Ask A Scientologist.

[LivingWaters7]

How do Scientologists argue that Scientology is true?

As already mentioned, Scientology is practical. They argue that it’s “true” because it “works” (not saying that it actually does). Many Scientologists will say that while Scientology may not be the best thing ever, it works, and that’s what matters. They believe it’s a very scientific, precise religion (envisioning it in as being similar to engineering, physics, etc), where you follow the instructions, do what L Ron Hubbard said, exactly, and Scientology will work. Each course and service has an “end phenomena” that must be reached before it’s completed. If you aren’t getting the end phenomena, the result that’s supposed to happen, it’s your fault, not Scientology’s. Scientology is never wrong, and always will work if you follow it exactly. That’s how they think.

So then how do they get from “This stuff is actually helpful” to “Xenu was real”?

It is a very progressive religion. You won’t hear about past lives, body thetans, Xenu, etc at the very beginning. As I mentioned in another post, the beginning stuff is pretty helpful, and enjoyable. Slowly, they add more and more, as you go up the Bridge. You won’t be asked to join staff when you first arrive. You get a 6 month free International Association of Scientologists membership at the beginning. Then, as they see you’re coming consistently, you believe it “works”, the courses, services, books, etc will add more and more “interesting” things. Just look at the books. Dianetics, Scientology: Fundamentals of Thought, etc are pretty tame. Then you get into Scientology: A History of Man, among other books, and it just gets weird (and just like Scientology in general, you’re asked to read the books in order, otherwise they won’t make sense).

So, I think that by the time someone gets to Xenu, which takes quite some time, they’ve already invested a ton of time and money into Scientology, and by then, many probably aren’t bothered by it, since they’ve been sufficiently invested.

 

[LivingWaters7]

And speaking of the Purification Rundown, here’s an email I got from the Org today, hahaha.

 

[LivingWaters7]

And here’s another I got recently with an example of a “success story” (whoever said that you never get off the mailing list is right!).

 

[TheConservative]

I purchased a few books and I have enjoyed them for what they were. During “The Problems of Work” I felt halfway through that Hubbard was just typing away with no clear goal in sight.

Is this his writing style, or is it just this one book?

 

[BeProfOSX]

I purchased a few books and I have enjoyed them for what they were. During “The Problems of Work” I felt halfway through that Hubbard was just typing away with no clear goal in sight.

Is this his writing style, or is it just this one book?

I try to be charitable, so… let’s just call it “rambling.”

And yes… he does that in every book.

 

[Monkey1976]

I purchased a few books and I have enjoyed them for what they were. During “The Problems of Work” I felt halfway through that Hubbard was just typing away with no clear goal in sight.

Is this his writing style, or is it just this one book?

That’s his writing style. His (intended) fiction is even worse.

 

[JustaServant]

I’ve seen these threads here and I’ve done a version of this thread on other boards, so I thought I’d do it here.

In the interest of full disclosure. I do not currently, nor have I ever, considered myself to actually be a Scientologist, although the Church of Scientology would consider me one by virtue of the fact that I have taken and completed a course under the auspices of the Church of Scientology. I made the mistake of once buying a copy of Dianetics and taking a correspondence Dianetic auditing from the official Church of Scientology sources and… well… trust me on this one… that’s not a mailing list you want to get yourself on.

Regardless, I do have at least a little first hand familiarity with the subject. I have nearly complete copies of all publicly available Scientology scripture (and that’s a lot) and I even have copies of some of the confidential materials that I believe to be accurate by virtue of the fact that they have been authenticated by former Scientologists to be complete and accurate representations of what they saw when doing the confidential courses.

I will leave it up to the mods to determine whether or not we should talk about those confidential materials. Scientology is notoriously litigious and talking publicly about those materials may gain us attention that we don’t want.

With that in mind, ask away.

Do Scientologists really reject all medications of any kind? What are the people, who suffer from mental illness to do?

 

[BeProfOSX]

Do Scientologists really reject all medications of any kind?

No. You’re thinking Christian Scientists, who are completely unrelated.

That having been said, Scientologists are supposed to refrain completely from doing anything other than Scientology during any period of time where they are receiving Auditing or are receiving training to be an Auditor.

This means no over the counter drugs of any kind. Not even asprin. Caffeine and nicotine are fine. Alcohol is ok, but only on the weekends (if you’re on the day training schedule.) You aren’t to go to a doctor, chiropractor, or dentist. If you still consider yourself a Christian, a Muslim, a Jew (of a member of any other religion), you are not to pray, go to church, read your Bible or otherwise engage in “other practices” in any way. Exemptions for some medical treatment (including medications) are possible but they have authorized by the Director of Processing or the Course Supervisor, I believe.

There are a whole host of other requirements as well that all basically sum up to: You can’t be PTS (Potential Trouble Source, someone who may be connected to a Suppressive Person) and you need to be free of all PTPs (Present Time Problems.)

Scientology, also, has a strict “no-psych” rule. You don’t go to a psychiatrist or psychologist ever for any reason and you certainly don’t take any psychiatric medications.

What are the people, who suffer from mental illness to do?

It’s interesting that you mention that. One of the real, iron-clad rules in Scientology is the policy on Illegal PCs. Specifically, if you are psychotic, schizophrenic, have ever received psychiatric surgery or electro-convulsive therapy, or have ever been hospitalized for any mental health reason (either voluntarily or involuntarily) you may never receive any Scientology Auditing beyond the Introductory Services. You may train as an Auditor and co-audit, but you can’t purchase Auditing from the Church itself. Any member of the Church who violates this policy or knowingly allows anyone else to violate this policy is guilty of a High Crime and, as such, can expect, to face severe punishment up to an including having themselves declared to be a Suppressive Person.

They don’t talk about it but their advice, basically, would be to wait until you die and reincarnate and then get your Auditing. Indeed, there are a few bone-chilling statements made by Hubbard wherein he at least implied that the kindest thing that we can do for those who are too severely handicapped or ill (mentally or otherwise) to receive Auditing is to simply put them out of their misery.

 

[Boulder257]

It’s interesting that you mention that. One of the real, iron-clad rules in Scientology is the policy on Illegal PCs. Specifically, if you are psychotic, schizophrenic, have ever received psychiatric surgery or electro-convulsive therapy, or have ever been hospitalized for any mental health reason (either voluntarily or involuntarily) you may never receive any Scientology Auditing beyond the Introductory Services. You may train as an Auditor and co-audit, but you can’t purchase Auditing from the Church itself. Any member of the Church who violates this policy or knowingly allows anyone else to violate this policy is guilty of a High Crime and, as such, can expect, to face severe punishment up to an including having themselves declared to be a Suppressive Person.

They don’t talk about it but their advice, basically, would be to wait until you die and reincarnate and then get your Auditing. Indeed, there are a few bone-chilling statements made by Hubbard wherein he at least implied that the kindest thing that we can do for those who are too severely handicapped or ill (mentally or otherwise) to receive Auditing is to simply put them out of their misery.

Sweet. Good to know they will leave me alone

 

[Monkey1976]

Do Scientologists really reject all medications of any kind? What are the people, who suffer from mental illness to do?

This.

 

[aychihuahua]

Thank you for the Jeremy Perkins link. I have skimmed through this thread and think I should jump in here. Unlike OP and LivingWaters, I was involved with Church of Scientology for six years, in person, “on course,” Monday through Friday, 7 to 10 pm, five days a week. This was during the 1970’s when the Scientology “Bridge” was arranged differently than it is now, and when it was a lot more difficult to find out the truth about this very dangerous cult. Those interested in knowing more about Scientology ought to check out Ex Scientologist Message Board or Operation Clambake, two websites full of accurate information mostly from folks who were “in” for years and years, but who are now out.
Check out also the recent articles about the defection of Leah Remini–Tony Ortega is doing great work via his blog on this topic–just google his name. Another sad but true story is that of Alexander Jentzsch whose unnecessary death at 27 just a year ago can be chalked up to Church of Scientology policies. He was “disconnected” from his mother, Karen De La Carriere, due to her departure from the church, and she was not allowed to view the body of her only child prior to the hastily arranged cremation ordered by church handlers. These stories are just a couple of scores, perhaps hundreds that could be told on the topic of disconnection alone.
I have tried to put most of Scientology, my memories of it, the ridiculous, useless “tech” etc. out of my mind, but those who’d like to ask questions of someone who spent a great deal of time involved may pose them and I’ll try to answer. That said, I hate to see Scientology white-washed and/or legitimized. It is dangerous; it is a lie; many people, known personally to me, have lost family members, all their money and years of their lives to the deception that is Scientology.
P.S. Any formulation of “What’s true for you” is just PR. Just try to get by with not accepting any little “datum” of Dianetics/Scientology in the course-room by citing that and you’d find your self making clay demos until it became “true for you.” And that is a fact.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Thank you for the Jeremy Perkins link. I have skimmed through this thread and think I should jump in here. Unlike OP and LivingWaters, I was involved with Church of Scientology for six years, in person, “on course,” Monday through Friday, 7 to 10 pm, five days a week. This was during the 1970’s when the Scientology “Bridge” was arranged differently than it is now, and when it was a lot more difficult to find out the truth about this very dangerous cult. Those interested in knowing more about Scientology ought to check out Ex Scientologist Message Board or Operation Clambake, two websites full of accurate information mostly from folks who were “in” for years and years, but who are now out.
Check out also the recent articles about the defection of Leah Remini–Tony Ortega is doing great work via his blog on this topic–just google his name. Another sad but true story is that of Alexander Jentzsch whose unnecessary death at 27 just a year ago can be chalked up to Church of Scientology policies. He was “disconnected” from his mother, Karen De La Carriere, due to her departure from the church, and she was not allowed to view the body of her only child prior to the hastily arranged cremation ordered by church handlers. These stories are just a couple of scores, perhaps hundreds that could be told on the topic of disconnection alone.
I have tried to put most of Scientology, my memories of it, the ridiculous, useless “tech” etc. out of my mind, but those who’d like to ask questions of someone who spent a great deal of time involved may pose them and I’ll try to answer. That said, I hate to see Scientology white-washed and/or legitimized. It is dangerous; it is a lie; many people, known personally to me, have lost family members, all their money and years of their lives to the deception that is Scientology.
P.S. Any formulation of “What’s true for you” is just PR. Just try to get by with not accepting any little “datum” of Dianetics/Scientology in the course-room by citing that and you’d find your self making clay demos until it became “true for you.” And that is a fact.

Thanks for sharing! And I agree, Scientology is very dangerous and deceptive. I’m grateful I didn’t stay long enough to fully experience what others have, though I experienced enough to know that what ex-Scientologists that were in for years say is true (I also participate at Ex Scientologists Message Board).

What was it like to be involved in Scientology at that time? How far up the Bridge did you get? Although I didn’t get to start the Purifcation Rundown, and was “in” for a comparatively short time, I was “on course” at the Org about 3-5 hours a day (more when I was auditing Life Repair) for 4 days a week, which was WAY too much when you also had to factor in work and school. And of course they wanted me there for more hours, as I’m sure you could also attest to (it’s never enough unless you’re there all day everyday).

Oh and yes, “what’s true for you” is really what L Ron Hubbard tells you is true. If you don’t understand what LRH is telling you, or don’t agree with it, and express that, I’m sure you’ll be re-reading until you find your “misunderstood word” for quite some time!

 

[aychihuahua]

Hello, LW, and I’d like to say how happy I am to see that you’re home in the Catholic Church.
In the 1970’s, when I was in, I’d say that for most people the experience was more relaxed than it is currently, from what I’ve read. Scientology was more popular then; my mission was located in a city with a world-class university, and it bustled with activity during the evenings. As I pointed out in my prior post, it wasn’t easy to find out much about the cult factor. At the mission level, it was possible to have a lot of fun–at first.
It was still expensive, once the Communications Course was out of the way, but there was no pressure to donate anything; per LRH, that would have been “out exchange.” I think the IAS existed, but it was strictly voluntary and involved, I think, some small fee for which there was also some kind of benefit. I never joined.
And, of course “Source,” as we were encouraged to call him, was still living and “on lines.” We were told that his “Standing Order # 1” was really in effect and that anyone could write to LRH and receive a reply. Yes, just like your heavenly father, he was always on duty, and perhaps omniscient as well. We kept an office for him, ready to go with a package of unfiltered “Kool” cigarettes on the desk.
As for the fees, one paid only for services, and my recollection was that for most of us it was pay as you go. I don’t remember anyone having large amounts of money on account for future services, but it could have been true for some folks at the Org level.
Pressure to join staff was constant, and I was personally chewed out more than once for my refusal to do so. Naturally, it made staff angry to receive a “no” since departing staff or promoted staff had to find their own replacement. Sea Org missions to recruit were pretty common, and to my great regret, a dear friend whom I introduced to Scientology, joined and in still in…a big time kool-aider well-known to churchies and critics alike. She is continually in my prayers for deliverance.
One of the most off-putting things that I remember were standing ovations offered to a larger-than-life portrait of Hubbard. This generally happened at the end of course time in the evening at “muster.” People would report their “wins” and the course supervisor might ask us all to “validate Ron,” causing the entire group to turn and face the picture and applaud. I could never scrape up any enthusiasm for this; it reminded me of 1984.
The totalitarian undertone was present, but muted. Knowledge Reports abounded though, and I experienced being called into ethics after one was written about me because I’d said I was thinking about going back to school and would need to stop giving every evening to the mission. Suppressive declares were not all that common, but did happen. Our mission holder was dismissed and declared, and Reed Slatkin took over temporarily. He was a very personable man, by the way, and I am sorry to see what happened to him, and I do believe the cult mindset contributed to his downfall.
The Purification Rundown was only for those with a background of illegal drug use back then, so I did not do it, but many did. I think it was much shorter time-wise then as well. The course line-up was Communication Course, Student Hat, and Hubbard Qualified Scientologist. The Comm Course took most people about 3 weeks, cost about $30, and “blinkless TR0” was not yet part of it. Student Hat was more relaxed also, from what I can tell by current critiques, and HQS included thorough auditor training, upper level TRs and the upper indocs, the famous routine that involves ordering ashtrays about. The various “assists” were also part of what one learned in HQS. I did all of those, plus an ethics course and was on Pro TRs when I left. I had Life Repair and another action I can’t remember the name of. I think Life Repair was different then in terms of how it was delivered. I think it was sold as a single action, rather than in “intensives” It cost $2,500–a lot of money in 1975.
I wish that I had never involved myself in this cult, mostly because of the terrible harm to the friend who followed me in and I wish I had not thrown that money away or allowed myself to be controlled. I left university in my junior year, second semester, to pursue Scientology and never returned after I joined the cult. I had been attending on a full scholarship; my immaturity and ingratitude makes me blush to this day. I am so glad it is now being exposed for what it is, a totalist mind control cult intended to enrich a few at the expense of many. I hope this answers your general question about what it was like back in the day.

 

[TheConservative]

How would one practice Scientology without a local Org? I understand you could travel for classes and what not, but just staying at home what is available?

 

[BeProfOSX]

How would one practice Scientology without a local Org? I understand you could travel for classes and what not, but just staying at home what is available?

There are a couple of options:

1 - You can take various extension courses through your closest church or right from the main church website. A good portion of the introductory courses are available this way.

2 - Even if a full fledged Class V Org isn’t available, there may be a mission closer by. There really isn’t much, in terms of processing, that a Mission can’t deliver that a regular church of Scientology can. In terms of training, however, there is a big difference. Missions can basically only deliver the introductory courses. Actual Scientology Auditor training has to happen at an Academy of Scientology, which is only housed inside Class V Orgs and above.

3 - A lot of cities that don’t have missions or churches also have Field Auditors operating “private practices.” Still requires the occasional visit to a church or mission and offers no cost savings, but if you’re really out in the boonies, it may be your only option.

That all having been said, if you’re interested in just “trying it out” or doing research, I would strongly recommend against going with any official Church of Scientology orgs. Once they get you, they don’t let go of you. You will be pressured to purchase services that you can’t afford using loans that you really can’t afford right from the get go. I wouldn’t even buy the books right from the Church. Buy them used or new at a local bookstore, if you can find them. If you want to experience auditing first hand, then buy a copy of Dianetics used on the internet, read it, and then do it with a friend. Do not reach out to the main church until you are absolutely certain that this is what you want to do (and if it is, what’s wrong with you? Seriously… just don’t…)