Ask about Islam

[planten]

Before that how do you know Jesus was indeed born without a biological father?

Any independent proof (other than your so-called “gospels”) to support your idea/belief?

**Two very good questions. And Islam does not say that Jesus was born without a father. But since it is the majority opinion, we do not contest it.

But bile seems to be busy trying to prove that Jesus had a father (Joseph). There is the geneology of Jesus in the bible. All goes to prove that bible believes in Jospeh as the real father of Jesus.

In one of the verses of the bible, when looking around for Jesus who was left behind, Mary speaks to Jesus in the words 'Where have you been and myself and your FATHER had been looking for you?" The world used there for the father is for the real father.
**

 

[scipio337]

**Two very good questions. And Islam does not say that Jesus was born without a father. But since it is the majority opinion, we do not contest it.

But bile seems to be busy trying to prove that Jesus had a father (Joseph). There is the geneology of Jesus in the bible. All goes to prove that bible believes in Jospeh as the real father of Jesus.

In one of the verses of the bible, when looking around for Jesus who was left behind, Mary speaks to Jesus in the words 'Where have you been and myself and your FATHER had been looking for you?" The world used there for the father is for the real father.
**

Right. We should believe it because you said so. What verse, what word for father? Is it confirmed by a codex?

 

[Angelos]

Two very good questions. And Islam does not say that Jesus was born without a father. But since it is the majority opinion, we do not contest it.

What does Islam say then? Does the Koran really tell lies about the means of Jesus’ nativity? The following verses quoted from the Koran rebut your theory:

Surah 19:12-15
(And it was said unto his son): O John! Hold fast the Scripture. And we gave him wisdom when a child, And compassion from Our presence, and purity; and he was devout, And dutiful toward his parents. And he was not arrogant, rebellious. Peace on him the day he was born, and the day he dieth and the day he shall be raised alive!

Surah 19:30-33
He (Issa) spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet, And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive, And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest. Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!

A comparative reading of the verses above about John and Issa but proves that Islam teaches Issa was born without a father.

**
But bile seems to be busy trying to prove that Jesus had a father (Joseph). There is the geneology of Jesus in the bible. All goes to prove that bible believes in Jospeh as the real father of Jesus.**

This is one of the silliest comments I have ever heard. In sharp contrast to what you assert, none of the Gospels teaches that Joseph was Jesus’ biological/real father. Actually, Matthew makes it clear that Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit:

Matthew 1:18-20
Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost. Whereupon Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately.But while he thought on these things, behold the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost.

**
In one of the verses of the bible, when looking around for Jesus who was left behind, Mary speaks to Jesus in the words 'Where have you been and myself and your FATHER had been looking for you?" The world used there for the father is for the real father.
**

The reason why you choose to ignore what Jesus says to His mother in response is an answer known to us:

Luke 2:48-49
And seeing him, they wondered. And his mother said to him: Son, why hast thou done so to us? Behold thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. And he said to them: How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be about my father’s business?

More, read for the first time in your life what Luke says about Joseph’s fatherhood:

Luke 3:23
And Jesus himself was beginning about the age of thirty years: being, as it was supposed, the son of Joseph.

Now you answer my question please. According to your Koran, a man became Mary’s guardian (Surah 3:44). Why do you think that happened and who was that male protector?

 

[planten]

What does Islam say then? Does the Koran really tell lies about the means of Jesus’ nativity? The following verses quoted from the Koran rebut your theory:

Surah 19:12-15
(And it was said unto his son): O John! Hold fast the Scripture. And we gave him wisdom when a child, And compassion from Our presence, and purity; and he was devout, And dutiful toward his parents. And he was not arrogant, rebellious. Peace on him the day he was born, and the day he dieth and the day he shall be raised alive!

Surah 19:30-33
He (Issa) spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet, And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive, And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest. Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!

A comparative reading of the verses above about John and Issa but proves that Islam teaches Issa was born without a father.

This is one of the silliest comments I have ever heard. In sharp contrast to what you assert, none of the Gospels teaches that Joseph was Jesus’ biological/real father. Actually, Matthew makes it clear that Jesus was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit:

Matthew 1:18-20
Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost. Whereupon Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately.But while he thought on these things, behold the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost.

The reason why you choose to ignore what Jesus says to His mother in response is an answer known to us:

Luke 2:48-49
And seeing him, they wondered. And his mother said to him: Son, why hast thou done so to us? Behold thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. And he said to them: How is it that you sought me? Did you not know that I must be about my father’s business?

More, read for the first time in your life what Luke says about Joseph’s fatherhood:

Luke 3:23
And Jesus himself was beginning about the age of thirty years: being, as it was supposed, the son of Joseph.

Now you answer my question please. According to your Koran, a man became Mary’s guardian (Surah 3:44). Why do you think that happened and who was that male protector?

**Please do not teach me the Quran. I did not want to go into that discussion. You do not believe in Quran. So please forget it. Go by the bible and the geneology of Jesus.

I again remind you that the geneology of Jesus is described in mathew and luke. For what purpose? It is being proved from Adam to Joseph that Jesus is the son of Joseph the carpenter. What for is that geneology?. Angelos, you seem to be in real trouble due to that geneology of Jesus. It is there for some purpose and the purpose is to prove that Jesus hailed from King David…
You have an iron in every fire

How can that be if David is not his grand grand grand… father?
.**

 

[dzheremi]

**Please do not teach me the Quran. I did not want to go into that discussion. You do not believe in Quran. So please forget it.
**

Then likewise you should forget the Bible, or I would ask you to do so if you ever knew it to begin with. It is obvious from your half-baked comments that you do not know it now and never have. You don’t believe in it, so whether or not your twisted reading of it supports or refutes Muslim claims, using your logic you should leave it alone.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

Since there is no ultimate blood sacrifice for sin and God can forgive us by merely repenting, how is He perfectly merciful and just at the same time?

why , what’s the problem ?

repenting means you are really sorry for your sin/ mistakes & u promised God that you won’t repeat the sin.

if you are sincere , then God Willing , u will be forgiven.

Adam (p) forgot & disobeyed God ; he offered his sincere repentace & God forgave him .

Moses (p) accidently killed a man ; he immediately offered his sincere repentance & God the most kind forgave him.

 

[inJESUS]

Adam (p) forgot & disobeyed God ; he offered his sincere repentace & God forgave him .

can you please show me how Adam forgot? and what do you call God’s punishment after Adam’s sin? if there is forgiveness, where is justice if God is both merciful and just?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

According to your Koran, a man became Mary’s guardian (Surah 3:44). Why do you think that happened and who was that male protector?

Prophet Zakariyya (p) was a relative of Mother Mary (p) …most probably he was her uncle .

She learnt about oneness of God & other religious matters from him.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

…is there no reason why Jesus has no biological father in Islam?

 

[R_not]

Salaam/peace;

why , what’s the problem ?

repenting means you are really sorry for your sin/ mistakes & u promised God that you won’t repeat the sin.

if you are sincere , then God Willing , u will be forgiven.

Once again you forget to make sure everyone knows that sin to a muslim is different than everyone else’s idea of sin.

muslims only consider shirk and and one who does not abide by either halal or haram.

So, basically lying, killing, kidnapping/raping/enslaving, and stealing from infidels is just fine and dandy.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

can you please show me how Adam forgot?

We gave a commandment to Adam before, but he forgot…[20.115]

 

[Angelos]

Please do not teach me the Quran. I did not want to go into that discussion. You do not believe in Quran. So please forget it. Go by the bible and the geneology of Jesus.

Please do not command me what to do and what not to do.

Your response is both inconsistent and irrational. You are asking me not to talk of the Koran because of my disbelief whereas you yourself are always talking of the Bible despite your disbelief! What kind of justice is this?

I am only referring to the Koran because you seem to forget what the Koran teaches you. My job is only to remind you of your scripture. Since it is your scripture, you must go by it instead of ignoring its verses while attacking Christian tenets.

**
I again remind you that the geneology of Jesus is described in mathew and luke. For what purpose? It is being proved from Adam to Joseph that Jesus is the son of Joseph the carpenter. What for is that geneology?. Angelos, you seem to be in real trouble due to that geneology of Jesus. It is there for some purpose and the purpose is to prove that Jesus hailed from King David…
You have an iron in every fire

How can that be if David is not his grand grand grand… father?
.**

Jesus’ genealogy is presented by Matthew and Luke, who make use of the genealogy to highlight the perfect association between the Old Testament promises and what happens in Jesus’ life. Thus, genealogies are one of the several signs that illustrate how divine promises are fulfilled in Christ.

David is Jesus’ father as Abraham is. There is nothing wrong with this tenet, but there is something wrong with your approach to this issue: You are following your wishful thinking and fallacies rather than what the NT teaches about Christ.

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace
Prophet Zakariyya (p) was a relative of Mother Mary (p) …most probably he was her uncle .

She learnt about oneness of God & other religious matters from him.

I see that you are either mistakenly or deliberately giving a wrong answer to my question.

Let’s see what the Koran teaches about Mary’s guardian:

Surah 3:37
And her Lord accepted her with full acceptance and vouchsafed to her a goodly growth; and made Zachariah her guardian. Whenever Zachariah went into the sanctuary where she was, he found that she had food. He said: O Mary! Whence cometh unto thee this (food) ? She answered: It is from Allah. Allah giveth without stint to whom He will.

This is the first time God allegedly appoints a male guardian for Mary. However, this is not the last time. According to the following verse, a group of Jewish males threw their pens to determine who would be Mary’s guardian after Her departure from the Temple:

Surah 3:44
This is of the tidings of things hidden. We reveal it unto thee (Muhammad).** Thou wast not present with them when they threw their pens (to know) which of them should be the guardian of Mary**, nor wast thou present with them when they quarrelled (thereupon).

The Koran does not tell us who was chosen by lots to be Mary’s guardian or even why that procedure was followed. The only thing we can work out from that vague verse of the Koran is that a male other than Zecchariah became Mary’s guardian when She left the temple at the completion of Her days there.

BTW, the Koran does not state Zecchariah was Mary’s uncle or relative. Who told you that?

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace

We gave a commandment to Adam before, but he forgot…[20.115]

You mean forgetting is not a sin?

Your scripture always accuses people of forgetting things and condemns them:

Surah 5:14
And with those who say: “Lo! we are Christians,” We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished.

Surah 32:14
So taste (the evil of your deeds). Forasmuch as ye forgot the meeting of this your day, lo! We forget you. Taste the doom of immortality because of what ye used to do.

Surah 58:6
On the day when Allah will raise them all together and inform them of what they did. Allah hath kept account of it while they forgot it. And Allah is Witness over all things.

 

[planten]

You mean forgetting is not a sin?

Your scripture always accuses people of forgetting things and condemns them:

Surah 5:14
And with those who say: “Lo! we are Christians,” We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished.

Surah 32:14
So taste (the evil of your deeds). Forasmuch as ye forgot the meeting of this your day, lo! We forget you. Taste the doom of immortality because of what ye used to do.

Surah 58:6
On the day when Allah will raise them all together and inform them of what they did. Allah hath kept account of it while they forgot it. And Allah is Witness over all things.

**Angelos, The Quran teaches repentence. So does the bible. John the baptist and Jesus both taught repentence. If repentence is no use and the blood of Jesus is needed for salvation then what use is repentence?

Forgetfulness is not a crime or a serious sin. In the verses that youhave quoted, the forgetfulness of Adam was simple as he was misled by the devil. He did not disobey intentionally. In fact he was careless or forgot the command of Allah.

There is not much punishment for any forgetful deed, compared to an intentional bad work. We have to see the motive too. Can you understand? Then Allah taught the good words of repentence which Adam and Eve used. So Allah forgave them both. After thatthere is no sin.

You are in trouble from many sides. If yousay that Allah does forgive the sins after repentence then you will not need the blood of Jesus and you will be in trouble.

If you say that Allah does not forgive any sin even by repentence then repentence becomes useless. So the Jesus and John’s support of repentence becomes useless teaching.

Allah wanted to forgive Adam. So He taught him the right words of repentence. So there is no sin left after asking forgiveness.**

 

[Angelos]

**Angelos, The Quran teaches repentence. So does the bible. John the baptist and Jesus both taught repentence. If repentence is no use and the blood of Jesus is needed for salvation then what use is repentence?

Forgetfulness is not a crime or a serious sin. In the verses that youhave quoted, the forgetfulness of Adam was simple as he was misled by the devil. He did not disobey intentionally. In fact he was careless or forgot the command of Allah.**

Nonetheless, the Koran verse describing Adam’s sin/mistake does not use a different verb to make his actions look innocent or more forgivable.

How can you claim that a person forgetting the commandments taught or given him indirectly is more sinful than the one receiving the same commandments directly from God? Adam’s sin is actually greater because he was foretold directly by God that Satan was his enemy and he would try to mislead him. Despite such intimacy with God and repetitive intervention that would not allow him to forget God’s commandments, Adam DID follow Shaitan and obeyed him. Thus, he was found guilty and banished from heaven.

**
There is not much punishment for any forgetful deed, compared to an intentional bad work. We have to see the motive too. Can you understand? Then Allah taught the good words of repentence which Adam and Eve used. So Allah forgave them both. After thatthere is no sin.**

Yet they were not welcomed back into Heaven after their repentance and forgiveness. It is impossible for you to assert that God’s mercy made things as if they had never happened.

**
You are in trouble from many sides. If yousay that Allah does forgive the sins after repentence then you will not need the blood of Jesus and you will be in trouble.

If you say that Allah does not forgive any sin even by repentence then repentence becomes useless. So the Jesus and John’s support of repentence becomes useless teaching.**

I am not debating the notion of repentance, but that of sin. If a person repents, his repentance entails his previous sinful state. Adam sinned first. If he had not sinned, why the need to forgive him??

**
Allah wanted to forgive Adam. So He taught him the right words of repentence. So there is no sin left after asking forgiveness.**

This does not change the fact that Adam was sinful before he was supposedly forgiven by God!

 

[sambos671]

**Please do not teach me the Quran. I did not want to go into that discussion. You do not believe in Quran. So please forget it. Go by the bible and the geneology of Jesus.

I again remind you that the geneology of Jesus is described in mathew and luke. For what purpose? It is being proved from Adam to Joseph that Jesus is the son of Joseph the carpenter. What for is that geneology?. Angelos, you seem to be in real trouble due to that geneology of Jesus. It is there for some purpose and the purpose is to prove that Jesus hailed from King David…
You have an iron in every fire

How can that be if David is not his grand grand grand… father?
.**

The geneology of Jesus is to show his heretige from David. That he is desended from the line of David. And that would be through Mary. His adoptive Father would have given him a legal standing in the linage not because he was of Joseph seed but by adoption. See that wasn’t so hard.

 

[sambos671]

**Angelos, The Quran teaches repentence. So does the bible. John the baptist and Jesus both taught repentence. If repentence is no use and the blood of Jesus is needed for salvation then what use is repentence?

Forgetfulness is not a crime or a serious sin. In the verses that youhave quoted, the forgetfulness of Adam was simple as he was misled by the devil. He did not disobey intentionally. In fact he was careless or forgot the command of Allah.

There is not much punishment for any forgetful deed, compared to an intentional bad work. We have to see the motive too. Can you understand? Then Allah taught the good words of repentence which Adam and Eve used. So Allah forgave them both. After thatthere is no sin.

You are in trouble from many sides. If yousay that Allah does forgive the sins after repentence then you will not need the blood of Jesus and you will be in trouble.

If you say that Allah does not forgive any sin even by repentence then repentence becomes useless. So the Jesus and John’s support of repentence becomes useless teaching.

Allah wanted to forgive Adam. So He taught him the right words of repentence. So there is no sin left after asking forgiveness.**

The Koran teaches repentance. But it is insufficient because it may not be enough you in the end are still weighed.

 

[morning_star777]

Salaam/peace
inJESUS;4154081:

God knows best .

I guess , may be God wanted to see who rejected His sign & disobey , who overpraise Jesus (p) & make him God & who give him the due respect as a prophet & be the real servants of God i.e. Muslims

Ya you are correct.God knows best.But I guess ,may be God want to see that who embrace him or who does not,and that’s why the people who deny Jesus as son of God and God himself,God still tolerate these people

 

[morning_star777]

actually here a greeter, Irish Cathy told me that a saint(I can’t remember his name,sorry:blush: )explained trinity with shamrock.so I have used it bellow my signature line.Btw,am I wrong my friend?