t indicative of the guidelines that God instituted for prayer. This is the same problem LaVey had.

His self-righteous attitude that says - “see! that deacon is having an affair, so what’s the use of his religion!” What he failed to realize is that the morality to not do such a thing still exists. The deacon chose to disobey that. And LaVey relegates himself as judge and jury and throws morality out the window.

In Wicca, you cannot attempt to control anyone’s free will, hurt anyone, as in cursing, or use magick to get money unless you are failing financially. Sometimes we just perform magick rituals in a religious sense, just to honor and give thanks to the Divine Source. The strongest magick arises out of compassion. We are supposed to enter the circle with “Perfect Love and Perfect Trust.” Love is the core of all my magick.

And there’s the rub. We Christians don’t ascribe to a nameless, faceless “Divine Source” We have seen the face of Jesus which is the face of God. Wicca, to me, is just a sanitized, meaningless, modern stepchild riding on the coattails of Satanism. That’s my view. Like it or not.

A case in point - Pan. What a miserable wretch. My experiences with him is that he is a filthy-minded evil god/demon who is rebellious against my Father. I’ve had experiences with other pagan gods too, like Isis. Same scenario. Dark beings rebellious against what is holy and true.

Then why bother praying? If everything is destined by God, then why bother praying or trying to accomplish anything at all in your life? God helps those who helps themselves. The act of magick/prayer could be the way destined by God to bring about the change.

The point of prayer is communion with God.

No, you are ascribing to fatalism - which I do not. We are to conform to His will in our lives, not live our lives independently of Him. You should do your best to accomplish your goals of getting a better job, making friends with neighbors. Prayer is telling God about your problems and your joys. He already knows what you need - as told to us in Scripture.

I agree that these are highly immoral reasons. Satanic views seem really selfish to me, as they only focus on the material and what our minds percieve to be real.

Good - at least we agree on one thing

I think the story of Adam and Eve are purely symbolic, but they lost contact with God and were punished. Part of that lost knowledge, the knowledge of God, could have been the sciences of magick. And people probably do use magick for bad purposes. They will learn their lessons though, as magick that does not arise out of compassion will consume you. But in Wicca it is frowned up. That is why magick is a neutral force. Like knives…it can be used to cut bread or stab someone.

You are pre-supposing that it could’ve been. I submit that it was not. He would have still found a way to teach mankind magick if that’s what he wanted. As it stands, He did not. And Scripture bears out the prohibition against sorcery. The rebellious Watchers did that. And for their disobedience they were punished. There were approximately 200 of them who did so.

Again, we have Scriptures and Tradition to lead us on the right path. Those two foundations tell us that magick is not a neutral force, that God is not simply a “Divine Source” and that sorcery is wrong. We have an objective moral law that leads us. It is not up to us to change that or manipulate it. We are to obey what God has taught us.

Plus, I welcome you to read my blog. It details my experience with “spirit” and magick. So, I have Scripture, Tradition and experience that lead my mind and heart. I cannot do otherwise. I tried that already.

Peace…

MW

 

[ReConverted]

One of the delusions that we will clear up at the outset of this expose is the lie that leading Satanist’s do not believe in or truly worship the devil. First of all it should be understood that Anton LaVey, the founder of the Church of Satan viewed Satan as a true entity that he truly worshipped before his death. Anton LaVey deceived a lot of people who joined the Church of Satan by claiming that Satan only represented the repressed forces of nature but was not a real entity. In my interviews with former Charles Manson family member Susan Atkins, who is still in prison after being convicted of eight murders, Atkins blew the lid off of Anton’s lie. As a former associate of Anton LaVey’s, who danced for him and spent personal time with him before joining the Manson family, Atkins was privy to conversations with LaVey before he became popular. Atkins told me repeatedly that while LaVey promotes a watered down, palatable form of Satanism to the ignorant masses which he is deceiving, he acknowledged the exact opposite to her and to his inner core of Satanist in the church of Satan. Susan Atkins told me that LaVey told her emphatically while she was in his home that they truly worshipped Satan as a real entity and as the one who began the initial rebellion against God. Atkins also stated:

Susan Atkins“Anton told me that as a Satanist he does believe in the God of the bible but he refused to worship him and made a conscious decision to worship Satan instead.” (Personal interview with Susan Atkins)

We have pictures of Atkins with LaVey in his ritual chamber when she associated with the Church of Satan. LaVey was aware that few people were ignorant enough to truly turn their lives over to Satan, knowing that they would not only be allowing themselves to be deceived by their worst enemy but that they would spend eternity in the fiery torments of hell. LaVey therefore presented a seeker sensitive, user-friendly form of Satanism in the hope that it might appeal to the masses he was seeking to deceive. LaVey sought to put a spin on Satanism as a kinder and gentler form of Devil worship claiming that Satan merely represents a force in nature and that rather than Satanist’s sacrificing animals and little children they are animal activist who love children. All of this was done to garner unwitting recruits. For starters, one should never trust a Satanist. Satanist’s view lying to be among their highest virtues as do true Christians truth. LaVey and other Satanist serve the one who Jesus repudiated as “The father of lies”. (John 8:44) It would be just like the father of lies to cloak his religion in non-reality. Satan has long been about deception and has successfully deceived many recruits into believing that they are simply worshipping a symbol rather than a reality. Satan relishes in such ignorance. Atkins’ testimony that LaVey was deliberately duping Satanists in the outer circle is corroborated by evidence from LaVey’s own admissions. LaVey let his guard down when responding to other Satanist that considered him, “not extreme enough”. LaVey, while in a defensive mode, admitted that the image that he presented publicly was deceptive, declaring:

“If they’re at all intelligent [other true Satanist] …they’ll realize that there’s only so much I can say publicly…I will not advance things in print which make my position untenable…How long would the Church of Satan have lasted if I hadn’t appeased and outraged in just the right combination? It required a certain amount of discretion and diplomacy to balance the outrage.” (Lucifer Rising, p. 133)

As a very happy Catholic and a former Pagan, lemme tell you, there is so much nonsense in your post that I dunno where to begin. Booga booga!

 

[averheyen]

Hi! I’m new and a LaVeyan Satanist. I’m sure you all have one idea of Satanists or another. I’m afraid I can’t explain the Theistic branches, but I started this thread to answer any questions or misconceptions you might have. This thread is intended to be nothing more than a simple Q&A for people who want to know the truth about what we believe. I’ll gladly answer any questions you might have. But, this is not an argumentive thread. I’m a nice person, but any preaching, proselytizing, bigotry, insulting, and etc. will be ignored. This is a friendly thread and I want to keep it that way.

Ask away!
Selkis

You’re rollin’ with the wrong crowd, bro.

Or maybe we’re the right crowd, I don’t know.

 

[ReConverted]

Susan Atkins told him that LaVey told her emphatically while she was in his home that they truly worshipped Satan as a real entity and as the one who began the initial rebellion against God. Atkins also stated:

“Anton told me that as a Satanist he does believe in the God of the bible but he refused to worship him and made a conscious decision to worship Satan instead.” (Personal interview with Susan Atkins

She was one of LaVey’s followers, and had no reason to lie. You must be a lower level member of the church of satan, as only the higher-ups are privy to this information.

I’m a committed Catholic. I support pro-life work. God bless you for that. I also believe in loving my neighbor. That includes Satanists. That doesn’t mean that I agree with Satanism. I don’t.

However, your statements remind me of the evangelical Protestant “pseudo experts” who make a living using poor reasoning, collecting rumours, sensationally (and badly) written “true accounts” of people who supposedly “really know” because “they were in the inner circle.” Can you say Mike Warnke? Most of it is pure schlock made use of so that some evangelical can start a “ministry” which he can make a nice living off of it.

 

[blacktiger057]

Wiccah was founded by Alastair Crowley as a means of justifying his sexual deviance and also as a means to “get lucky with the ladies”.

Um, no, he didn’t. You even spelled his name wrong, and you spelled Wicca wrong, too. And while Wicca respects all people, including homosexuals, the balance is between God and Goddess. If anyone can be responsible for founding Wicca, it is Gardner. But even Wicca is an umbrella term because there are numerous traditions. Wicca draws on pagans religions from the past, mostly. But there are also many new parts to it. It is influenced by many past pagan cultures in a spirituality of woinderful diversity.

Please educate yourself before you make such stupid statements. Aleister Crowley was part of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and founded the Thelemic Order, not Wicca.

 

[blacktiger057]

Plus, I welcome you to read my blog. It details my experience with “spirit” and magick. So, I have Scripture, Tradition and experience that lead my mind and heart. I cannot do otherwise. I tried that already.

I’d love to read your blog! Can you post a link please?

 

[ReConverted]

I’m a liberal Mormon, chaos magician, paradigm pirate, and recent Catholic convert (cafeteria style).

What are the advantages of Satanism over the original material that LaVey borrowed? Why shouldn’t I just go to Crowley, Dee, etc.?

I’d skip Crowley. I was a member of the O.T.O. Blecch!

 

[Imryl]

It would be helpful if Chris LaRock would provide his sources; such as a link or specific article. If an assertion is made, it is the responsibility of the person making the assertion to defend it… Not the general readership.

Personally, I love all these so-called experts on Satanism. I wonder how many have really sat down and actually learned anything about it, or the people who involve themselves in it. You certainly don’t need to accept it, or approve of it, but please don’t go slinging your “facts” (personal opinions) around.

If you’re not interest, or can’t take it seriously… take the other posters advice, and move along.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

What happened to Selkis?

 

[ReConverted]

It would be helpful if Chris LaRock would provide his sources; such as a link or specific article. If an assertion is made, it is the responsibility of the person making the assertion to defend it… Not the general readership.

Personally, I love all these so-called experts on Satanism. I wonder how many have really sat down and actually learned anything about it, or the people who involve themselves in it. You certainly don’t need to accept it, or approve of it, but please don’t go around slinging your “facts” (personal opinions).

If you’re not interest, or can’t take it seriously… take the other posters advice, and move along.

BINGO, to use my favorite Catholic theological term!

 

[ReConverted]

What happened to Selkis?

He got tired of some very uncharitable people in this forum.
It makes me sick to think of the response he got here, again, from certain people.

** OUR BLESSED LORD JESUS CHRIST DIED FOR SELKIS AS MUCH AS ANYONE ELSE!!! **
If Selkis goes to Hell, some of you may well end up with HIS blood on YOUR hands at the day of judgement.
THAT’S RIGHT, YOU WHO WERE UNCHARITABLE TO SELKIS DID A GREAT JOB OF SERVING SATAN. YEAH, YOU!
OUR LORD WOULDN’T HAVE TREATED HIM AS YOU DID.
**To the people that did this, You should be ashamed of yourselves! Go to confession and pray for Selkis’ soul!!! **

Most blessed virgin, mother of God, please pray for Selkis. Amen.

 

[Richard_1]

To LeVeyan Satanists, Satan is more of a metaphor for following all of the drives and pleasures of human nature. They reject Christ so they believe that one should indulge in such pleasures as much as possible because, like most atheists believe, there is nothing after this life. They aren’t much like actual theistic devil worshipers.

I’ll say this as charitable as possible. Of course LeVeyan satanists believe in doing all things pleasurable (no consiquince forthcoming.) Is that not what the father of lies would want you to believe. Hell is a real place with very real suffering. I will pray for you. However, while I do believe in tolerance. I do not believe in tolerating evil, and that is what satanism is"in any form" yours is simply a watered down version with the same end result. Hell!

 

[wanner47]

I’ll say this as charitable as possible. Of course LeVeyan satanists believe in doing all things pleasurable (no consiquince forthcoming.) Is that not what the father of lies would want you to believe. Hell is a real place with very real suffering. I will pray for you. However, while I do believe in tolerance. I do not believe in tolerating evil, and that is what satanism is"in any form" yours is simply a watered down version with the same end result. Hell!

Just so you know, the person who posted the above is not the OP. Rather, he is a Christian who knows something about the OP’s belief system.

 

[ReConverted]

Yeah, I’m not too keen on him, myself. Though he’s still way better than Lavey, who essentially plagiarized everything.

Most of my favorite occult authors are still alive, and I know a couple of them personally. But the one who’s influenced me the most would have to be Eliphas Levi, who inspired me to join the Catholic Church.

As for the magic/magick debate, the “k” is for pretentious people.

Well, I agree with you concerning LaVey’s plagiarism, and that Crowley most certainly did conceive and write his material. (But to be clear, I’m now a Traditional Catholic and so I reject their beliefs!) However, I can’t say who was “better”. They both fostered much evil.

Dominus Vobiscum,

Johnny

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

Um, no, he didn’t. You even spelled his name wrong, and you spelled Wicca wrong, too. And while Wicca respects all people, including homosexuals, the balance is between God and Goddess. If anyone can be responsible for founding Wicca, it is Gardner. But even Wicca is an umbrella term because there are numerous traditions. Wicca draws on pagans religions from the past, mostly. But there are also many new parts to it. It is influenced by many past pagan cultures in a spirituality of woinderful diversity.

Please educate yourself before you make such stupid statements. Aleister Crowley was part of the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn and founded the Thelemic Order, not Wicca.

Indeed, in fact there’s an anecdotal Crowley quote that said he had no interest “in being ordered around by a damned woman”–however, Crowley was apparently friends with Gardner, and MIGHT have written some rituals for the retired civil servant–with the idea Wicca was ok for lesser sorts who couldnt handle Crowley’s brand of occultism.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

I’d love to read your blog! Can you post a link please?

Hey BT.

It’s in my profile as I didn’t want to just “promote” myself. But here goes:

mysticwarrior.wordpress.com

You may not agree with any of it. But if you don’t, at least you might get a good laugh Either way, you know I wish you well, friend.

Peace…

MW

 

[richard_wang]

I reiterate why is anyone even taking any of what these people say seriously?

I’m all for being charitable but to give their beliefs any credence is to fuel their delusions.

Why would you try to debate seriously someone who’s beliefs are based upon b-movies and the TV shows “Charmed” and “Buffy the Vampire Slayer”?

One of the great errors of our modern society is a notion of relativism, that you can’t judge things by some standard. Well as Catholics we certainly know that a grave error.

We need to stand up and say, “I’m sorry you’ve been duped, but you’ve got to be an idiot if you believe such idiotic things.”

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Blacktiger057

However you spell it, Aleister, Alaister, Allastier… It still means the same thing - CONMAN!

 

[Jordan_Francis]

Originally Posted by Wyatt View Post
I know a bit about LeVeyan Satanism. Let me give it a shot. LeVeyan Satanism, although a common misconception, is not a theistic religion, but an atheistic one…and not even really a religion at that, but rather a philosophy. It is the complete antithesis of Christianity. It sees Christ as a myth used throughout the ages by the Catholic Church to frighten and control people, and believes that one should pursue whatever pleases them, provided it does not cause any undue harm to others. Sound right so far?

God’s blessings to you (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) and welcome to the forum,

Wyatt

Selkis:
Very good! That’s pretty accurate! Although you might be being a little harsh, we don’t condemn Christianity or anything. My best friend is Catholic

…Now this is what I don’t understand…

You subscribe to a non-theistic world view that then {necessarily] denies the existence of Satan as a cosmic being…you have no antagonistic attitudes to the Catholic Church or Christianity in general…yet you utilize a label that, for obvious reasons, suggests something quite other and hostile.

Why label your belief system according to the primary “demon” or antagonist of the Christian theistic system and then spend so much time trying to clear up people’s [quite logical] mis-conceptions?

Isn’t the label “satanist” really chosen for its shock and inversion value? Does it not suggest, by title, that it is drawn into an inevitable and profound inner tension with the Christian vision? And, in fact, flatly contrary to thousands of years of supposedly self-evident wisdom?

Do you expect people to see this as something other than a kind of prolonged, naive adolescent rebellion?

If your belief system is ultimately unrelated to Abrahamic monotheism, I would suggest going for a different title.

 

[blacktiger057]

Hey BT.

It’s in my profile as I didn’t want to just “promote” myself. But here goes:

mysticwarrior.wordpress.com

You may not agree with any of it. But if you don’t, at least you might get a good laugh Either way, you know I wish you well, friend.

Peace…

MW

Thanks MW! I always like hearing other’s point of view, even if I do not fully agree with them. Right now I am trying to find people who converted to Catholicism and find what drew then so much to it. I’m reading The Seven Storey Mountain by Thomas Merton. I really like it so far, but I’m only about a quarter way through. Even though I disagree with many Catholic issues, I still like certain parts of the faith.