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CHRISTINE77
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Do Unitarians read the Bible?
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ProudUU
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Generally, no, though I’m sure some do. UUs don’t tend to think of it as a sacred text, though. Our ministers are well-versed in it, as they are in the texts of many religions, and readings from it are sometimes brought up in services. However, our ministers are just as likely to quote from other texts (sacred and secular) as they are from the bible.
Edited to add: I’ll assume by “Unitarians” you mean “UUs”.
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LisaA
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I think we can disavow ourselves of the illusion UU is Christian in nature, background or teaching even though my understanding is that it evolved from a liberal Christian tradition (Congregationalist?). However my experience was that there was no talk of God, certainly nothing about Jesus except as a historical figure who was a ‘great rabbi.’ I remember during the Christmas season that we heard about Buddhists, Native Americans, Wiccans and some other nature worship. Not a passing phrase on “the reason for the season.” No singing Silent Night or even something more secular like Jingle Bells. I felt this was frankly based on snobbery and a basic anti-Christianity bias with in the UU tradition. “We don’t want to be like those other guys…” My thought is that whether or not you believe Jesus was the Son of God, the reality is that the Christian tradition, the impact of Christianity, the positive social and charitable force of Christianity is as worthy of a mention as Wicca or Buddhism.Generally, no, though I’m sure some do. UUs don’t tend to think of it as a sacred text, though. Our ministers are well-versed in it, as they are in the texts of many religions, and readings from it are sometimes brought up in services. However, our ministers are just as likely to quote from other texts (sacred and secular) as they are from the bible.
Edited to add: I’ll assume by “Unitarians” you mean “UUs”.
The question I have is whether UU is a church because (as noted early in the thread) if you look at the tests used by the IRS to define “church” for its purposes, UU sounds much more like a social action group than a church. Some of the buildings, particularly the older structures LOOK very church like with steeples and pews. But very little “churchy” stuff going on inside. It’s a ritual but in my opinion not a religious ritual.
Lisa
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cheese_sdc
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Y’all want to know what the essence of UU is? This is what happened in my church, the Unitarian Church of Baton Rouge a few years ago:
Our church is actually split between “Pro-lifers” and “Pro-Choice”. One group of pro-lifers decided that they wanted to join in some protests at the local women’s clinic (abortion clinic). However, they had kids and didn’t want to bring them to the protests.
You know what happened? Some of the “Pro-choice” people volunteered to babysit so that their “political opponents” could go to the protests.
That is an example of what we mean by, “We don’t care what you believe, it’s how you behave.”
Our church is actually split between “Pro-lifers” and “Pro-Choice”. One group of pro-lifers decided that they wanted to join in some protests at the local women’s clinic (abortion clinic). However, they had kids and didn’t want to bring them to the protests.
You know what happened? Some of the “Pro-choice” people volunteered to babysit so that their “political opponents” could go to the protests.
That is an example of what we mean by, “We don’t care what you believe, it’s how you behave.”
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SteveVH
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Did you read anything in my post? Are you aware of the hypostatic union; the union of Christ’s human nature with his divine nature? God has never changed. He humbled himself and became man while retaining his divinity. And he became truly human, he was not just pretending to be human.
“Christ possesses two wills and two natural operations, divine and human. They are not opposed to each other, but cooperate in such a way that the Word made flesh wiled humanly in obedience to his Father all that he had decided divinely with the father and the Holy Spirit for our salvation.” (CCC par 474)
And by the way, I wish I could take credit for it but this is not according to me, but according to the Church.
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SteveVH
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Yes.
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SteveVH
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I believe that the fullness of truth was revealed in Jesus Christ and I await no further revelation. Christ is God’s only Word. He has no other.
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SteveVH
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The reason for my statement is the fact that if I walked into a building in which a group of people were meeting and found Buddhist, Hindu, Wiccan, Christian, Muslim, fill in the blank religious materials, the first thing I would ask is “What do you folks believe?”. Since one cannot believe all simultaneously I would have to conclude that they do not know what to believe. Others of your own organization have said that it matters not what one believes. That is not a statement which one who actually holds a belief would make.
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SteveVH
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How am I framing theology for you? This is a matter of simple reason. If I claim to be the Son of God I either am the Son of God or I am not. If I am not then I am a liar or severely delusional. The point is that Jesus was not just a good man who had some cool things to say.
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LisaA
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I’m not sure you interpreted SteveVH’s question correctly. You say words were written ‘of Jesus by others…’ which sounds like someone created a fictional account of Jesus rather than quoting HIs words.
The New Testament was written relatively closely to Jesus’ actual life on earth, and the writers’ accounts were amazingly consistent in what Jesus said about His nature and who He was. Thus what He said is either correct or Jesus lied. (I’ve got several books indicating that the NT accounts were far more credible than much of recorded history due to the proximity of time and writer to the subject).
I don’t think you can make valid comparison to Mohammed who never claimed to be of divine nature or Joseph Smith who, in my opinion was one step above a carnival barker. I LOVE Mormons but their founder was pretty sketchy! I think he probably was a liar.
BTW I’m curious, as a Cradle Catholic, do you think you were well catechized? In my mind, to KNOW the Church is to love the Church. The incredible wisdom, logic and consistency in the Catechism and in Catholic teaching are very compelling to me. I came into the Church through an intellectual analysis long before I fell in love. It all makes perfect sense to me and the beauty of the carefully crafted and supported teaching makes disagreement difficult.
As a convert, what I’ve found is that people who reject the Church often reject something that is not true and based on misunderstandings or regurgitating by rote memory without really thinking about what you are saying. I just wonder if you fall into that category.
Lisa
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rinnie
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AH but the question is do we need go to be good.
My answer would be Yes we do. Why? Because all goodness comes FROM God.
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rinnie
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See Jesus taught its not only what you believe but how you live out what you believe.
Like in the bible Jesus taught us how a certain type of Jews were very well behaved. On the outside.
Here is what Jesus told them.
You clean the outside of the cup and dish but the inside is full of greed and self-Indulgence.
See Jesus said you can’t be lukewarm. You are either hot or cold.
So how could you be HOT for Christ and be against the killing of babies, but yet babysit for your neighbor who is going out to picket for abortion? Would that not make you lukewarm, at best? Just asking?
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rinnie
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No offense, but from what I am reading this religion or Church or whatever you call it seems to be whatever floats your boat. Am I wrong?
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ProudUU
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Yes, you are wrong.
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PRmerger
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Who decides whether a belief is permissible?
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PRmerger
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Interesting.
So a child molester could** believe** that it is absolutely moral to molest a child, and never touch a child, and this is unimportant to the UU church?
And a white supremacist could believe that he is superior to a black man, and as long as he never meets a black man in your church to which he could behave poorly, the UU would feel this belief is unimportant?
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ProudUU
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Our core principles have been laid out several times on this thread. I fully accept that most folks on these boards don’t accept our core principles as valid beliefs, and that’s fine. Really. I’m not here to proselytize. But to continuously act as though UUism isn’t a valid religion or is nothing more than a social club is offensive, to be honest, and frankly, it comes across as belligerent ignorance. I have never felt as spiritually fulfilled as I do since becoming a UU and attending services. It’s a huge part of my everyday life. It has made me want to be a better person (and has made me a better person who is always learning and evolving). Just as, I’m sure, you would say about your religion.
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PRmerger
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But what I don’t understand is this, which has not clearly been explicated: is the UU paradigm–if it’s not addressed in our core principles, it’s permitted? Or is it: If it’s not addressed in our core principles it’s forbidden?
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PRmerger
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I agree with you that proposing that the UU church is nothing more than a social club is offensive.
Not exactly. Religion is about Truth. Not about what makes you a “better person” (although that is, of course, a natural benefit of being aligned with the Truth.)
If if were about being a “better person”, then we would all applaud an adult for believing in Santa Claus, if that belief made her a happier, better, more moral person.
Of course, no sane person believes that an adult should believe in Santa Claus, even if it did make her a “better person”.
Why?
Because belief in Santa Claus, while making you a “better person”, is not consonant with Truth.
Truth trumps everything.
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ProudUU
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It is hard to say that something is “forbidden” - meaning that, since UUism doesn’t promote a “heaven” or “hell” and there is no dogma, we don’t really cotton to the idea of forbiddance, per se. We don’t worry about confession or anything like that. That said, though, there are values and beliefs that some people hold that absolutely are in direct violation of our core principles. Our core principles are quite broad - they don’t specifically state “you must believe xyz” or “you must not believe abc.” They represent a covenant we enter into with one another and with the world at large.
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