Ask an Anglican/Episcopalian

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Picky_Picky said:
Ah, thanks. Yes, I’ve heard of Mr Berra, although what baseball might be I’ve no idea (he lied). Horrible when someone trips his foot against a joke like that – I apologise.
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Please don’t. You’re a seriously witty man and I got a good laugh out of it.
 
jimkhong said:
Walsingham: 1000 as of Easter this year. They seem to think it was quite an achievement, Honestly, they are not that well received among Catholics either. Remember, Churchill crossed the floor of the House more than once. If the Ordinariate don’t like Francis, will they move on?
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Well, a thousand’s a thousand – presumably a thousand people more at ease. Not what they hoped for, but then as GKC said their hopes were a bit unrealistic. The number of Anglicans desperate to be RC but held back only because they still want Hymns Ancient and Modern, or whatever, may be more than a few, but perhaps not much more than a few. Yes, it was inevitable they wouldn’t be bosom pals with RCs, at least straight away. Let’s hope it works out for them and they don’t have to get the removal vans in again: that would be miserable.
 
Ferde_Rombola said:
Just ponder for a moment who it is who is most pleased by the divisions in Christianity and you’ll have your answer to what I mean.
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Ecumenism consultants, Church Union Brokers, Ordiniariate Transfer Agents? The last is like soccer agents.

What? You mean there is no such jobs?:confused:
 
jimkhong said:
So, what exactly is the difference between Continuum, Continuing Anglicans and is (say) ACNA in one or the other?
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The Continuum is a shifting group of Anglican jurisdictions, pointedly not in communion with the Communion. Continuing Anglicans is another name for same. ACNA is officially in communion with portions of the Communion, and aspires to replace TEC as the official rep of the Communion over here.

GKC
 
GKC said:
The Continuum is a shifting group of Anglican jurisdictions, pointedly not in communion with the Communion. Continuing Anglicans is another name for same. ACNA is officially in communion with portions of the Communion, and aspires to replace TEC as the official rep of the Communion over here.

GKC
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Continuing Anglicans is another name for the same group or another group? If another group, is there an common membership between Continuum and Continuing Anglicans? Is ACNA (say) in one or the other?
 
Ferde_Rombola said:
lol> it’s a uniquely American saying, Picky. It’s ascribed to a former catcher for the New York Yankees baseball team named Yogi Berra, who was famous for his malapropos, such as, “Nobody goes there any more. It’s too crowded.” and “Baseball is ninety-five percent pitching. The other half is hitting and fielding.” The last two are originals. The one I used was made up by some else and credited to him.

I think the phenomenon is much too young to take a survey. I know of no stats on the subject. It’s probably a dribble, depending on how many there are in a dribble.
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The Ordinariates might be a “dribble” now, however, even the first Christians during Christ’s life on earth and soon after were also a “dribble”. The problem is that most Anglicans i.e. CoE, Episcopalians and Catholics have no knowledge that there are Ordinariates for former Anglicans, Protestants and even Catholics who have not completed their Sacraments of Holy Communion and/or Confirmation. It is never mentioned in these churches, although I assume that in a few Catholic dioceses where the Bishop is supportive more people are aware.

The Ordinariate parish I attend when possible has grown over the past year and we have moved our location once and will have to again, as it grows we are now meeting in a school room of a Catholic Church. The parish has more younger members than older ones. There is also the factor that just as some Bishops are not in favor of the EF Mass, they are also not in favor of the Ordinariate, as they are traditional in their liturgy and beliefs.

I have been following this situation with the Anglican Communion since the Anglican Use was created over 30 years ago. The AU, in my opinion, was the small candle that started what we now call the Ordinariate, so in some ways yes the growth has been more than a “dribble”.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
BernadetteM said:
The Ordinariates might be a “dribble” now, however, even the first Christians during Christ’s life on earth and soon after were also a “dribble”. The problem is that most Anglicans i.e. CoE, Episcopalians and Catholics have no knowledge that there are Ordinariates for former Anglicans, Protestants and even Catholics who have not completed their Sacraments of Holy Communion and/or Confirmation. It is never mentioned in these churches, although I assume that in a few Catholic dioceses where the Bishop is supportive more people are aware.

The Ordinariate parish I attend when possible has grown over the past year and we have moved our location once and will have to again, as it grows we are now meeting in a school room of a Catholic Church. The parish has more younger members than older ones. There is also the factor that just as some Bishops are not in favor of the EF Mass, they are also not in favor of the Ordinariate, as they are traditional in their liturgy and beliefs.

I have been following this situation with the Anglican Communion since the Anglican Use was created over 30 years ago. The AU, in my opinion, was the small candle that started what we now call the Ordinariate, so in some ways yes the growth has been more than a “dribble”.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
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I suspect the existence of the Ordinariate might be a little more known in the Anglican world than you seem to think, but no one really knows, I guess.

As to what it will all play out to be, in time, time will tell. I’ve been watching it all for around 25 years, myself.

GKC
 
jimkhong said:
Continuing Anglicans is another name for the same group or another group? If another group, is there an common membership between Continuum and Continuing Anglicans? Is ACNA (say) in one or the other?
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To say the Contiuum, or to say Continuing Anglicans, is to speak of the same people. Two names for one group.

ACNA is not in that group, under either name. It aspires to be in the Anglican Communion, and is, in fact, in communion with some African jurisdictions thereof. ACNA is not a member of the Continuing Anglicans/Continuum. Which latter terms are the same thing.

But if I had time, I could relate a little history of the Continuum/Continuing Anglicans, that might confuse you further.

But no time.

GKC
 
GKC said:
To say the Contiuum, or to say Continuing Anglicans, is to speak of the same people. Two names for one group.

ACNA is not in that group, under either name. It aspires to be in the Anglican Communion, and is, in fact, in communion with some African jurisdictions thereof. ACNA is not a member of the Continuing Anglicans/Continuum. Which latter terms are the same thing.

But if I had time, I could relate a little history of the Continuum/Continuing Anglicans, that might confuse you further.

But no time.

GKC
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I’ve heard from members of the ACNA that they are Orthodox Anglicans but even what the orthodoxy is becomes debatable among them. I do know they hold to the 39 articles.
 
Picky_Picky said:
As to the Ordinariate: fascinating subject. It would be interesting to know how successful that has been (in earthly things like numbers, I mean). Plenty of interesting anecdotal evidence on one side; lots of Anglican loyalists saying it’s just a dribble on the other. Is there any source of statistical info for the Chair of St Peter or Our Lady of Walsingham or Southern Cross?
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Their website states 35 Parishes/Missions in the US and Canada. I cannot find how many members they currently have. Their website nor wiki has it stated.
 
jimkhong said:
Continuing Anglicans is another name for the same group or another group? If another group, is there an common membership between Continuum and Continuing Anglicans? Is ACNA (say) in one or the other?
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Oh dear, I’m going to have a preliminary bash at this while GKC catches up on his housework, or whatever it is he’s doing. It will be rather un-nuanced, and probably blatantly incorrect, but anyway GKC can put me right when he has time.

In the 70s a number of congregations in North America separated from the Episcopal Church, largely over questions of liturgy and also and especially the ordination of women. They claimed to be “continuing” traditional Anglicanism. That’s GKC’s mob.

Twenty or so years later there was a further load of separations, this time largely to do with social teaching, including attitudes to homosexuality. That lot included the congregations that came together as ACNA.

More have followed, here and there. PB Schori is even now reaching for the fire-lighters.

I shall now move down to the air raid shelter in anticipation of GKC’s reaction to my ignorance.
 
aidanbradypop said:
Their website states 35 Parishes/Missions in the US and Canada. I cannot find how many members they currently have. Their website nor wiki has it stated.
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The figure I have heard, and I place no particular credence in it, is in the 2000 range. Could be, I suppose. Or more. Or unlikely, fewer.

GKC,
 
aidanbradypop said:
I’ve heard from members of the ACNA that they are Orthodox Anglicans but even what the orthodoxy is becomes debatable among them. I do know they hold to the 39 articles.
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No, as with all Anglicans, the word is “some”. As in “some do”.

GKC
 
Picky_Picky said:
Oh dear, I’m going to have a preliminary bash at this while GKC catches up on his housework, or whatever it is he’s doing. It will be rather un-nuanced, and probably blatantly incorrect, but anyway GKC can put me right when he has time.

In the 70s a number of congregations in North America separated from the Episcopal Church, largely over questions of liturgy and also and especially the ordination of women. They claimed to be “continuing” traditional Anglicanism. That’s GKC’s mob.

Twenty or so years later there was a further load of separations, this time largely to do with social teaching, including attitudes to homosexuality. That lot included the congregations that came together as ACNA.

More have followed, here and there. PB Schori is even now reaching for the fire-lighters.

Shopping.

In a nutshell, yes.

Details found for the first part in DIVIDED WE STAND/Bess.

Tricky historical part was that, in the beginning around 1979, one of the first groupings of such Anglicans called themselves the Anglican Church in North America. A familiar name, currently. But totally different people.

Now off again.

GKC
I shall now move down to the air raid shelter in anticipation of GKC’s reaction to my ignorance.
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Shopping.

In a nutshell, yes.

Details found for the first part in DIVIDED WE STAND/Bess.

Tricky historical part was that, in the beginning around 1979, one of the first groupings of such Anglicans called themselves the Anglican Church in North America. A familiar name, currently. But totally different people.

Now off again.

GKC

I pulled my comments out to get the quote function right. Trying to move way too fast.

No, you are right. Might take notice that the bulk of the ACNA coalesced around 4 of the 5 dioceses that left TEC

GKC
 
Picky_Picky said:
I should be used to it by now, but I’m not: What distances you lot travel! Almost as though the US were a big place. Global warming must stoke up a few degrees every Sunday
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Well, between my British origins (I was born in England and have never become a US citizen) and the influence of a college professor who suggested that people should attend the church nearest their home (he was also the one who first got me thinking semi-seriously about becoming Catholic, though he is not Catholic himself and later said I had misunderstood him), I have huge problems with this. Currently I attend a church about a five minutes’ walk from my house, which is about right in my book. When I move to Kentucky that will not be possible, since I’ll be living out in the country.
 
GKC said:
I suspect that is true, in the low 4 digits, at best. No hurry. Time will tell. I know I was accounted as hostile to the whole idea, on this and similar sites, for wondering as it all began, what it would all mean, and casting doubt on the projections of vast herds of Anglicans sweeping majestically into Rome, because I strongly doubted that the TAC was quite as numerous as advertised, and that they would enter, en masse. And I was right. But then, I had been watching the whole process for 10 years.

GKC
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I’ll give you my very simple, and very dogmatic (I am a Catholic after all 😉 :D) take on it: Rome seeks to make reasonable accommodation for Anglicans who want, of their own accord, to join the Roman Communion; but many have interpreted it as an attempt to get Anglicans to join the Roman Communion.
 
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