Ask a Unitarian Universalist

[Boulder257]

We can agree to disagree, and to agree, and to keep talking, and to learn, and to grow, and to respect, and to do all this together. That’s our unity. And its the merger that is 50 years old. The predecessor denominations were formed in 1825 (American Universalist Association) and 1778 (Universalist Church of America).

Granted, that’s not 2000 years, but still very respectable.

I didn’t realize it was established so long ago.

Question for you: What are the requirements to become a minister? Is that the person’s full time job, or is it a secondary vocation?

 

[NowHereThis]

I didn’t realize it was established so long ago.

Question for you: What are the requirements to become a minister? Is that the person’s full time job, or is it a secondary vocation?

It’s full time. They need a M.Div. from an approved school, sponsorship by a UUA-affiliated congregation, at least two years of involvement with a congregation, an internship, completion of a pastoral education program, completion of a required reading list, do a career assessment, have a criminal background check…and that’s just to be approved as a minister by the UUA.

For more info:
uua.org/careers/ministers/becoming/index.shtml

That doesn’t actually get you a congregation. Each congregation calls its own minister, so ministers have to go through a process with congregations in need of a minister before they are hired.

 

[NowHereThis]

We can agree to disagree, and to agree, and to keep talking, and to learn, and to grow, and to respect, and to do all this together. That’s our unity. And its the merger that is 50 years old. The predecessor denominations were formed in 1825 (American Universalist Association) and 1778 (Universalist Church of America).

Granted, that’s not 2000 years, but still very respectable.

That should be “American Unitarian Association”.

 

[ffg]

Way to navigate the touchy subjects with poise. Though I would reject your reasoning as illogical through similar examples already given.

To have a foundation from which to work is important.

You have a house of cards sitting on a three legged square table if you start weighing rights based on observational truth (because your eyes are open).

Not seeing a subject, vs seeing a subject doesn’t change what is true to both subjects.

 

[Boulder257]

It’s full time. They need a M.Div. from an approved school, sponsorship by a UUA-affiliated congregation, at least two years of involvement with a congregation, an internship, completion of a pastoral education program, completion of a required reading list, do a career assessment, have a criminal background check…and that’s just to be approved as a minister by the UUA.

For more info:
uua.org/careers/ministers/becoming/index.shtml

That doesn’t actually get you a congregation. Each congregation calls its own minister, so ministers have to go through a process with congregations in need of a minister before they are hired.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question. I appreciate it.

 

[vsedriver]

At viability. Donated organs have distinct human DNA, but that doesn’t confer personhood on them.

 

[KingJohn]

What in blazes compells you to be apart of a Religion that’s half and half?

Why don’t you believe in Heaven and Hell? Do bad people just…Stay in the grave?

Why do you do rituals if you don’t believe in some sort of supernatural authority?

 

[CR89er]

Years ago I did enjoy antagonizing and agitating. But I learned and grew, and that’s what I’m doing here and elsewhere: learning and growing through dialogue with people of a variety of beliefs.

You belong to a cult (yes, a cult) that denies the divinity of Jesus Christ. We Catholics will pray for you that you may one day learn and grow enough to come to the fullness of Truth which is the Catholic Church. Peace be with you.

 

[andrewstx]

What we hold in common are values, not metaphysical statements. I’m not an atheist, but an atheist and I can agree that human beings should be treated as having inherent worth and dignity. UUs agree on seven common values:

• The inherent worth and dignity of every person;
• Justice, equity and compassion in human relations;
• Acceptance of one another and encouragement to spiritual growth in our congregations;
• A free and responsible search for truth and meaning;
• The right of conscience and the use of the democratic process within our congregations and in society at large;
• The goal of world community with peace, liberty, and justice for all;
• Respect for the interdependent web of all existence of which we are a part.

As individual members, we can and do hold metaphysical statements as true, but we don’t have to agree about them in order to be a community. To borrow from another UU, there are Republican Catholics and Democratic Catholics, but nobody thinks of the Catholic church as “the church that doesn’t vote for anything”.

I agree with every one of those values completely. But I am not a UU. But I did go to meetings at a UU congregation briefly.

My problem was that I was going to a “religionless” church. Not a prayer was said at all, the only thing that resembled a religious rite was when the chalice was lighted at the beginning. The talks at this fellowship were about things like memes and other intellectual ideas, but never about religion. It was all over my head.

It was like a debateing society on ethics, but sorely lacking when it came to religion. I just needed much more than they gave.

 

[NowHereThis]

Way to navigate the touchy subjects with poise. Though I would reject your reasoning as illogical through similar examples already given.

Thanks! I am neither surprised nor offended that you haven’t found what I’ve said to be persuasive.

To have a foundation from which to work is important.

You have a house of cards sitting on a three legged square table if you start weighing rights based on observational truth (because your eyes are open).

Not seeing a subject, vs seeing a subject doesn’t change what is true to both subjects.

Could you explain this further? Does “observational truth” have any relationship to Natural Law? What or who are these subjects you mention?

I read you as saying that “because we have special divinely guaranteed revelation, we can be certain that personhood begins at conception, whether it looks that way or not”. How close is that to what you meant to say?

 

[benjohnson]

NowHereThis - thanks for answering questions with aplomb!

I have to admit that the premise of “A Unitarian Universalist walk into a Catholic discussion group” would be a good beginning to a joke somehow…

When I was in my larval agnostic stage of life, I was always puzzled by the Unitarians as it seemed to me that no ‘structure’ would be needed. Could you describe any spiritual or intellectual growth you’ve had that would not have occurred had you remained a solitary individual outside the UU ‘church’?

 

[NowHereThis]

NowHereThis;10939487:

never said it did. Donated organs have the DNA of the PERSON they came from. We agree, an organ is not a PERSON.

The difference between a donated organ and an embryo is that a donated organ is not a human life and and embryo is a human life.

There is no such thing as ‘potential’ child. There are only stages of development in a human life.

viability is simply part of the growth stage of a human being. Viability has no impact on whether something is a human life or not.

then what is late term abortion?

First, you said that the difference between a donated organ and embryo is that embryos are “a human life” and that donated organs are not. But what makes something “a human life”?

Second, you asked “what is later term abortion”? Well, it’s a lot of things:

1. It’s a procedure that can already be outlawed under Roe v. Wade if there are exceptions for performing it to save the life and health of the mother.
2. It’s a procedure that is usually done to save the life and/or health of the mother, because the pregnancy has gone very, very wrong.
3. It’s a situation that could be avoided in all other cases if women had easy access to abortion earlier.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

“Universalism” is in our name because Unitarian Universalism was formed in 1961 by the merger of two denominations: The American Unitarian Association and the Universalist Church of America. Even though UU isn’t a Christian denomination anymore, those two denominations were at one point. Universalists are Christians who believe that everyone will be saved.​

People who disagree with one or more of the seven principles can still join, it’s just that the more principles they disagree with, the more uncomfortable they will probably be.​

The values of the seven principles reflect two central paradoxes of being human: we’re individuals who need community to flourish, and we’re alive and aware of having to die. Because we have a limited amount of time to live, that raises the question of how best to make use of the time we do have. Because we need each other, that raises the question of how we can live together without dishonoring our existence as individuals.

The seven principles are an attempt to answer these questions and reflect these realities. They were voted on. They can be voted on again to revise them, if we choose.​

So what can an atheist and I do together? Well, as that great theologian Prince once declared, “Ladies and gentlemen, we are gathered together to get through this thing called life.”

I’m fully aware that the UU are not Christians but that doesn’t dim my criticism of them. No actual Christian would be a part of such a group, no Christian with an actual grasp on actual Christian theology anyway.

In so far as the principles are concerned, if they are not binding you have a problem. Morality and such principles are entirely subjective, you cannot object to the person who thinks it okay to rape, or does evil actions proudly. There is a universalism but at what cost? A denial of basic good and evil, everything is permitted and everything is expedient and in order to be “unified” you will sacrifice what is good on the altar of pluralism.

I’m also not convinced that your UU is not anything more but a glorified social club, get together and do something which a flower right? Read some texts that contradict and what is accomplished? Then talk and eat? You could do that local town club, except they gather for a specific purpose and point.

 

[Major_Tom]

I didn’t realize it was established so long ago.

You’re right, by the calendar, it’s very young. However, some of the key roots have been around much longer. Michael Servetus, a fiery anti-trinitarian, was burned by John Calvin in the Reformation period. One example of some of the underpinnings of human reason and questioning establishment thinking. And of course, the exploration/questioning of the trinity goes way back to the first centuries after Jesus. In America, the Unitarians were an offshoot of our early northern Congregationalist churches; the conservative portions of the congregation staying put, the more liberal portions of the congregations veering off to found Unitarianism. John Adams was a Unitarian, Thomas Jefferson shared many of the principles as well….

… thanks for your interest and (name removed by moderator)ut, Boulder.

 

[Major_Tom]

I’m fully aware that the UU are not Christians but that doesn’t dim my criticism of them. No actual Christian would be a part of such a group, no Christian with an actual grasp on actual Christian theology anyway.

In so far as the principles are concerned, if they are not binding you have a problem. Morality and such principles are entirely subjective, you cannot object to the person who thinks it okay to rape, or does evil actions proudly. There is a universalism but at what cost? A denial of basic good and evil, everything is permitted and everything is expedient and in order to be “unified” you will sacrifice what is good on the altar of pluralism.

I’m also not convinced that your UU is not anything more but a glorified social club, get together and do something which a flower right? Read some texts that contradict and what is accomplished? Then talk and eat? You could do that local town club, except they gather for a specific purpose and point.

I think this is the most common misperception that I’ve run into. “You people don’t believe anything…!”. Sure we do, it’s right there in the principles posted earlier. In your example (violence, rape), that fundamentally opposes our covenant “to affirm and promote the inherent worth and dignity of every person”.

A denial of basic good and evil, everything is permitted …

Again, for emphasis, no, not everything is permitted. As noted earlier, there is not much hierarchy here in unitarianism. We do a lot more policing of ourselves. I think this unnerves a lot of people. “But who’s gonna, you know, tell you what you’re doing wrong?” Ultimately, you are the one responsible for your actions. Not your parish priest, not the Pope, you make the final call as to what is right, what is wrong, and what your course of action is.

 

[Major_Tom]

I’m also not convinced that your UU is not anything more but a glorified social club, get together and do something which a flower right? Read some texts that contradict and what is accomplished? Then talk and eat? You could do that local town club, except they gather for a specific purpose and point.

We do have “specifics”, as well, for what it’s worth! Social activism is a major underpinning of many of our activities. In lieu of investing a lot of time in discussions of heaven/hell, we like to invest a lot of time trying to make this place ‘heaven’.

 

[Major_Tom]

You belong to a cult (yes, a cult) that denies the divinity of Jesus Christ. We Catholics will pray for you that you may one day learn and grow enough to come to the fullness of Truth which is the Catholic Church. Peace be with you.

Respectfully, and at great risk of sidetracking the conversation, unitarianism is by no means a cult. No objective measure of ‘cults’ would apply here.

Thank you for your prayers! Please know that I’ll add you (and all my Catholic in-laws, sister, and neighbors) to my prayers tonight as well. May our human reason and thirst for knowledge bring us to a better understanding of the world around us. (…I hope that was good, I’m not big on serious-sounding prayers…)

 

[vsedriver]

But what makes something “a human life”?

 

[NowHereThis]

What in blazes compells you to be apart of a Religion that’s half and half?

Why don’t you believe in Heaven and Hell? Do bad people just…Stay in the grave?

Why do you do rituals if you don’t believe in some sort of supernatural authority?

1. I’m confused. Half and half of what?
2. UUs tend to focus more on this world rather than speculating about the afterlife because the afterlife often viewed as inherently unknowable. Personally, I’m interested in the prospect of parallel universes and lives all happening at once, rather than one life followed by another.
3. Rituals are an expression of who we are as a community, whether we believe in the supernatural or not.

 

[NowHereThis]

Respectfully, and at great risk of sidetracking the conversation, unitarianism is by no means a cult. No objective measure of ‘cults’ would apply here.

Thank you for your prayers! Please know that I’ll add you (and all my Catholic in-laws, sister, and neighbors) to my prayers tonight as well. May our human reason and thirst for knowledge bring us to a better understanding of the world around us. (…I hope that was good, I’m not big on serious-sounding prayers…)