Ask about Imam Mahdi (as)

[openmind77]

NOTE I am truly hoping to learn something on this thread. As my background is originally Christian, my familiarity with the depths of Islam is limited to what I have learned through several readings of the Quran, what has come to me through the Baha’i Faith, and a few other books, chief among them: Muhammad and the Course of Islam, by Balyuzi, George Ronald Press.

There is a difference between literal interpretations of prophecy and symbolic. While the Bab was a direct descendent of Muhammad, He was not a thousand years old, yet the essence of His reality was that He claimed for Himself the station of “The Gate”, the Qaim, the Promised Mahdi.

Even as John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy of the coming of Elijah the Prophet necessary before the coming of the Messiah (Jesus), he was not the same physical person. The rose of this spring brings the same beauty and fragrance of last year’s rose, and in one sense, is the return of that rose, while in an individual earthly sense it is not. Such was the case with John the Baptist. Such is the case with the Bab.

His followers would raise the cry: “Ya Sahib u Zaman!” O Lord of the Age whenever they were attacked.

I am sure you mean well, but to the rest of us, the belief that some guy born 200 hundred years ago and long since dead, is the expected Mahdi, is really not that interesting. If true, he did not accomplished not very much - the world is pretty much the way he found it, probably worse.

Let us just assume for the sake of this thread that the Imam has not already come and gone and is yet to arrive.

 

[openmind77]

Jesus (as) will play a role in the Government of Al-Mahdi (as). According to the hadiths, Imam Mahdi (as) would be the first to recognise Jesus (as).

Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari (RA) said: I heard the Messenger of Allah saying: "A group of my Ummah will fight for the truth until near the day of judgment when Jesus, the son of Marry, will descend, and the leader of them will ask him to lead the prayer, but Jesus declines, saying: “No, Verily, among you Allah has made leaders for others and He has bestowed his bounty upon them.”

In another version: Jesus, the son of Marry, will descend, and the Imam of them will ask him to lead the prayer, but Jesus replies: “You have more right to it, and verily Allah has honored some of you over others in this Ummah.”

In another report Abu Basir narrated that he asked Imam Sadiq: “Who is the Qa’im of the ahl al-bayt?” He said:
O Abu Basir, he will be the fifth descendant of my son Musa, the son of the best among the slave girls. His occultation will be prolonged so much so that a group will fall into doubt. Afterwards God will cause him to appear and will make him conquer the entire world. Jesus, the son of Mary, will descend [from heaven] and will perform his prayer standing behind him. In that afternoon the earth will brighten up with the Light of God and all spots on earth where other than God was worshipped will become a prayer house dedicated to God. Religion will be entirely God’s, even though the disbelievers may be averse to it.

Jesus (as) will be the Imam’s representative in the fight against the Dajjal (Anti-Christ) or great deceiver. It is reported Jesus (as) will intercept the Dajjal and strike him with a decisive blow.

If Jesus will be part of the Government of Al-Mahdi, who are then the subjects of such a government - both Muslims and Christians or just Muslims?

 

[daler]

I am sure you mean well, but to the rest of us, the belief that some guy born 200 hundred years ago and long since dead, is the expected Mahdi, is really not that interesting. If true, he did not accomplished not very much - the world is pretty much the way he found it, probably worse.

Let us just assume for the sake of this thread that the Imam has not already come and gone and is yet to arrive.

Friend, Add a zero to that, go from 200 to 2000 years ago, and you’ve got John the Baptist.

The Bab was to Baha’u’llah what John was to Jesus. Over 20,000 died testifying to the truth of the Bab. Many are still very much persecuted for their belief in Baha’u’llah, and both of them came from where Daniel had his great vision foretelling the first and second coming of Jesus. This was in Elam, or Persia, now called Iran (the southwestern portion), which is also the place where Jeremiah said it would happen: “The Lord shall set “His” Throne in Elam”

What it does, is ties in Jewish, Christian, and Muslim prophecies.

And the world is a Very different place than it was in 1844. We’ve got rocket science and the Internet…

 

[famdigy]

If Jesus will be part of the Government of Al-Mahdi, who are then the subjects of such a government - both Muslims and Christians or just Muslims?

The Mahdi (as) will dig up the original Torah and Gospel revealed to Moses and Jesus and he will judge people of different faiths according to their faith. The majority of the population would have accepted Islam by then but there will be Christians, Jews and even unbelievers although they will be a minority.

 

[famdigy]

The justification for a symbolic meaning to these signs of the Mahdi is simply because they REMOVE faith, (when taken so literally) one of the central capabilities of human beings. Think about it, if a voice was heard from the sky and EVERYONE heard it, literally, then a man who has been in hiding for a THOUSAND years suddenly reappears, only to precede Jesus literally coming down from the clouds, who on earth needs FAITH any more? We instantly lose our humanity and become puppets of God.

We know that even when miracles are presented some people will still chose to ignore it and believe it to be magic instead. Moses (as) for example split the sea into two in front of Pharaoh and his army yet they still chose not to believe. Jesus (as) performed many miracles in front of the Jews of his time and yet many of them didn’t believe or follow him. If a person is receptive then that person will be guided to the right path, if not then no amount of miracles would convince that person to believe. This is the human condition.

 

[famdigy]

There is a difference between literal interpretations of prophecy and symbolic. While the Bab was a direct descendent of Muhammad, He was not a thousand years old, yet the essence of His reality was that He claimed for Himself the station of “The Gate”, the Qaim, the Promised Mahdi.

Even as John the Baptist fulfilled the prophecy of the coming of Elijah the Prophet necessary before the coming of the Messiah (Jesus), he was not the same physical person. The rose of this spring brings the same beauty and fragrance of last year’s rose, and in one sense, is the return of that rose, while in an individual earthly sense it is not. Such was the case with John the Baptist. Such is the case with the Bab.

His followers would raise the cry: “Ya Sahib u Zaman!” O Lord of the Age whenever they were attacked.

My apologies I don’t understand the Baha’i believe in the Mahdi but fundamentally the Mahdi is supposed to be an agent of positive change on earth on a global scale. He would bring out all of the secrets of the Quran and previous revelations to perfect the human condition. According to the Ahadeeth, The Mahdi will administer the entire world under one government. This is understood literally and i’m not sure how it could be explained symbolically.

Imam Sadiq (as) is reported to have said:

“Knowledge is divided into twenty-seven parts. No more than two parts has been acquired by human beings so far. When our Qa’im arises he will expose the rest of the twenty five parts and distribute it among the people”

This knowledge the imam is speaking of above includes science, technology, agriculture, economics, etc, etc. His accomplishments would be extraordinary to say the least.

This is in contrast to the Baha’i Mahdi

 

[daler]

My apologies I don’t understand the Baha’i believe in the Mahdi but fundamentally the Mahdi is supposed to be an agent of positive change on earth on a global scale. He would bring out all of the secrets of the Quran and previous revelations to perfect the human condition. According to the Ahadeeth, The Mahdi will administer the entire world under one government. This is understood literally and i’m not sure how it could be explained symbolically.

Imam Sadiq (as) is reported to have said:

“Knowledge is divided into twenty-seven parts. No more than two parts has been acquired by human beings so far. When our Qa’im arises he will expose the rest of the twenty five parts and distribute it among the people”

This knowledge the imam is speaking of above includes science, technology, agriculture, economics, etc, etc. His accomplishments would be extraordinary to say the least.

This is in contrast to the Baha’i Mahdi

Famdigy, Thank you for your comments. This is what is happening, what you describe. It is not an instantaneous magical moment which suddenly transforms the world, but rather the effect of His words upon the hearts of men.
Even as the words of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) civilized the tribes of Arabia and positively influenced the world over the course of over a thousand years, so too the words uttered by the Qa’im and Baha’u’llah are having a similar effect in the world. It is transformative, rebuilding modern civilization as did the religion of Islam.
I am familiar with the 27 letters quote of Imam Sadiq. It is parallel to what Jesus said, “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bare them now. Howbeit, when He, the Spirit of Truth is come, He will guide you into all truth.” i.e., the remaining 5 and 20 letters shall be unveiled to the eyes of men.
Consider the progression of knowledge, technology, agriculture, and economics in the past 170 years. All of the progress of human history is dwarfed just in this short span of time. Is this not an evidence and proof to consider that the Qa’im has in fact come? How else could it be explained?
The world system of governance of which you speak, Baha’is believe, is being set up, city by city, nation by nation. The following table was provided by the Bahá’í World Center Department of … in 2001 there were 11,740 local Spiritual Assemblies, and 127,381 localities in 236 countries and territories. Also 183 National Spiritual Assemblies, all under the direction of one Universal House of Justice.

I do not mean to proselytize or anything, and I absolutely respect your beliefs.

 

[dronald]

The Mahdi (as) will dig up the original Torah and Gospel revealed to Moses and Jesus and he will judge people of different faiths according to their faith. The majority of the population would have accepted Islam by then but there will be Christians, Jews and even unbelievers although they will be a minority.

Couple of questions:

1. You say the majority of People will be Muslims. So who is waging war against them?
2. What sort of miracles will be performed? Something like fire falling from the sky?

 

[famdigy]

Couple of questions:

1. You say the majority of People will be Muslims. So who is waging war against them?
2. What sort of miracles will be performed? Something like fire falling from the sky?

HI Dronald,

1. Based on what I’ve read, the Imam’s (as) worst enemies would be the muslims of the time. They would fight him tooth and nail to keep the status quo but the Imam would subdue them. The main opponent of Imam Mahdi (as) is a figure called the Sufyani
2. I believe one of the miracles of Imam Mahdi (as) is that the earth will swallow up an army dispatched by Sufyani to confront the Imam.

also, not a miracle but Imam Mahdi (as) will posses most of the knowledge that we have not discovered yet and so in the Imam’s Era we as humans would make a lot of discoveries and breakthroughs in science, technology, health, agriculture and so much more. The Imam (as) would be like a celebrity sought out by everyone.

Imam Sadiq (as) is reported to have said:
“Knowledge is divided into twenty-seven parts. No more than two parts has been acquired by human beings so far. When our Qa’im arises he will expose the rest of the twenty five parts and distribute it among the people”

 

[Servant19]

HI Dronald,

1. Based on what I’ve read, the Imam’s (as) worst enemies would be the muslims of the time. They would fight him tooth and nail to keep the status quo but the Imam would subdue them. The main opponent of Imam Mahdi (as) is a figure called the Sufyani
2. I believe one of the miracles of Imam Mahdi (as) is that the earth will swallow up an army dispatched by Sufyani to confront the Imam.

also, not a miracle but Imam Mahdi (as) will posses most of the knowledge that we have not discovered yet and so in the Imam’s Era we as humans would make a lot of discoveries and breakthroughs in science, technology, health, agriculture and so much more. The Imam (as) would be like a celebrity sought out by everyone.

Imam Sadiq (as) is reported to have said:
“Knowledge is divided into twenty-seven parts. No more than two parts has been acquired by human beings so far. When our Qa’im arises he will expose the rest of the twenty five parts and distribute it among the people”

Famdiguy our brother/sister

Let there be NO DOUBT, the Imams Return is found in the Bahai Faith.

Scientific discoveries?
There have been more inventions in the last century than the last TEN CENTURIES COMBINED. You can check, that is true…

EVERY DAY, there are more inventions than the day before. Science, agriculture, medicine, knowledge is on a DAILY basis gathering momentum, like a snowball.

Baha’u’llah says that the magnificence of the Bahai Revelation has upset the equilibrium of creation:

"THE world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.

Immerse yourselves in the ocean of My words, that ye may unravel its secrets, and discover all the pearls of wisdom that lie hid in its depths. Take heed that ye do not vacillate in your determination to embrace the truth of this Cause—a Cause through which the potentialities of the might of God have been revealed, and His sovereignty established. With faces beaming with joy, hasten ye unto Him. This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures.

Say: This is the infallible Balance which the Hand of God is holding, in which all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth are weighed, and their fate determined, if ye be of them that believe and recognize this truth. Say: Through it the poor have been enriched, the learned enlightened, and the seekers enabled to ascend unto the presence of God. Beware, lest ye make it a cause of dissension amongst you. Be ye as firmly settled as the immovable mountain in the Cause of your Lord, the Mighty, the Loving." - Baha’u’llah

 

[famdigy]

Here is more on Sufyani and the scream from the sky along with other details.

maaref-foundation.com/english/beliefs/ahl-ul-bayt/12_imam_mahdi/22_advent_of_sufyani.htm

 

[Servant19]

We know that even when miracles are presented some people will still chose to ignore it and believe it to be magic instead. Moses (as) for example split the sea into two in front of Pharaoh and his army yet they still chose not to believe. Jesus (as) performed many miracles in front of the Jews of his time and yet many of them didn’t believe or follow him. If a person is receptive then that person will be guided to the right path, if not then no amount of miracles would convince that person to believe. This is the human condition.

Dear friend, magic is clearly magic, a miracle is not a miracle unless it is undeniable. No one would fail to believe if a star was coming down from the sky with a 1000 year old man sat on top of it…who would dare to say that that is a magic trick!!

Moses did not part the sea LITERALLY, it is not a historical account, it has symbolic meaning. As a Muslim you should try and adhere to science which deals with this world and religion which deals with the spirit and the MEANING behind these parables

God bless you

 

[daler]

Here is more on Sufyani and the scream from the sky along with other details.

maaref-foundation.com/english/beliefs/ahl-ul-bayt/12_imam_mahdi/22_advent_of_sufyani.htm

famdigy My belief is that the tradition that “Muhammad cleft the moon” can only be interpreted spiritually. Let me offer this example.

The sun shines upon the moon. One side of the moon reflects the light of the sun. The other side remains dark, as though turning away from the awesome light of the sun.

When that spiritual Sun shone with the Light of the Lord, those who turned towards Him received enlightenment, whilst those who turned away were deprived of His Light.
Thus, Muhammad cleft the moon, separating believers from non-believers

As if they were afrighted Asses Fleeing from a Lion"

 

[Robin_des_Bois]

Famdigy, Thank you for your comments. This is what is happening, what you describe. It is not an instantaneous magical moment which suddenly transforms the world, but rather the effect of His words upon the hearts of men.
Even as the words of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) civilized the tribes of Arabia and positively influenced the world over the course of over a thousand years, so too the words uttered by the Qa’im and Baha’u’llah are having a similar effect in the world. It is transformative, rebuilding modern civilization as did the religion of Islam.
I am familiar with the 27 letters quote of Imam Sadiq. It is parallel to what Jesus said, “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bare them now. Howbeit, when He, the Spirit of Truth is come, He will guide you into all truth.” i.e., the remaining 5 and 20 letters shall be unveiled to the eyes of men.
Consider the progression of knowledge, technology, agriculture, and economics in the past 170 years. All of the progress of human history is dwarfed just in this short span of time. Is this not an evidence and proof to consider that the Qa’im has in fact come? How else could it be explained?
The world system of governance of which you speak, Baha’is believe, is being set up, city by city, nation by nation. The following table was provided by the Bahá’í World Center Department of … in 2001 there were 11,740 local Spiritual Assemblies, and 127,381 localities in 236 countries and territories. Also 183 National Spiritual Assemblies, all under the direction of one Universal House of Justice.

I do not mean to proselytize or anything, and I absolutely respect your beliefs.

True technology is advancing, but the world’s morals is decaying. Atheism is increasing, same-sex “marriage” is getting legalized, religion is getting viewed as outdated and ridiculous, etc.

 

[daler]

True technology is advancing, but the world’s morals is decaying. Atheism is increasing, same-sex “marriage” is getting legalized, religion is getting viewed as outdated and ridiculous, etc.

All religions have foretold an age of extreme darkness, corruption, and collapse prior to the illumination promised in the Day of God:

"The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.

from the Writings of Baha’u’llah

 

[JustaServant]

The perimeter of a rectangular park is 28 meters. If the length of the park is 7 meters, what is the width of the park?

 

[openmind77]

The perimeter of a rectangular park is 28 meters. If the length of the park is 7 meters, what is the width of the park?

You are off-topic Mr Servant. This Topic does not say ‘Ask anything’ like the others,

 

[Servant19]

LOL…valid response openmind!

I think he knows the answer any way, he’s a “very naughty boy”

 

[daler]

HI Dronald,

1. Based on what I’ve read, the Imam’s (as) worst enemies would be the muslims of the time. They would fight him tooth and nail to keep the status quo but the Imam would subdue them. The main opponent of Imam Mahdi (as) is a figure called the Sufyani

Famdigy,
. I appreciate your sharing from the traditions of your faith. It is important for all of us to share whatever it is that we have learned along the way, or also what has been handed to us, whether by our family or the culture we grew up in.

. I was raised a Christian on an Indian Reservation and the poor Indians really had it rough. It was Dances With Wolves country, you know. I grew up with the expectation of Jesus descending on a cloud, etc.

. When I finally became a Baha’i in 1980, I began to realize the symbolic nature of so many of the Biblical accounts. Also, just as the Jews persecuted Christians, it follows that the Muslims would in fact persecute the Mahdi. This is what happened in Iran, and is still happening.

. Did you know that the Angel Gabriel gave Daniel his visions? And that Daniel’s great vision took place in Iran? Southwestern Iran used to be called Elam. The prophet Jeremiah also said that the Lord would set His throne in Elam.

. Daniel foretold that Christ would be crucified (cut off) 490 years (70 weeks = 70 X 7 = 490) after the rebuilding of Jerusalem in 457 BC under Artaxerxes. 490 - 457 = 34 AD (There was no year zero, so 1 is added from the old calendar) when Jesus was crucified.

. Daniel also prophesied the Return after 2300 days (years) from the same starting date. 2300 - 457 (+1) = 1844, which is the year 1260 AH, prophesied also by Daniel and Revelation, which actually proves the Prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH).

. So the Qaim arose 1000 years after occultation in 260 AH, or 1260 AH, which is 1844 AD, in Elam, as Daniel and Jeremiah prophesied, and also Jesus told His disciples to look to Daniel the prophet for His return. In Revelation it also speaks of 1260 days (years).

. And Daniel also refers to the years 1280 AH, which is 1863, when Baha’u’llah declared himself publicly, 1290 years after Muhammad had done so. Daniel speaks of 1260, 1280, and 1290.

. So it all fits like one single puzzle when you put the pieces together.