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tomarin
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Yes.
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Major_Tom
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I’ll bite. What’s the core purpose of a church? A church. Not necessarily your church.
Has objective truth revealed to you whether the earth was created in six days, or took a longer period of time? Do you have a personal opinion on that?
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Lochias
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Jesus also said “Those who have seen me, have seen the Father.”
You can’t just cherry-pick verses to try and support your claim.
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Tomdstone
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Why cannot someone cherry pick these verses? Is it because you cannot explain them?
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Lochias
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I can’t speak for other churches. The Catholic Church’s history and mission is defined here, in the Catechism.
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p1.htm
I follow the Church’s teaching on the creation of the world, which is unconcerned with the exact mechanism and period of time it took; the point of Genesis is to highlight theological truths about God and His relationship with us, not point out the exact way the world was created. See here:
catholic.com/tracts/creation-and-genesis
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Lochias
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No, it’s because they don’t work in isolation, and were never meant to. I just proved that to you.
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Major_Tom
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The Church is unconcerned. Cool. Do you have an opinion on it? Not trying to trap you…
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Lochias
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I don’t think the world was created in six literal days, based on what science tells us about the earth. We do know that time in the way we perceive it is nothing to God, so a “day” in the context used by Genesis probably just denotes a period in time.
What do you think?
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SteveVH
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Jesus was speaking in the context of his humanity, and in his humanity he did not know everything. He “grew in wisdom and stature”. His divinity was hidden in his humanity. He also did not know that Peter was to be chosen as the leader of the Church. This also was revealed by the Father. The day and the hour had not been revealed to him by the Father.
Here is the official Catholic explanation from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
*"This human soul that the Son of God assumed is endowed with a true human knowledge. As such, this knowledge could not in itself be unlimited: it was exercised in the historical conditions of his existence in space and time. This is why the Son of God could, when he became man, “increase in wisdom and in stature, and in favour with God and man”,101 and would even have to inquire for himself about what one in the human condition can learn only from experience.102 This corresponded to the reality of his voluntary emptying of himself, taking “the form of a slave”.103
473 But at the same time, this truly human knowledge of God’s Son expressed the divine life of his person.104 "The human nature of God’s Son, not by itself but by its union with the Word, knew and showed forth in itself everything that pertains to God."105 Such is first of all the case with the intimate and immediate knowledge that the Son of God made man has of his Father.106 The Son in his human knowledge also showed the divine penetration he had into the secret thoughts of human hearts.107
474 By its union to the divine wisdom in the person of the Word incarnate, Christ enjoyed in his human knowledge the fullness of understanding of the eternal plans he had come to reveal.108 What he admitted to not knowing in this area, he elsewhere declared himself not sent to reveal.109*
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Tomdstone
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Your proof must be in error, because the Jews do not accept your proof and they are pretty smart people as is seem from the disproportionate number of Nobel prizes they have won and the disproportionate number of Jews in the professional jobs such as lawyers, doctors, bankers, journalists, Supreme Court justices, etc.
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Tomdstone
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How is it possible for God to have limited knowledge? God is supposed to be unlimited. Also, God is not supposed to change. But at one point in time God had unlimited knowledge. Then later on, 2000 years ago, he changed because according to you he then had limited human knowledge which he did not have before. How is this possible if God does not change?
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CHRISTINE77
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What sort of Hymns do they sing?Mek42, thank you for a question that is actually germane to the thread.
That said, it’s one I can’t really answer, haha. I was not brought up in any religion; when I attended my first UU service at the age of 32, I had only been to one church service in my life that wasn’t part of a wedding or a funeral. I have no basis of comparison as to what “high church” entails. Each UU congregation has a different order of service, but I would say most, if not all, include lighting the chalice, singing hymns, a sermon of sorts, an offering, etc. Most have pretty amazing choirs that will sing 1-2 songs during the service sometimes. We do have a ritual that we follow, but nothing is set in stone for any congregation.
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LisaA
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FWIW I think of a quote by a Priest regarding literal interpretation of Biblical writings “The Bible is true and some of it actually happened…” I really have never met a Catholic who held a totally literal interpretation of the Bible. Even in the Evangelical tradition which seems to be more accepting of literal interpretation, it is believed that much is allegory. Now some of the events did occur and recent excavations have found a number of structures consistent with Old Testament stories.
So I think asking someone if they have an opinion about the creation of the world, is sort of a trick question. Our opinions are just that, opinions. If we look to the Catechism for answers we can see a carefully built argument, based on objective truth, biology and Natural Law as well as theological interpretation. This is where I think the Church has far more credibility than subsequent faith traditions which were based on individual opinions and interpretations. While the secular press is cheering what they see are changes in the Church’s stance on issues such as homosexuality, in truth nothing has changed. The Church’s stance on homosexuality for example is based on a consistent interpretation of Natural Law and biology.
Where I lost respect for the Episcopal and Methodist churches was the vacillating on various subjects, voting policy in and out depending on who attended Conference that year. During my tenure with the Methodist church I saw four different policies with respect to homosexual ministers, None of the changes were compelled by facts but by various factions gaining or losing power.
As to the UU’s, the principles seem to be similar in that they are somewhat nebulous and subject to wide interpretation. It’s just a little too airy fairy for me to accept that anyone can say what is or is not acceptable.
The worth and dignity of every person? What about unborn babies? I realize you think I’m a one trick pony but understand that the primary focus on a consistent life ethic has to have a point where one can determine objectively that we are talking about a person. The ONLY objective beginning is conception. Yet this is rejected by UUs and many other mainline Protestant faiths.
It just seems well intentioned but lacking in substance and basis in objective truth.
Lisa
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ProudUU
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We have our own hymnals - Singing the Living Tradition and Singing the Journey.
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CHRISTINE77
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Besides supporting liberal political causes such as gay rights and abortion, what other liberal political causes does your church advocate? How does your church stand on immigartion rights?
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CHRISTINE77
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Most hymns I know are about Jesus. What are yours about?
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ProudUU
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They are about love, the earth, community, friendship, fellowship, the spirit of life (we actually have a hymn called “Spirit of Life”), family, etc.
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ProudUU
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We adopted a formal Statement of Conscience at our 2013 General Assembly regarding Immigration as a Moral Issue, which can be found here: uua.org/statements/statements/288860.shtml
As to other liberal political causes, yes, UUs tend to be very politically liberal, working toward economic and social justice (though that is describing it in very general terms).
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CHRISTINE77
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Usually hymns are songs in praise of God.
Definition: “A hymn is a type of song, usually religious, specifically written for the purpose of praise, adoration or prayer, and typically addressed to a deity or deities, or to a prominent figure or personification. The word hymn derives from Greek ὕμνος (hymnos), which means “a song of praise”.”
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ProudUU
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Typically addressed to a deity or deities. Not always. And usually religious. Not always. But ours are definitely songs of praise. So yes, they’re hymns.
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