Ask an Anglican/Episcopalian

[EvangelCatholic]

I would love to visit Nashotah some day. I was a student at Valparaiso before entering seminary in Fort Wayne and knew fellow seminarians who worshiped there as often as possible.

 

[Symphorian]

Looks like a full length surplice, with chimere and stole/tippet over it over it. I am willing to be corrected; I don’t attend many functions where the clergy vests primarily evangelically.

GKC

The white vestment is a Anglican style Rochet. Somewhat like an Alb but with baggy sleeves gathered at the wrists. (Part of a Bishop’s Choir Dress.) It’s quite different from a Roman Rochet which tends to be shorter and often lace trimmed.

There are sleeveless versions of the Rochet which The Blessed Percy (Dearmer) advocated for Servers in his ‘Parson’s Handbook’. Haven’t seen a sleeveless one for many a year though.

 

[GKC]

The white vestment is a Anglican style Rochet. Somewhat like an Alb but with baggy sleeves gathered at the wrists. (Part of a Bishop’s Choir Dress.) It’s quite different from a Roman Rochet which tends to be shorter and often lace trimmed.

There are sleeveless versions of the Rochet which The Blessed Percy (Dearmer) advocated for Servers in his ‘Parson’s Handbook’. Haven’t seen a sleeveless one for many a year though.

I suspected a rochet, but pictured it as more like what you describe the Roman style. Thank you.

GKC

 

[andrewstx]

The white vestment is a Anglican style Rochet. Somewhat like an Alb but with baggy sleeves gathered at the wrists. (Part of a Bishop’s Choir Dress.) It’s quite different from a Roman Rochet which tends to be shorter and often lace trimmed.

There are sleeveless versions of the Rochet which The Blessed Percy (Dearmer) advocated for Servers in his ‘Parson’s Handbook’. Haven’t seen a sleeveless one for many a year though.

The bishop who confirmed me eons ago wore choir dress similar to that, except he had a floor length red sleeveless vest over it and a red stole. No Mitre but he carried a crosier which I had to carry as altar boy for my own confirmation.

There was no place in the sanctuary to put the Crosier so the Bishop told me “prop it up in a corner”. It fell over with a huge crash and I had to carry it in recession…bent! That was the most embarresing thing that has ever happened to me in church.

 

[Symphorian]

The bishop who confirmed me eons ago wore choir dress similar to that, except he had a floor length red sleeveless vest over it and a red stole. No Mitre but he carried a crosier which I had to carry as altar boy for my own confirmation.

There was no place in the sanctuary to put the Crosier so the Bishop told me “prop it up in a corner”. It fell over with a huge crash and I had to carry it in recession…bent! That was the most embarresing thing that has ever happened to me in church.

A classic!

 

[GKC]

A classic!

We had a bishop set fire to the fair linen cloth once.

GKC

 

[Symphorian]

We had a bishop set fire to the fair linen cloth once.

GKC

I’m disappointed now…nothing exciting like that happens in our church. We had Nine Lessons & Carols tonight…with all the candles you’d think the Rector might have managed to set his cope on fire. (Would have warmed us up a bit too - the church was rather chilly.)

 

[GKC]

I’m disappointed now…nothing exciting like that happens in our church. We had Nine Lessons & Carols tonight…with all the candles you’d think the Rector might have managed to set his cope on fire. (Would have warmed us up a bit too - the church was rather chilly.)

We called it the Rite of the Flaming Bishop.

I wish we had Lessons and Carols.

GKC

 

[Peter_J]

I have a tippet and a hood from my days at Nashotah House. I would wear them as academic regalia, in the English fashion, because, regardless of my conversion to Catholicism,** I earned my degree.**

You can’t be convicted?

 

[Symphorian]

We called it the Rite of the Flaming Bishop.

GKC

I wish we had Lessons and Carols.

GKC

Lessons & Carols is de rigueur in my Diocese (Truro) as the tradition was started here by +Benson in the late 19th century. It became more widely known due to the broadcasts of King’s College, Cambridge of course.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Lessons & Carols is de rigueur in my Diocese (Truro) as the tradition was started here by +Benson in the late 19th century. It became more widely known due to the broadcasts of King’s College, Cambridge of course.

We did Lessons & Carols tonight at our parish

 

[GKC]

Lessons & Carols is de rigueur in my Diocese (Truro) as the tradition was started here by +Benson in the late 19th century. It became more widely known due to the broadcasts of King’s College, Cambridge of course.

(Sigh).

GKC

 

[Isaiah45_9]

The bishop who confirmed me eons ago wore choir dress similar to that, except he had a floor length red sleeveless vest over it and a red stole. No Mitre but he carried a crosier which I had to carry as altar boy for my own confirmation.

There was no place in the sanctuary to put the Crosier so the Bishop told me “prop it up in a corner”. It fell over with a huge crash and I had to carry it in recession…bent! That was the most embarresing thing that has ever happened to me in church.

Lol.

I lost handle of the bells during the offertory once.

 

[BernadetteM]

I noticed that after the 1979 Prayer Book came out, that many parishes now call the service of Holy Communion, the Eucharist and that more ministers wear Eucharist vestments, rather than an alb and a stole.

When I was confirmed that Bishop wore a Rochet and no miter either.

Although the liturgy has changed to a more high church service the theology is far far from Catholic theology.

One might find that their “Mass” looks very Catholic, however, the beliefs in most parishes are not.

Until the last years (not sure how many), I never knew any body in TEC who claimed to be Catholic, except for Anglo Catholics. At least that is my experience. People who belong to TEC and are of a younger generation would not have much knowledge of how many TEC parishes celebrated the Lord’s Supper, there were few Anglo Catholic parishes and more “High Church” parishes available in years gone by, although it appears that now most parishes lead towards High Church in lliturgical dress and the service of the Eucharist.

Yours in the hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[jimkhong]

although it appears that now most parishes lead towards High Church in lliturgical dress and the service of the Eucharist.

There has been a liturgical movement slowing moving through some parts of Protestanism, largely among Anglicans, Lutherans and Methodists in the last 50 years. In the meantime, Catholicism moved in the opposite direction with mass in the vernacular. It may be too early to say that modes of worship are converging but we are certainly praying more alike that we ever did in the West. Today, we have Methodists praying the rosary and Catholics having charismatic prayer sessions. 50 years ago, I would not have thought that possible - probably because I was just a babe in arms then .

Is this the new Oxford Movement, but one that is broader than CoE? Do we think that we can one day validly break bread at each other’s modes of worship - inside and outside of our respective communions, even if those communions did not unite? And even if we do return to more familiar churches the next day?

 

[ChurchSoldier]

I know for some, they are looking for stability in faith and therefore are looking to re-connect to the Tradition of the past. The Episcopal Church somewhat was aligning itself with Roman Catholicism following the changes of Vatican II TEC went as well to a 3 year lectionary and several (4 I believe) Eucharistic Prayers.

As discussed elsewhere on the forum, much of the change in the 1979 BCP was to express a change in theology. This is where the “Continuing Churches” first acknowledged the separation.

 

[Contarini]

I know for some, they are looking for stability in faith and therefore are looking to re-connect to the Tradition of the past. The Episcopal Church somewhat was aligning itself with Roman Catholicism following the changes of Vatican II TEC went as well to a 3 year lectionary and several (4 I believe) Eucharistic Prayers.

As discussed elsewhere on the forum, much of the change in the 1979 BCP was to express a change in theology. This is where the “Continuing Churches” first acknowledged the separation.

The liturgical changes were really a convergence, in which liturgical scholars from different churches came to a consensus based on their study of the early Church. But Catholics did implement the changes first.

Edwin

 

[skeyes]

Great thread. I have enjoyed reading the posts.

Thanks for starting the thread.

Stan

 

[EvangelCatholic]

I know for some, they are looking for stability in faith and therefore are looking to re-connect to the Tradition of the past. The Episcopal Church somewhat was aligning itself with Roman Catholicism following the changes of Vatican II TEC went as well to a 3 year lectionary and several (4 I believe) Eucharistic Prayers.

As discussed elsewhere on the forum, much of the change in the 1979 BCP was to express a change in theology. This is where the “Continuing Churches” first acknowledged the separation.

Is the change in the Book of Common Prayer the use of non-masculine language?

 

[Contarini]

Is the change in the Book of Common Prayer the use of non-masculine language?

No. That will be in the next one

Essentially the change is from a heavily Augustinian, Reformational theology stressing sin and Jesus’ atoning death to a theology focusing more on our baptismal vocation and on the renewal of creation. I totally understand why the Calvinist low-church conservatives didn’t like it, but most of the opposition seems t have come from Anglo-Catholics, which I find a bit odder. I’ll let GKC voice the Anglo-Catholic objections, if he wishes.

My own view is mixed. I think that the theology behind the 1979 BCP is fundamentally orthodox, but that some of the changes made were questionable. I can worship in good conscience using either the “old” or the “new” liturgy.