Ask about Islam

[R_not]

Keep in mind when reading a post that puts Abraham in with islam are people who don’t know islam. there is no tie between islam and the other two religions - Judaism and Christianity other than the illigitimate child of Abraham. If you read the koran and hadiths you will find this out.

No one has forgotten anything about animal sacrifice - we just don’t do that anymore. You know why, I shouldn’t have to tell you that.

But, in islam they have a 7th century mentality and along with that they carry forward the rites of mohammed’s pagan religion - Hanifism - and that also includes allah and other rites, such as the hajj and kissing black stones. None of these are found in the other two religions either.

Just like we don’t stone people anymore, or kill people because they are not of a certain religion - islam still has all that in it. and over 35 battles around this globe are fought because of muslim aggression, but they don’t call it aggression. they call it jihad and they have put an aura of good on death and destruction.

Centrality of jihad in islam

 

[tGette]

Keep in mind when reading a post that puts Abraham in with islam are people who don’t know islam. there is no tie between islam and the other two religions - Judaism and Christianity other than the illigitimate child of Abraham. If you read the koran and hadiths you will find this out.

No one has forgotten anything about animal sacrifice - we just don’t do that anymore. You know why, I shouldn’t have to tell you that.

But, in islam they have a 7th century mentality and along with that they carry forward the rites of mohammed’s pagan religion - Hanifism - and that also includes allah and other rites, such as the hajj and kissing black stones. None of these are found in the other two religions either.

Just like we don’t stone people anymore, or kill people because they are not of a certain religion - islam still has all that in it. and over 35 battles around this globe are fought because of muslim aggression.

Thanks!

I’m with you on your thoughts…I simply wanted to know how and why a Muslim believes this and practices it from a Muslim perspective.

Though, I do appreciate the follow up post…you never know who might need to be informed! And it was a healthy admonishment!

 

[R_not]

Thanks!

I’m with you on your thoughts…I simply wanted to know how and why a Muslim believes this and practices it from a Muslim perspective.

Though, I do appreciate the follow up post…you never know who might need to be informed! And it was a healthy admonishment!

I am sorry, I didn’t mean it as an admonishment - I just didn’t want to tell anyone what they already knew! Sorry again.

 

[tGette]

I am sorry, I didn’t mean it as an admonishment - I just didn’t want to tell anyone what they already knew! Sorry again.

Actually…I meant admonishment in a different definition of it. See…in English every word has more than one definition…I like this and dislike this at the same time.

I would say it fell in lines with one these two:
**2. ** To counsel (another) against something to be avoided; caution.
**3. ** To remind of something forgotten or disregarded, as an obligation or a responsibility.

Actually, Merriam-Webster has a good wording:
1 a**:** to indicate duties or obligations to b**:** to express warning or disapproval to especially in a gentle, earnest, or solicitous manner
2**:** to give friendly earnest advice or encouragement to

I did not mean to say I thought you were rebuking me. It was actually a compliment! That darn language of ours…always a barrier!

 

[Frank_J]

Hi Muslim Woman,

Lets us review the chat left in one of the chatrooms for you and lets bring up to speed the people that going to see how you respond to what questions on Islam
If someone what to ask me about Islam I would say that it is a very very violate religion since it’s found by a man you see as founder manly Mohammad.

(Could you explain this passage below?? I translate this to mean that Muslims shouldn’t take Jews and the Christians for friends.

1. The Table Spread (Al-Máída)
   005.051 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

islam.tc/quran/

I also notices many, many statements that would concern me as being one of hate statements in the Ouran? I read area that would cover problems statements like the one above. I see a book and a religion born in blood as Islam was founded by a man name Mohammad.

I’ve worked with Muslims and found them interesting. I had my chance to view there action with others who were not Muslims and found that the ones that don’t believe in there faith are more normal in American mine set. Yet the more religionist they get the more hateful they become. Like let’s use one Iran Muslim woman I knew at one time, she dated a Christian guy who as far as I know is still her boyfriend. She seemed very much in love with him and it was not a big problem with her parents. I would say that she was very progressive Muslim and very open mined.

Yet when one turns on TV and watches what comes out of the Middle East and see people blowing up car bombs as the killer sits in the car in order to kill oneself in order to complete there task. We Muslim religionist talk about a great Jihad against the west and western values and to those who are not Muslims aka Christians and Jews.

Over my life span I have see Muslims kill many in the name of the Muslim god. We can start with the 1972
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_massacre
Web site above covers in short the 1972 Summer Olympics games in Munich Germany. Yet we can even look as recently at September 11, 2001 and see the killing at a great level with the killing of some 3000 people in just one day.
youtube.com/watch?v=yfce_C8GzdE&NR=1
Collapse Inside the World Trade Center! September 11, 2001
youtube.com/watch?v=2iGYVh7HZo8&NR=1
Unseen 9/11 Footage of Second Plane Hitting Tower

Yet in the streets of the middle east Muslims were dancing in the streets and they seemed to be very happy in what had happen in the U.S.A on 9/11.
bible.ca/islam/islam-kill…pt-11-2001.htm
If you click on watch video you will see on window media player

Yet some may say that it is not news web site or one may see it as anti Muslim, but it the what the web site states but it is what one seen when you view the video that is what I question the values of these people. What did Confusess say “One image is worth ten thousand words.”

I very interested in see Muslim woman explain what she see here. Would like to know her values and where she stands on this??)

Second Chat

(Can we agree what is in the listed here in correct and Islam accepts all of these events??

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munich_massacre
Web site above covers in short the 1972 Summer Olympics games in Munich Germany. Yet we can even look as recently at September 11, 2001 and see the killing at a great level with the killing of some 3000 people in just one day.

youtube.com/watch?v=yfce_C8GzdE&NR=1
Collapse Inside the World Trade Center! September 11, 2001

youtube.com/watch?v=2iGYVh7HZo8&NR=1
Unseen 9/11 Footage of Second Plane Hitting Tower

You have a problem with web site below.
bible.ca/islam/islam-kill…pt-11-2001.htm
If you click on watch video you will see on window media player

You have misunderstood what I’m asking, I asking about the video not what is written. Did you see the video and do you agree what is being seen in that CNN report on 9/11/01. Yes or No??

Just view me as Joe Friday the cop from TV show Dragnet. His line was just the facts miss… I’m trying to get take a stand and want yes or no do you support the terrorist view of taking over the world for Islam? This is a question.

Do you truly believe what is written below? Yes or No ?? I’m asking you this question so I can nail you down on what you believe. It not a poor translation for I seen so many different ones that it pretty much say that same thing. There is much, much more that could be view as troubling statements in the Quran.

1. The Table Spread (Al-Máída)
   005.051 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

islam.tc/quran/

I get the sense that Muslims wish not to reveal what they truly believe. I feel that what we see going on in this world is what the Quran truly teaches and that is hate for anything none Islamic. I had Muslim say read what some people someone has read. Yet actions speak louder then words.

I’m in the middle of reading an Orthodox Bible so that I can learn the word of GOD and the history that had taken place. If I were to read a so called Roman Catholic version in would read pretty much the same even differing in words yet reads the same.

Looking forward to hearing your statements not someone else.)

Have a great day

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

…(Could you explain this passage below??

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends.

"Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you in the matters of your religion and those who did not expel you from your homes,

that you show them courtesy and kindness and act justly with them because Allah loves those who are Just."

(Al-Mumtahanah: 8 )

full ans here :

How Should Muslims Deal with Non-Muslims?

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503546344

You can also read:

Do Muslims Hate non-Muslims?

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503545526

Allah Almighty knows best.

she dated a Christian guy who as far as I know is still her boyfriend.

dating is haram ( forbidden ) in Islam for both men & women.

Over my life span I have see Muslims kill many in the name of the Muslim god.

Hitler killed thousands & thousands Jews. Any media ever condemned Christianity or any holy book because of Hitler ?

If you click on watch video you will see on window media player

can’t watch video online. Computer is slow.

even look as recently at September 11, 2001 and see the killing at a great level with the killing of some 3000 people in just one day.

I don’t want to start a debate if really Muslims are responsible for 9/11. Even if it’s correct , some Muslims did that , tell me
how many died in 9/11 tragedy ? Maximum 3 thousands . To take revenge , Christians already killed million Muslims , yet taking revenge is still going on.

And Christians claim Jesus (p) taught them to turn other cheek.
What a funny joke forever

Do you truly believe what is written below? Yes or No ??

what’s written there ?

I get the sense that Muslims wish not to reveal what they truly believe.

We believe what is in holy Quran. If u live in Canada or USA , u may write to our revert bro ( ex Christian pastor ) for a free copy of Quran . Read & u will see there is nothing to hide. We are commanded to spread the words of God Almighty.

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace

"Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you in the matters of your religion and those who did not expel you from your homes,

that you show them courtesy and kindness and act justly with them because Allah loves those who are Just."

(Al-Mumtahanah: 8 )

The first verse of the same Surah you have quoted from says:

Surah 60:1
O you who believe! do not take My enemy and your enemy for friends: would you offer them love while they deny what has come to you of the truth, driving out the Apostle and yourselves because you believe in Allah, your Lord? If you go forth struggling hard in My path and seeking My pleasure, would you manifest love to them? And I know what you conceal and what you manifest; and whoever of you does this, he indeed has gone astray from the straight path.

According to the Koran, EVERYONE who denies that a book was revealed to Mohammad from above is an enemy that should not be befriended!

Besides, “fighting Muslims in the matter of religion” is a very broad term that refers not only to physical struggle, but also to the mental and spiritual resistance against Islam through the critique of its tenets.

Muslims cannot be tolerant towards non-Muslims as the Koran brags about being at an open and incessant war with all non-Muslims until the accomplishment of the Islamic ideal:

Surah 9:33
He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse

 

[rikkk1958]

I am not convinced with the responses of muslim woman regarding the killings of her muslims brothers on innocent people. Although we accepted that muslims were also killed in the past, her response by counter charging with the same mistake is not a good answer if she is advocating a peaceful islam. Why not admit that your islamic theology is full of passages that are not good for every muslims to read. You have to accept that a drastic amendment in your islamic teachings is a must to counter the growing extremism who believe otherwise than what you believed. We Christians and all innocent non-believers are wary of your true intentions. On one hand you are teaching how good islamic theology is but I think that on the other hand you are also consenting the extremism what your muslim brothers and sisters are doing when they create havoc on the people, even on fellow muslims. This is where we differ greatly when you try to argue with us about your faith because with our faith, Love is the most wonderful thing God taught us. Without Love religion is nothing.

 

[Frank_J]

Hi Muslim Woman,

What you are about to read will need to be in two chats as you will see for it is too large.

You took a part of a quote out of a sentence and yet not the hole thing…
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. (They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.)

You response:
Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you in the matters of your religion and those who did not expel you from your homes,

The passage is should stand together not cut out. Second, Christians are view by Islam as a group of second class of people and not given full rights. Christians can not build Church and they must pay a humiliation tax to show submission to Islam. I right am I not?? Would like to have you show me what Middle east Muslim country that offers freedom for Christians. Please don’t point to a country that the U.S is not in control of. I wanted you to point to what Muslim country offering freedom from fear of force conversions?

See it was never just passage Quarn it’s the many problems statements that can be quoted. I have a copy of the quran in my home and I have high lighted all of hateful statements in quran that could be used in

Do you truly believe what is written below? In the Quran passage I’m not say part I mean all of it. Yes or No ?? 5. The Table Spread (Al-Máída)
what’s written there ? Yes do you believe yes or no?? Please answer the question. Plus do you believe in every other passage written in the Quran Yes or No. If you say yes then one or all then you except all that is written. Then all one needs to know why the anger is to read the Quran.
5. The Table Spread (Al-Máída)
005.051 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

My quote
I spoke of a Muslim woman dating a Christian guy who as far as I know is still her boyfriend and not going to convert.
Your answer:
dating is haram ( forbidden ) in Islam for both men & women.

Yes I knew, you have answered correctly. Yet the muslim woman I was talking about it very progressive and very open mind. She has the right to do what she wants to do with her life. Unlike the middle east backward thinking on human relationships, she is taken the right road on what is called freedom.

My quote
Over my life span I have see Muslims kill many in the name of the Muslim god.

Your answer:
Hitler killed thousands & thousands Jews. Any media ever condemned Christianity or any holy book because of Hitler ?

First the difference is that there is not Christian religionist calling for a death sentence to pass down on any body. It is Muslim so called religionist that are calling for the death of the west and Christianity. Hitler had long ago rejected his Catholic faith by his actions. Yet not one main Christian group ever condone mass killing of Jews. Pope Puis XII never ever condone mass killing of Jews. This is the differences between Islam and Christianity. There were no orders fro the Vatican telling Hitler to kill the Jews.
Pope Puis XII with the help of Monsieur Hugh O’flarty and I hoping I spelling his name right. He help people that were in danger of being kill by the Nazis for either being Jewish people, Americans or British troops.

 

[Frank_J]

(Part 2)

I have a picture of the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Muhammad Hajj Amin al-Husayni commemorates his visit with the Bosnian Waffen SS Handschar troops in a group picture. Grand Mufti of Jerusalem is the fifth person from the right of the photo I’m looking at this time. I have footage of the Hitler and the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem meeting in Berlin in the early part of the war.

My quote
If you click on watch video you will see on window media player
Your answer
can’t watch video online. Computer is slow.

I will grant you that you may have a problem with your computer.

Yet it didn’t change what one can see on window media player. The CNN report shows Muslims dancing in the streets of Muslim controlled areas happy about what had just happen in New York City and Virginia near Washington D.C. Like I said before that one picture is worth ten Thousand words.

My quote
September 11, 2001 and see the killing at a great level with the killing of some 3000 people in just one day.

I don’t want to start a debate if really Muslims are responsible for 9/11. Even if it’s correct , some Muslims did that , tell me
how many died in 9/11 tragedy ? Maximum 3 thousands . To take revenge , Christians already killed million Muslims , yet taking revenge is still going on.

19 is the answer your looking for all of them terrorist. Two plans hit Twin Tower in New York. Remember it only took man to start World War I. I hear that Muslims claim that Jews didn’t. But yet don’t want to take credit for the mass killings. Why not. The Muslims in that CNN report said that it was a gift of sweets to the Muslim world. Osama bin Laden

You listed web site for me to read and I will and will see what is written. Please do the same with the ones I listed below and start with the first one. Would like to see what you think of what I’ve listed here.

youtube.com/watch?v=6W4dsvz5P-8&feature=related
Hitler and the Grand Mufti
youtube.com/watch?v=d0tdMoriQQg&feature=related
The NAZI mufti of Jerusalem
youtube.com/watch?v=HAq9PpCUgYU&feature=related
An Islamic Dr. in London Justifies Slaughtering
youtube.com/watch?v=gGpJC3f3UHk&feature=related
Palestinian Sheik: “Islam Will Rule U.S/U.K, Jews Are AIDS”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden
Osama bin Laden
fbi.gov/wanted/topten/fugitives/laden.htm
F.B.I. Ten Most wanted Fugitive
Watch the first one.

Your Remark:
To take revenge , Christians already killed million Muslims , yet taking revenge is still going on. And Christians claim Jesus (p) taught them to turn other cheek.
What a funny joke forever

My remark
When war begins many die for the action of the few that bring misery onto it’s own populations. My father is a vet of World War II and he saw many die on both sides but he no choice but fight to win and bring to the end Nazi Germany and Japan aggressions. I never claim taking revenge on anyone just Justus. Sometime Justus comes at the end of a barrel of a gun that is the history of war. Remember that 19 Muslim terrorist started us on this road to war. The only way that this war is going to end, is that all of the terrorists must surrender unconditionally. Sometimes evil has to be taken on and defeated whether it’s a country or groups of terrorists

Christians go about there daily lives getting up in the morning and send there kids off to school and then to work. We don’t strap bomb to our bodies and kill ourselves in order to kill people other people it is against the moral code that Christians live by. There have been people that kill others but they are soon found and arrested and put in jail for the rest of their lives.

My quote:
I get the sense that Muslims wish not to reveal what they truly believe.

Your quote:
We believe what is in holy Quran. If u live in Canada or USA , u may write to our revert bro ( ex Christian pastor ) for a free copy of Quran . Read & u will see there is nothing to hide. We are commanded to spread the words of God Almighty.

I do have a copy of the Quran on my bookshelf. I also have two other books one is called “Because they Hate” A survivor of Islamic terror warns America and “They Must Be Stopped” Why we must defeat radical Islam and how we can do it. These books are written be a woman named Brigitte Gabriel who was born Lebanon. You want to read her life story and what happen to her and her family. You will learn how her life went as a little girl in Lebanon as the war broke out in her country.

You answered my question here below.
5. The Table Spread (Al-Máída)
005.051 O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

Plus all that I have high lighted in my copy of the Quran that I have on my bookshelf

Christians don’t spread hate around the world we help people who need help, we feed the hungry and cloth the naked. This the calling for all Christians. Maybe you should visit a Christian Church and see what we are truly like?? You may not have any Christian’s friends because of what the quran tells not have a friends. You maybe surprised to find that we are a good people and not what you think.

Looking forward to your response.

 

[R_not]

Frank J, the muslims on these threads refuse to read anything of ours. They have told me time and again - and they also refuse to take our answers for things too. They only have their koran and hadiths (that they don’t want us to show to them because then they will call us bashers, or bad Christians, or whatever the new mantra of the day is).

You will find that no matter how many times you tell them of all the holes in islam - it just goes onto deaf ears. The only thing I can say is to expect nothing and hope that others who are curious read and figure islam out too and figure out that muslims do indeed deceive us about islam. It is not peaceful, nor is it benign or tolerant of others. In fact, the only peace it recognizes is: death, conversion and/or subjugation.

I will end this post with a response written to a muslim who ended out shutting down the conversation with the usual rants about islamophobia and bashing:

"… in a Muslim country, you could be executed for blasphemy. Haven’t you read any of the Islamic scholars such as Qutb, Maududi, Khomeini, Qaradawi and others? They all disagree with you. They say that only Islam is the God-given perfect system. Do you disagree with that? They would also disagree with you when you imply that Jews and Christians are “believers”. Actually, the Koran, itself, defines who is a believer: "Only those are believers who believe in Allah and his messenger.” (24:62) Since neither Jews nor Christians accept Muhammad as Prophet, they cannot be believers. Do you disagree with that verse from the Koran?"

So, who is the good muslim and who is the bad muslim:

‘war is deception’, mohammed: islamreview.com/articles/masters.shtml

1. “I was ordered to fight all men until they say ‘There is no god but Allah.’” prophet Mohammad’s farewell address, March 632
2. “I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Mohammed.”
   Osama bin Laden, Nov 2001

 

[Frank_J]

Hi R Not,

I agree with your remarks.

In my view Muslim woman can 't answer the questions laid down by me because she will except the direct link to terror by the Muslims world.

It’s like the drunk needs to clean up his or her act. If they don’t except they have a problem how can you cure the drunks problem.

It’s like Winston Churchill view of Muslims. You have his statement and the web site that posted it

danielpipes.org/comments/27711
WINSTON CHURCHILL ON ISLAM - IN 1899!

("How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia
in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many
countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods
of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet
rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the
next of its dignity and sanctity.

The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as
his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must
delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased
to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid
qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social
development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists
in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and
proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa,
raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity
is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it
had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell
the civilization of ancient Rome."

-Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages
248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).
1 November 2005 – Australia)

Have a great day.

 

[R_not]

Hi R Not,

I agree with your remarks.

In my view Muslim woman can 't answer the questions laid down by me because she will except the direct link to terror by the Muslims world.

It’s like the drunk needs to clean up his or her act. If they don’t except they have a problem how can you cure the drunks problem.

It’s like Winston Churchill view of Muslims. You have his statement and the web site that posted it

danielpipes.org/comments/27711
WINSTON CHURCHILL ON ISLAM - IN 1899!

("How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries!
Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia
in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many
countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods
of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet
rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the
next of its dignity and sanctity.

The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as
his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must
delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased
to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid
qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social
development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists
in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and
proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa,
raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity
is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it
had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell
the civilization of ancient Rome."

-Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages
248-50 (London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).
1 November 2005 – Australia)

Have a great day.

Oh, I have Winston Churchill’s sayings and some others - Thomas Jefferson included - on what they had to say about it!

thanks though - it is good for others to know.

Too bad the English don’t remember their heros instead of behaving more like slugs for themselves!!

 

[Frank_J]

Hi R not,

You said that you had statement even by Thomas Jefferson. I would like to see it if you would share it with me? You could print it on your computer and put it in the chat we have going here. I have a book that has 180 out of 18,000 letters written by Thomas Jefferson.

Thank you your remarks; and your right on the mark of the English people.

Have a great day.

Frank J

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

Hi Muslim Woman,

What you are about to read will need to be in two chats as you will see for it is too large.

u have so much patience , MashaAllah. InshaAllah ( God Willing ) , I will try to read the whole posts later.

O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends.

Jews & Christians used to visit the last Prophet & even stayed at the Prophet’s mosque at Madina. Those who fight against Muslims , kill them , torture them , no Muslims should take those non Muslims as patrons/ helpers etc. a related link:

Does Islam Forbid Befriending Non-Muslims?

…The correct translation of the word ““wali”” is not “friend” but it is someone who is very close and intimate. It is also used to mean** “guardian, protector, patron, lord and master”.**In the Qur’an this word is used for God, such as [Allah is the Protector (or Lord and Master) of those who believe. He takes them out from the depths of darkness to light…] (Al- Baqarah 2: 257)

…The same word is also sometimes used in the Qur’an for human beings…It is obvious that Jews patronize the Jews and Christians patronize the Christians, so why not Muslims patronize Muslims and support their own people.

…In his Tafsir, (Qur’an exegesis) Imam Ibn Kathir has mentioned that some scholars say that this verse (i.e. the one you referred to) was revealed after the Battle of Uhud when Muslims had a set back. At that time, a Muslim from Madinah said, “I am going to live with Jews so I shall be safe in case another attack comes on Madinah.” And another person said, “I am going to live with Christians so I shall be safe in case another attack comes on Madinah.”

So Allah revealed this verse reminding the believers that they should not seek the protection from others, but should protect each other. (See Ibn Kathir, Al-Tafsir, vol. 2, p. 68)

…a Muslim man is also allowed to marry a Jewish or Christian woman. It is obvious that one marries someone for love and friendship. If friendship between Muslims and Jews or Christians was forbidden, then why would Islam allow a Muslim man to marry a Jew or Christian woman?

…The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said that he himself will defend a Dhimmi living among Muslims to whom injustice is done by Muslims.

… Allah Almighty knows best.

islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503543362&pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar%2FFatwaE%2FFatwaEAskTheScholar

Christians can not build Church

In my country ( Bangladesh ) , there are many Churches. Late Pope John Paul once visited Catholics here.

and they must pay a humiliation tax to show submission to Islam.

Muslims give Zakat & other taxes as well . By paying Jizya , non Muslims come under protection of Muslims - they are allowed to practise their religion , they don’t need to fight to defend the country if under attack . It’s Muslims duty to protect the country & all citizens including the non Muslims . Pl. tell me how much Muslims must pay in Israel & do they enjoy the same facilities as jews?

 

[Angelos]

Salaam/peace

Jews & Christians used to visit the last Prophet & even stayed at the Prophet’s mosque at Madina. Those who fight against Muslims , kill them , torture them , no Muslims should take those non Muslims as patrons/ helpers etc. a related link:

Does Islam Forbid Befriending Non-Muslims?

…The correct translation of the word ““wali”” is not “friend” but it is someone who is very close and intimate. It is also used to mean** “guardian, protector, patron, lord and master”.**In the Qur’an this word is used for God, such as [Allah is the Protector (or Lord and Master) of those who believe. He takes them out from the depths of darkness to light…] (Al- Baqarah 2: 257)

…The same word is also sometimes used in the Qur’an for human beings…It is obvious that Jews patronize the Jews and Christians patronize the Christians, so why not Muslims patronize Muslims and support their own people.

The correct translation of the word “wali” is not essentially “guardian, protector, patron, lord and master” as some Islamic scholars suggest! It simply means friend.

We have the same word in the following verse:

Surah 4:76
Those who believe fight in the way of Allah, and those who disbelieve fight in the way of the Shaitan. Fight therefore against the friends of the Shaitan; surely the strategy of the Shaitan is weak.

In the original language of the Koran the underlined part reads “wali of Shaitan”. According to your reasoning based on some faulty translations of the word “wali”, this verse means that some humans are protectors, masters, lords, guardians of Satan! Your translation of the word “wali” makes no sense in this verse.

What about the following verse:

Surah 10:62
Now surely the friends of Allah– they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

Your translation supposes that some humans are guardians, protectors, masters, lords of Allah!!!

The same word (wali) is also used in the verse below:

Surah 60:1
O you who believe! do not take My enemy and your enemy for friends: would you offer them love while they deny what has come to you of the truth, driving out the Apostle and yourselves because you believe in Allah, your Lord?

Here, once more, the word wali does not mean protector or master, but simply friend since the second clause of the sentence gives the definition of the word as “someone offered love.”

 

[R_not]

Hi R not,

You said that you had statement even by Thomas Jefferson. I would like to see it if you would share it with me? You could print it on your computer and put it in the chat we have going here. I have a book that has 180 out of 18,000 letters written by Thomas Jefferson.

Thank you your remarks; and your right on the mark of the English people.

Have a great day.

Frank J

This website should have most of the stuff I have read - most of it was in a book, but this has quite a bit:

islam-watch.org/ThomasJefferson/index.html

This is a quote from one of the articles, something our early founding fathers found out:

But for a Muslim to keep his word to an Infidel at the expense of opportunities to expand Islamic power is the Islamic equivalent of a mortal sin.

islam-watch.org/ThomasJefferson/Founding_Fathers_Fight_Islam.htm

this is why no peace treaty is ever kept and muslims are to break it as soon as they are regrouped/rearmed - per mohammed. No one in regards to Israel have figured this out either. It is why muslims can’t keep the peace for longer than a day in too many instances and sometimes - maybe - as long as a week. No one is figuring it out, but our founding fathers did indeed figure it out!

It is also why an agreement that the saudis made to stop the slave trade in the late 1960s didn’t last either. muslims do not keep their word/agreements. That is why the slave trade continues today.

 

[Frank_J]

Hi R not,

Thank you for the information you posted.

Have your read the two books written by Brigitte Gabriel? One is called “Because they Hate” A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America and the other is called " They Must Be Stopped" Why We Must Defeat Radical Islam and How We Ca Do It.

I read the first one and my wife pick up the second one for me to read. I started to read it. Brigitte Gabriel was born in Lebanon and her relgion is Catholic. You may find her life very interesting. It gives all who read her book a view of what could be if Radical Islam takes over.

The two book are a must read to better understand what we face.

Have a great day.

 

[R_not]

Hi R not,

Thank you for the information you posted.

Have your read the two books written by Brigitte Gabriel? One is called “Because they Hate” A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America and the other is called " They Must Be Stopped" Why We Must Defeat Radical Islam and How We Ca Do It.

I read the first one and my wife pick up the second one for me to read. I started to read it. Brigitte Gabriel was born in Lebanon and her relgion is Catholic. You may find her life very interesting. It gives all who read her book a view of what could be if Radical Islam takes over.

The two book are a must read to better understand what we face.

Have a great day.

One of them - Because They Hate. I have not read her other book, but I have read ‘A Never Ending War’ and have ordered Mr. Spencer’s book ‘Stealth Jihad: How Radical Islam is Subverting America without Guns or Bombs’.

Plus in frontpagemag.com (do a search in that website for ‘stealth jihad’) there are a few articles there about the same thing.

yeah, and the end - whether with guns or not - is the same in the end for us: death, conversion or subjugation. My signature shows a website that shows in every, single country muslims migrate to the percentage of them in a country before the violence starts.

I also belong to Act for America - Mrs. Gabriel’s organization.

 

[R_not]

Today I would like to discuss allah’s heaven based on the overly-sexed, old man - mohammed.

I wrote this on a different thread but think that bringing it up here to know a bit more about islam is very appropriate.

mohammed was not enlightened, nor was he exceedingly bright in anything other than the negative of life - war, stealing/looting, enslaving, lying, beating up women, and pediphilia, etc. He was very bright in waging warfare too. He was overly concerned with his own sexual pleasure, and he was concerned with amassing loot in the form of slaves and goods. Once he realized that he needed people to do his bidding in other things, and that a tax base would be good - he created the subjugated (dhimmi) peoples. We see all of this to this very day in islam. In fact, it is the only option that islam recognizes for non-muslims: death, conversion or subjugation.

islamic heaven

Their heaven isn’t much beyond eating and sex, either. And we think, and are told continually, it is only made up of 72 perpetual virgins for each jihadist to be raped. We never are told about the little boys. **Yep - allah sanctions pediphilia!!! **

**In sura: (52:24) Allah promises to supply young diamond-sparkling beautiful boys for some inhabitants of Islamic heavens. Some deceitful western living mullahs will argue that these boys are there to serve drinks to the pious inhabitants of the heavens and not for having sex by those Beduin homosexual Jihadi Martyrs. They also will argue that Koran did not specify that these Ghilman (young boys) will be used as sex partners by Martyrs, i.e., it was not said so in the Quran. Well, Koran also did not specify what those Martyrs/pious Muslims suppose to do with the wide-eyed, firmed, swollen breast, white skinned beautiful houris! Your parent gets you married a beautiful young lady, and parents never say what you suppose to do with your wife, do they? Decietful Mullah’s logic/excuse that these Ghilman could be there as the waiters just to serve drinks and food does not sound right. I don’t think it is the purpose of supplying young boys just to be the waiters. Waiters could be adult person instead of pearl-sparkling everlasting young boys! Is not it folks? **

Let us say these little boys are not for sex - why is it that muslims think that children should be condemned to serve them in any way for eternity? Or that women should only be sex slaves in heaven? It goes back to the slave trade that exists in islam to this very day - they have no problem thinking children should be enslaved in this life too. In fact, what they physically do to these little boys is horrorific. They do things against little girls too - don’t get me wrong, but the whole concept of heaven, slavery and sex - just extends right into their heaven.

Slavery in islam

Over and above all of this - this is all heaven is for them… some place to satisfy base, carnal pleasures that are associated with an earthly life.

So, basically women are to wear tents - or at the very least scarves. To be owned by the males in their family, to submit - in many cases - to men they do not love, or even to submit if they are children, to be the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th wife. With divorce so easy in islam - they could be the 13th, 14th, etc. wife. They have laws that do not protect them against ‘honor killings’, beatings, rape (and if your rapist didn’t bring along a bunch of fellows to tattle on him - you are the one to get stoned or hanged, and then you get to be a virgin forever and raped for eternity! There is nothing in heaven that mohammed conjured up for women other than that!