Ask A Scientologist.

[Honorius]

They also spend a lot of money on a base near Trementina, New Mexico where in they are recording every single word of LRH’s writings, lectures, films, et al. on stainless steel sheets, rolled up and stored in indexed titanium steel capsules flooded with inert gas and stored in geologically stable underground caverns so that, if and when we annihilate ourselves as a species, the returning souls of SeaOrg members in the distant future will know where to find them. I’m not kidding on that, either. That’s the whole idea.

Wouldn’t it be sad if there was some horrible disaster and that was the main source left of how life was like at this period in history? But anyways, would you happen to know anything about actual numbers of active numbers of "church’’ members, because I heard it was similar to other cults and counts anyone still living that was at one point or another a member in the total membership number.

 

[BeProfOSX]

Ok so these Body Thetans, the souls of things that are attached to us, which we are trying to remove from our own body/souls… does anyone care about them? Aren’t they being negatively affected by being stuck with us too? Does Scientology have a plan to free them so they can go live their own healthy spiritual lives, or are we just focused on the human souls within this belief system?

Dealing with Body Thetans is the entirety of OT III through OT VII. Again without going into things that Scientology would consider copyrighted, confidential materials, OT III deals with two Incidents that are on the track of every single being in this universe (in the case of Incident I) and of every single being on this planet (in the case of Incident II, the Xenu thing.)

OT IV, V, and VII (with VI acting as a training step for VII) deal, in a way, with the same kinds of stuff that you did on the Grades but aimed at making your Body Thetans realize that they are separate beings from you and that they very much need to shuffle off and get their own bodies.

 

[BeProfOSX]

Wouldn’t it be sad if there was some horrible disaster and that was the main source left of how life was like at this period in history? But anyways, would you happen to know anything about actual numbers of active numbers of "church’’ members, because I heard it was similar to other cults and counts anyone still living that was at one point or another a member in the total membership number.

The answer to that question depends on how you define “Scientologist.”

The Church’s definition is anyone who’s ever taken a course. By their definition, I’m a Scientologist, even though I do not now not have I ever considered myself one.

We could use the membership numbers of IAS, if we knew them, but I think that’s probably not workable either. IAS membership would include a lot of lifetime members who are no longer active. Regardless, you would be looking at, perhaps, 100 - 150 thousand globally by that count.

Most critics of Scientology point to what little scientific data exist on the subject of people who self-identify as Scientologists. That number, the last time anybody did a study, is about 50,000 in the United States with, at most, about 20,000 in addition to that globally. The US, and a few other countries, do track self-identified Scientology figures in the census. Their number generally agree with the academic research on the subject. That’s problematic, however, because a great number of self-identified Scientologists have either formally left the church or have simply “dropped off the lines” in recent years.

I think a better number would be the number of people who received training or processing, other than the Introductory Services, at any Scientology Org in the last year. By that reckoning you have maybe 30,000 Scientologists world wide. Sure, they have lots of buildings and the look very nice, but try walking into one of them sometime, there’s nobody there. They have trouble getting even a few hundred warm bodies to fill a small auditorium in Los Angeles for goodness sake and that’s with mandating that all contracted staff (SeaOrg or otherwise) in the entire state of California show up.

What few internal stats are available tell a similar story. Sales of Dianetics are way down, and that’s with the new “Golden Age of Tech” edition that every Scientologist is supposed to buy. Stats on Clear and OT level completions at Flag in Clearwater are way down as well. We’re talking perhaps a few dozen OT completions (any level) annually at what is purported to be the biggest and best Scientology Org in the world.

Long and short, there never really were that many Scientologists and they are rapidly imploding.

 

[BeProfOSX]

They are of the Devil. Google “Operation Snow White”. Read the accounts at exscientologykids.com. Learn what happened to Lisa McPherson, Kyle Brennan, and Jeremy Perkins. Read about the man who founded this cult - L. Rom Hubbard - and his lies.

Scientology is dangerous.

The Church certainly is.

Individual Scientologists, not so much, at least not in my experience.

What I’ve found is that, generally, the further away from Los Angeles and from the official power structure you get, the more reasonable and just… well… decent Scientologists become.

 

[504Katrin]

Is it true that Scientology is involved/knows what’s going on in Area 51?

 

[flameburns623]

Are you able to speak to the Scientology Free zone and/or the rather small splinter groups which have hived-away from the main organization?

Obviously, some of these are probably cult-of-personality groups, as unethical and as authoritarian as it appears the main organization is. (I say that as someone who rarely uses loaded language in describing alternative religious movements–but almost everything I have heard about the Church of Scientology seems to justify being wary of that organization).

Anyhow-what little I have seen of Freezoners online suggests such groups are often much less oppressive than what I have read about the CoS itself. And, frankly, what I have experienced of Scientologists online by way of Beliefnet and similar forums. Scientology seems to be extraordinarly tightly buttoned down and they do not welcome probing questions. The online interactions I have had have made me uncomfortable even visiting the local St. Louis CoS.

I was astonied to see this thread here. Thanks for the opportunity to interact with someone who has some measure of inside insight.

 

[BeProfOSX]

Is it true that Scientology is involved/knows what’s going on in Area 51?

Not as such. I mean… Scientologists can and do join the military and work for military contractors so I suppose it’s possible for one or two of them to have passed through the Nevada Test Range, but the Church isn’t directly involved with anything going on there.

 

[ffg]

Welcome to the forums!

I didn’t read through the thread yet, but we just had this church setup shop downtown here, a lot of advertisement in the windows, I was curious -

If I walked into the new church of Scientology they just setup downtown here, would I have to pay to learn the intimate details about it’s teachings?

Take care,

 

[BeProfOSX]

Are you able to speak to the Scientology Free zone and/or the rather small splinter groups which have hived-away from the main organization?

I’m actually more familiar with the informal free zone than I am with Scientology proper (as opposed to the formal Freezone, which is a specific splinter group from the main Church of Scientology.) Specifically, I did a lot of work with Ken Ogger’s (aka “The Pilot”) Self-Clearing.

I found it to be about as effective as “real” Scientology, which is to say, not very. I mean… the “win” feels good for a while, but then you get smacked back to reality and you realize that this is well… useless pseudo-intellectual self-gratification of the highest order.

Again, that’s my experience. Your mileage may vary.

Obviously, some of these are probably cult-of-personality groups, as unethical and as authoritarian as it appears the main organization is. (I say that as someone who rarely uses loaded language in describing alternative religious movements–but almost everything I have heard about the Church of Scientology seems to justify being wary of that organization).

Anyhow-what little I have seen of Freezoners online suggests such groups are often much less oppressive than what I have read about the CoS itself. And, frankly, what I have experienced of Scientologists online by way of Beliefnet and similar forums. Scientology seems to be extraordinarly tightly buttoned down and they do not welcome probing questions. The online interactions I have had have made me uncomfortable even visiting the local St. Louis CoS.

I was astonied to see this thread here. Thanks for the opportunity to interact with someone who has some measure of inside insight.

The freezone is pretty free-wheeling. You find everything from latter-day hippie New Age types that are gloming Scientology onto all sorts of wacky things, to really straight laced, stick to “Source” ex-Scientologists who are absolutely true believers in LRH and the Tech but take issue with what they see as “out-tech” and “out-ethics” on the part of David Miscavige and the official Church.

It’s like any other mish-mash in the New Age: There are decent, if pretty “out there,” people. There are dangerous mind-control cults that make the Church of Scientology seem downright benign by comparison.

Interestingly enough, going all the way back to the 50’s, when Dianetics was still being pitched as legitimate psycho-therapy, there are real, honest to goodness psychiatrists and psychologists (albeit not very many of them) who have taken Dianetic-type therapy in entirely new evidence-based directions. They, reportedly, can do wonders with PTSD cases.

Of course, you also have a lot of chiropractors who mix Dianetics/Scientology into their practice, which, if you think about it, makes total sense since Scientology is basically the chiropractic of mental health.

 

[BeProfOSX]

Welcome to the forums!

I didn’t read through the thread yet, but we just had this church setup shop downtown here, a lot of advertisement in the windows, I was curious -

If I walked into the new church of Scientology they just setup downtown here, would I have to pay to learn the intimate details about it’s teachings?

Take care,

You won’t get much for free. They’ll give you a Scientology based personality test that’s essentially nothing more than a marketing tool. They’ll show you a free orientation film. You can go to Sunday Services for free. You can usually get Assists and “demo” Auditing for free.

Whatever you do, they’ll hard sell you on signing up for one or more Introductory Services, usually on the Life Improvement Route. If you have a history with drugs or alcohol, then you’ll usually get sent up the Purification Route. If you’re a “professional” type, they may route you up the Personal Efficiency Route. There are other routes, but those are the most common, by far.

You can actually do the Life Improvement Courses (and some of the other introductory courses) for free, on-line, at the official Church of Scientology website or via their official iOS App (yes, Virginia, there is indeed an app for that.) Just do yourself a favor and use a burner e-mail address when you sign up for them.

To get the real nitty-gritty though you’ll either need to buy the books or sign up for Auditor training.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Scientology, to me at least, seems like a scam. All I here is money, and large amounts of it, for these “auditing” sessions and what-not. It just a huge money grabbing corporation disguised as a so called church.

Yes, money is very important in Scientology, as is your time. You have to pay for courses and auditing. You have to pay for the books, lectures, and course material. You have to pay for the International Association of Scientologists membership. Even after you pay for membership (either Annual or Lifetime), you will still be asked to “up your status” and donate more. When you go to an event, whether it’s for L Ron Hubbard’s birthday, New Year’s Eve, Dianetics Day, special briefing on something, Flag World Tour, etc, you will be asked to donate to the IAS or for some other cause. There will be staff recruitment events (I went to one of those, thought it was just a special briefing on a new Org in our area, as that’s what they told me) where you’ll be pressured to join staff.

Now, lets say you love Scientology, but have no money to be able to afford to do it. So you join staff (Scientology courses and auditing levels are free for staff members, though you still have to pay for books and other materials). The problem is, staff is full time+ hours, and you earn less than minimum wage. Most will also have a side job to be able to pay living expenses. So, if you’re on staff at the Scientology org (let’s say you’re on Day staff, which is Monday-Friday 9-6pm, and for staff, you’ll obviously be there before and after those hours), and you have a side job, there’s really no time to do Scientology and go up the Bridge. That’s why you see many staff members stagnating on the Bridge, going very slowly, since there’s not enough time to do it. I remember sitting in the staff recruiter’s office one day, and people were coming in and out saying that some staff member had just “attested to” (basically completed) one of the low level services on the Bridge, and that it was so exciting. But she was a life long Scientologist, probably on staff for a few years, and was only just finishing that low level action.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Welcome to the forums!

I didn’t read through the thread yet, but we just had this church setup shop downtown here, a lot of advertisement in the windows, I was curious -

If I walked into the new church of Scientology they just setup downtown here, would I have to pay to learn the intimate details about it’s teachings?

Take care,

You can go to the Scientology website and look at the videos there if you’re curious. They have some of the videos that you’ll see at the actual church (or Organization, “Org”). They also have an Inside a Church of Scientology video that shows what it’s like inside (it’s not like a Christian church building, though there is a chapel area).

As far as learning the intimate details, well, you can learn the basics from the videos. There will be a “Public Information Center” with displays and videos on the basic beliefs of Scientology, as well as there various service activities. They’ll most likely ask you what you feel like you need help with in life, and then ask you to either buy a book, take a personality test (which will always say that you need help in some area, and luckily, Scientology can help), and/or sign up for some course or seminar. These intro courses and seminars are designed to teach basic Scientology principles to apply to specific areas of your life (such as finances, work, relationships, etc), so that you can realize that Scientology “works”, and will sign up for further, more expensive courses and services. I did the “Personal Efficiency Course” first (that cost $50), which taught principles on how to be more efficient at work (which takes up a large portion of our lives) and life. As I mentioned before, these intro services will most likely be helpful to you, and they know that, otherwise no one would continue on in Scientology!

So, if you do end up going to check it out, do your best to resist their hard selling of a service. Don’t give any info (you will have to sign in at reception though. everyone, including actual Scientologists, signs in and out when they come and go, I guess to gauge how many people come in a day). Just say that you’ll come back another time, or you’ll think about it. They’ll still try to get you to stay and sign up (probably tell you that this is the most important day of your life or something like that), but you don’t have to. If you buy a book, they’ll ask you for your address (the Bookstore isn’t like a regular one where you just go, get what you want, swipe your card/pay cash, and that’s it. here, you go, get what you want, and have to fill out a form with your info, then you pay), and will most likely send you a letter later on asking if you read it, what you thought, and how they can help. Just buy the book from Amazon if you’re that curious.

Good luck!

 

[LivingWaters7]

Of course, you also have a lot of chiropractors who mix Dianetics/Scientology into their practice, which, if you think about it, makes total sense since Scientology is basically the chiropractic of mental health.

Funny, I remember meeting a chiropractor at the HGC at my org one day.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Sales of Dianetics are way down, and that’s with the new “Golden Age of Tech” edition that every Scientologist is supposed to buy.

I think you mean the Golden Age of Knowledge.

The funny thing about that (for those that don’t know, basically, the Scientology leadership one day in 2009 I believe said that they discovered various errors in their Basics books, basically transcription errors that sometimes changed meanings and other issues. So, the previous version of the books were destroyed, and they re-released the books in corrected format, against the original LRH manuscripts) is that apparently, they did the same thing in 1991!

leavingscientology.wordpress.com/2009/07/19/seven-things-were-not-supposed-to-remember/

 

[BeProfOSX]

I think you mean the Golden Age of Knowledge.

You’re right. I misspoke. Golden Age of Tech was the grand purge and re-cert of Auditors.

 

[ffg]

Thanks for responding.

I figured there was a hierarchy based on cash paid since the rich seem to be the face of the religion. I just wasn’t sure at what point they reach for your pocket.

Leads to a question that may have been asked - Do you consider Scientology a religion? .

 

[504Katrin]

Not as such. I mean… Scientologists can and do join the military and work for military contractors so I suppose it’s possible for one or two of them to have passed through the Nevada Test Range, but the Church isn’t directly involved with anything going on there.

Thank you for your kind reply

 

[BeProfOSX]

Thanks for responding.

I figured there was a hierarchy based on cash paid since the rich seem to be the face of the religion. I just wasn’t sure at what point they reach for your pocket.

Leads to a question that may have been asked - Do you consider Scientology a religion? .

I do. Most scholars of new religious movements that I’m aware of do so as well. So do most governments.

That having been said, it’s a religion that’s missing an awful lot of the things that we normally associate with religion. It has no real concept of God other than the fact that some kind of God exists. It has no moral principles beyond a very few basics. It has only two rituals. It has no prayer and no worship.

 

[ffg]

Interesting.

No prayer, or worship, but lots of offerings.

Did someone already ask about your history and what religions you were (or not) and what brought you to Scientology?

Is there a point in time when you were asked to start to give regularly, or do you only pay when services are rendered / when you choose?

The reason I keep hitting on this point more than others is that I have a big pet peeve of money requirements for what people would consider learning about let’s say divine.

There is a big mega Church close to here that requires x% direct deposit. The pastor lives in a mansion, while his flock suffer with the daily grind.

It hurts me to see this.

One might say the CC has it’s own country in the Vatican, which is true, but over 2000+ years of volunteer giving and good investing, it can add up.

There is no requirement of funding to know everything the church teaches. Save, I guess, for the cost of a book, but with the internet, it’s free!

 

[BeProfOSX]

Did someone already ask about your history and what religions you were (or not) and what brought you to Scientology?

Well… in my particular case, I was in a “seeking” phase in my life that brought me through Scientology to Freezone Scientology to general occultism to Satanism to Atheism. The interesting thing was that I was “saved” (to use the evangelical parlance) before that. I do still consider that earlier conversion to be valid, but I was definitely in a protracted period of rebellion against God. I eventually came back around due to the influence and long-suffering prayers of a Godly wife, but that’s a story for another time.

Is there a point in time when you were asked to start to give regularly, or do you only pay when services are rendered / when you choose?

Oh, no no no. I mentioned it earlier but the entire extent of my formal Scientology training consisted of Introductory Services. I took the Hubbard Dianetics Auditor Course (i.e. “Book One” auditing, not Scientology Auditing) and I did some of the Life Repair Courses. I never made it onto the Bridge on either the Training or Processing sides.

My knowledge of what goes on in Scientology is based on years and years of study of their materials and conversations I’ve had with ex-Scientologists.

There is a big mega Church close to here that requires x% direct deposit. The pastor lives in a mansion, while his flock suffer with the daily grind.

For the record, I think that’s heinous. I may be evangelical but I have a real problem with the free-church “non-denominational” segments of evangelicalism because of exactly this sort of thing. I think that this is exactly the kind of thing that Jesus was talking about when He was talking about it being better to have a millstone fastened around your neck and get chucked into the sea than it is is lead even one of His little ones astray.

May God have mercy on their souls and may the Holy Spirit get through to them somehow before it’s too late for them and for those who follow them.