Ask an Anglican/Episcopalian

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Picky_Picky said:
A commenter a short way back produced “the murder of St Thomas More” as though it were a clincher. I understand that pleasure in a simple partisan statement. It is less comfortable, but perhaps more complete in truth, to say something like “Thomas More was a great man and a martyr; he was also a man with blood on his hands. Tyndale was a great man and a martyr, too.” More complete in truth, and closer to a via media, perhaps?
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There is a memorial in the University Church in Oxford to all the Reformation martyrs of Oxford and the county. On the one hand it is strange to see the likes of Cranmer and Campion commemorated side by side. On the other hand, both thought they were dying for Christ, and did so with great courage. Who’s to say we shouldn’t remember them together for that at least?
 
Peter_J said:
Oops, how silly of me have forgotten that Pius IX was the last pope to teach sound doctrine rather than re-writing history. 😊
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I made a careless mistake in my reply to you. I meant I ''reject re-writing history."

Pope Pius IX was not the last to teach sound doctrine, of course, but never said he was. I meant it’s the Orthodox and Protestants generally who trifle with sound doctrine and re-write history. Sorry for the confusion.
 
GKC said:
And one that I’ve discussed, when it arises, many times, based on my 50 years collecting Lewis. It is a perennial favorite around here.

GKC
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I do find it interesting that Lewis consigned Henry VIII to hell (at least Screwtape did, in “Screwtape Proposes A Toast”)!
 
aidanbradypop said:
👍

I think it best if we all leave the skeletons in the cloest. 🙂
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All our closets are getting more crowded by the minute.

We need another Lewis committed to bringing souls into the large hall of Christianity; from the large hall they will find their proper rooms. I wish we all had the same zeal for bringing non-Christians into the large hall, as we do for promoting our own preferred room.
 
Picky_Picky said:
And I think you must be very discerning …
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I account that observation another reason to like you

Anyone who stresses the complexity of history, full of those frustrating things, humans (who, in the aggregate, are as motley as Anglicans) is looking at it aright, in my book.

GKC
 
GKC said:
I account that observation another reason to like you

Anyone who stresses the complexity of history, full of those frustrating things, humans (who, in the aggregate, are as motley as Anglicans) is looking at it aright, in my book.

GKC
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Thank you, sir.

Humans? Anglicans? One’s as bad as the other.
 
Since Episcopalians are not under the authority of the Bishop of Rome, is it correct to assume you do not believe Christ founded His Church upon Peter but instead upon Peter’s profession of faith that Jesus was the Savior, the Son of God? Dustin has explained Episcopalians believe they are part of the OHCAC. And from my understanding a confirmed Roman Catholic can be received into TEC without re-confirmation because both believe to have apostolic succession. Do Episcopalians believe though Christ’s Church/the Body of Christ is made up of the body of all believers?
 
Contarini said:
No. Newman actually makes it very clear in the Essay on Development that he’s quite aware of the diversity and pluralism of the early Church.
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I think the diversity and what you call ‘pluralism’ was more a groping for true doctrine on the one hand and plain heresy on the other, as opposed to the independent, deliberately separated denominations we see today.
 
Contarini said:
Denominations are not the personal property of the person who happens to preside over them at a given moment.
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No kidding, Edwin. Thanks for clearing that up.

Shori is the presiding ‘bishop’ of TEC. She was elected to that position and it is she who is the globally recognized head of ‘TEC’ and its pilot into apostasy. She may not own it, but she has a firm grip on the tiller.
 
GKC said:
The Articles are not normative for Anglicans, generally, save for (theoretically) clergy of the Church of England, under the Subscription Act of 1571. Laity in the CoE are not bound in the same way by those Parliamentary strictures. Without some other binding authort to which they are subject, Anglicans in general are free to affirm, partially affirm, or cut the Articles from their Prayer book and use them to kindle the new fire at Easter.

GKC
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Wrong. They’re in the BCP. They have absolute authority.
 
Ferde_Rombola said:
No kidding, Edwin. Thanks for clearing that up.

Shori is the presiding ‘bishop’ of TEC. She was elected to that position and it is she who is the globally recognized head of ‘TEC’ and its pilot into apostasy. She may not own it, but she has a firm grip on the tiller.
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Apostasy?

That would be the denomination that shot down the election of a bishop because his practice of Zen Buddhism had led him to alter the liturgy so as to remove references to Jesus dying for our sins?

The denomination that defrocked a priest for becoming a Muslim, even though she thought she could still be an Episcopalian?

That defrocked two other priests for embracing neo-paganism?

That denomination?

Now this may seem pretty minimal to you. But apostasy is a word that excludes even a minimal commitment to historic, orthodox Christianity.

And TEC, for all its huge flaws (and in spite of the PB’s own rather dubious commitment to Christian basics), has repeatedly shown that it is not likely to abandon its basic commitment to creedal Christianity, however much its conservative critics wish that it would do so.

Younger clergy are, generally speaking, more orthodox than the older generation. The direction TEC is heading in looks like a combination of social liberalism and basic creedal orthodoxy.

Edwin
 
Apostasy is a serious accusation to hurl at an entire recognized part of the Anglican Communion. Not to mention most uncharitable.
 
Contarini said:
Apostasy?

That would be the denomination that shot down the election of a bishop because his practice of Zen Buddhism had led him to alter the liturgy so as to remove references to Jesus dying for our sins?
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In the first place I said, ‘leading the TEC into apostasy.’ I didn’t say she got there yet.

You surely must be up to date with her antics. The woman has, as far as I can see, made the homosexual agenda pretty close to doctrine. Whole diocese have left the TEC because of her and numerous parishes, which she’s spending millions suing out of their property.

Was it KJS who shot down the zen practitioner and the Muslim? I’m not sure about that.
 
Contarini said:
Apostasy?

Younger clergy are, generally speaking, more orthodox than the older generation. The direction TEC is heading in looks like a combination of social liberalism and basic creedal orthodoxy.

Edwin
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She inherited creedal orthodoxy. Give her time, Edwin. She ain’t done yet.
 
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