Ask an Asatru

[andrewstx]

It’s interesting. lol Being any kind of non-Christian in the South can get pretty dicey when the subject of religion comes up. For instance, during my Jr. year in high school, there was a big flap about prayer in schools, as that’s when the state ruling came down that officially led school prayer was no longer allowed. Our school kept quietly allowing teachers to let a student to say a prayer outloud in the morning during homeroom. I had kept my religion pretty quiet up until that point because it just didn’t seem worth the hassle, but to point out the flaw in this system, I volunteered to say the prayer one morning and recited Sigdrifa’s prayer to the Aesir. Then when the teacher tried to make an issue out of it later, I told her that I was more than willing to talk to both the principle and the ACLU about it, and the matter was dropped. Right afterwards, it was announced that we would all be having a “moment of silence” in the morning.

Most Asatru feel bound by honor to defend themselves and their folk, so when someone tries to make an issue out of my religion, I try to deescalate the situation, but if they keep trying I have no qualms about taking appropriate action.

I am not asatru, but an Orthodox Christian.
But I completely understand the South and it’s fundamentalist traditions. When I was growing up in the south everyday in homeroom we had an extempore Protestant prayer read on the PA system. It may have even been legal since it was always said by a student. But it was always fundamentalist like “Dear heavenly Father we thank you for another day. Help us to be sure that everystudent in this school ‘gits saved’. In Jesus name Aymen”.

That was it. not once was an Our Father or Hail Mary allowed. In the sowuth Baptists rule.

 

[andrewstx]

What concerns me most about pagan Norse Aryan worship is that Adolph Hitler was very devoted to it.

That is exactly where he came up with his “Master Race” nonsense.

 

[ronyodish]

The Christian God did nothing to those who slew His Son in a horrific fashion. Are we to conclude that the Christian God is also powerless?

You are mistaken… you see, the message of the passion and death of the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross IS the power of God!

“For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God” (1 Cor. 1:18).

God bless,

Rony

 

[Gullveig]

What concerns me most about pagan Norse Aryan worship is that Adolph Hitler was very devoted to it.

That is exactly where he came up with his “Master Race” nonsense.

This is a misconception, actually. What influenced Adolph Hitler was the Germanic mysticism revival that started in the 19th century. It’s not the same strand of thought that contributes to most modern Asatru, though we have our share of nutcases like everyone else. A lot of what the 19th century revivalists thought was wrong and has been resoundingly put down by modern scholarship. An “Aryan” race isn’t even a real thing as far as most Asatru are concerned.

That brings up an interesting point, though. Some Asatru hold what we call a “folkish” philosophy. Someone who is folkish isn’t necessarily racist, as there is no implication there that any one “race” is better or worse than another. The gist of folkishness is that modern Germanic neo-paganism is most easily practiced by people who have cultural and genetic ties to the ancient Germanic pagan religion. The usual reasons given are that people of European heritage are more likely to feel culturally drawn towards Germanic paganism anyway, and most likely they already have Germanic pagan ancestors who are looking out for their well-being.

Personally, I’m not folkish and I think folkishness is wrong-headed and based on faulty assumptions. The ancient pagans were unapologetically tribal, but because of elements of their culture not directly related to their religion. More Asatru are moving away from folkish philosophies these days, which is a good thing in my book. If the gods want to call an Eskimo or an African to the Asatru faith, who are we to question that? I think the gods care more about virtue than ethnicity.

 

[Razanir]

There are two schools of thought about Loki. The vast majority of Asatruar believe that Loki is a destructive and chaotic force, which for many makes him “evil”. But Asatru doesn’t have a solid concept of “good” and “evil” beyond what aids the orderly workings of the world and what causes chaos. So, some people see chaos as being evil, but some people see chaos and therefore Loki as being a necessary element that keeps the world functioning. Sort of like Kali in the Hindu religion, to a certain extent. Personally, I’m on the fence about Loki. I don’t think he’s “good”, but he performs a necessary function, in that without the influence of Loki and the jotunns, we would face no adversity and therefore have no chance of spiritual growth.

So to put it in RPG alignment terms, he’s Chaotic Neutral, not some sort of Evil.

Asatru has the concept of wyrd, sometimes called “oorlog”, which is partially governed by the Norns, god-like beings that determine fate. A person’s wyrd is understood to contain three parts: there is the part that is fated from birth (this would be the circumstances of your birth, genetics predispositions, etc. with the possibility that some people have divinely appointed and unavoidable fates, though this is definitely the exception not the rule), the part that is determined by luck (which can be influenced by the whims of the gods, one’s ancestral spirits, and the favor of the land-wights), and the part that you determine yourself. Primarily, the things that happen to you in life and where you end up are your own doing. Even people who are dealt a bad hand over which they have no control can determine how they go about living with it and improving their lot. So, Asatru generally comes down on the site of free will, with the understanding that there are factors involved in free will decision-making that can be divinely appointed or influenced by bad luck.

So our lives follow a predestined path to an extent, but we have some control over how all of it happens?

 

[Gullveig]

So to put it in RPG alignment terms, he’s Chaotic Neutral, not some sort of Evil.

Actually, I would go as far as Chaotic Evil personally, but verging more towards Chaotic Neutral. But definitely Chaotic either way and certainly not good.

So our lives follow a predestined path to an extent, but we have some control over how all of it happens?

More like we’re responsible for making the best of what we have been given. There are things that are completely beyond our control, but no matter how far behind the starting line you start or how many hurdles you trip over, you still have attempt to finish the race. If you putting forth your best effort, then maybe some of those hurdles will be lowered slightly or taken away.

 

[mek42]

Some Jewish teaching says that from Noah’s grandsons there became something like 70 nations and that each nation must find their own path with the deity. Would this be an example of folkism?

 

[Gullveig]

Some Jewish teaching says that from Noah’s grandsons there became something like 70 nations and that each nation must find their own path with the deity. Would this be an example of folkism?

Sort of. I would consider Judaism a folkish religion.

In Asatru, people think of their social relationships and obligations as a series of concentric circles. Your primary concern is your immediate family, while extended family, friends, and local kindred are next, then the greater Asatru community and any other people with whom you have regular dealings, then everyone else. Folkish Asatru insert another level of concern in there between the acquaintances and everyone else and that is the greater European ethnic group. Non-Folkish Asatru think that making ethnic distinctions are neither necessary or productive, and in many cases are counter productive because it furthers the racist stereotype that unfortunately plagues the American Asatruar in particular. There’s no evidence that historical Asatruar made any sort of ethnic distinction in relation to their religion, and to say that the gods won’t accept someone without northern European heritage is terribly presumptive. If the gods want to reject someone, I believe they are more than capable of making their will known of their own accord.

 

[Cider]

And yes, I was being a little facetious about St. Boniface, but most of European pagans really did turn to Christ.

The Germanic tribes were mostly converted from the top down. The leaders enforced conversion on their subjects.

 

[Cider]

The simple answer is that we just don’t know. The only thing we can do is be prepared for whatever happens and to meet that fate as bravely as possible.

The more complex answer is that there are two different theories. The first is that time in linear and that Ragnarok will come and the world will be destroyed as we know it, but that destruction will give rise to a completely new world about which we can know nothing except that some of the gods and humans will survive to make what they can of the new world, those that don’t will no longer exist, and the mythic cycle will come to an end. The second theory, which is probably the more likely one and the one that the majority of Asatru believe, is that time is cyclical and that the world is continually created and destroyed. So, Ragnarok will come, but the cycle will just start over again. If that’s the case, then after Ragnarok, all souls will be reborn into the recreated world all over again.

From what I remember, isn’t there a faction of historians that believe that the concept of Ragnarok is a result of Christian influence and not a traditional Germanic concept?

 

[Gullveig]

From what I remember, isn’t there a faction of historians that believe that the concept of Ragnarok is a result of Christian influence and not a traditional Germanic concept?

That’s a subject of great debate among historians and Asatruar, as we try to tease out what is Christian influenced in the lore and what isn’t. I’m sure that Snorri did embellish a bit and change some details, but I don’t personally buy the idea that the Twilight of the Gods was a complete fabrication. The archaeological record seems to indicate that at least parts of the story pre-dated Christian contact and it bears a strong resemblance to other proto-Indo-European destruction myth cycles. The cyclical time theory also fits well with what we know about ancient northern European shamanic practices. I think that Ragnarok and the Christian Revelation are likely both influenced by an earlier ancestral destruction myth, and that as Scandinavia was Christianized, some of the details of the Norse myths were blurred in the written record to aid in conversion and explanation.

 

[Skadi]

Have a burning question about Asatru and Germanic/Norse reconstructive paganism? Ask it here.

Hail brother! Good to have another north man around!

 

[Gullveig]

Hail and well met! Always a pleasure to see others around. And I’m a North woman, actually.

 

[Skadi]

Hail and well met! Always a pleasure to see others around. And I’m a North woman, actually.

Ahhh, my apologies, but all the same! Now there’s two in the Catholic Forum Kindred haha

 

[MindNight]

Do Asatrus believe that non-Asatrus will be damned, or can a man/woman from various religions (like hinduism, buddhism, judaism, christianity etc…) enter into the same afterlife as the Asatrus (according to your belief)? I know, in your previous posts, you talked a lot about good virtues and actions being more important than race.

 

[Gullveig]

Do Asatrus believe that non-Asatrus will be damned, or can a man/woman from various religions (like hinduism, buddhism, judaism, christianity etc…) enter into the same afterlife as the Asatrus (according to your belief)? I know, in your previous posts, you talked a lot about good virtues and actions being more important than race.

We don’t believe that our gods are the only ones that exist, so generally we believe that the gods you worship get the first claim on your soul and if you follow them, you have to play by their rules. The Christian heaven and hell, then, only apply to people who believe in and are concerned with the Christian god, and so on and so forth. What happens to atheists and agnostics then is uncertain, but that doesn’t mean that they’re damned or have a negative outcome just because of lack of belief. Personally, I believe that all people have the same parts of the soul that Asatru believe we do, so everyone passes on a part of their soul to their descendants and a part to the land and a part to their memory among their people. The self-aware, conscious part of an atheists’ soul may be taken in by a particular deity or it may accompany another part of their soul (i.e., be reincarnated or become part of the spirit of the land). As far as people of other religions, I think it’s unlikely that they would wind up in the afterlife of the Norse gods unless they had a very strong interest in the gods in life and a very weak connection to their own faith.

 

[Lokadottir]

Have you ever heard of St.Boniface?

He lived in the 7th Century and wanted everyone to have the opportunity to know about and love Jesus and his Church. He became a missionary to the western part of Germany. Pope St. Gregory XI blessed him and sent him on this mission. Boniface preached with great success. He was gentle and kind. He was also a man of great courage. Once, to prove that the pagan gods were false, he did a bold thing. There was a certain huge oak tree called the “oak of Thor.” The pagans believed it was sacred to their gods. In front of a large crowd, Boniface struck the tree a few times with an axe. The big tree crashed. The pagans realized that their gods were false when nothing happened to Boniface.

He proved way back then that the pagan gods are powerless!

This post is so old but I just can’t!
If I burned down a church it would not disprove Jesus so don’t apply that logic to my Gods. Also Boniface was later killed so not everyone thought what he did proved anything.

 

[Ecclesiaticus_S]

No thank you.

We would rather not ask ok?

You must renounce the evil ways.

 

[Lokadottir]

No thank you.

We would rather not ask ok?

You must renounce the evil ways.

You sir are a great proponent to the goal of an interfaith community.

 

[freeRadical]

Have you ever heard of St.Boniface?

He lived in the 7th Century and wanted everyone to have the opportunity to know about and love Jesus and his Church. He became a missionary to the western part of Germany. Pope St. Gregory XI blessed him and sent him on this mission. Boniface preached with great success. He was gentle and kind. He was also a man of great courage. Once, to prove that the pagan gods were false, he did a bold thing. There was a certain huge oak tree called the “oak of Thor.” The pagans believed it was sacred to their gods. In front of a large crowd, Boniface struck the tree a few times with an axe. The big tree crashed. The pagans realized that their gods were false when nothing happened to Boniface.

He proved way back then that the pagan gods are powerless!

I’m going to play the devil’s advocate here but I bet if you went outside and told God to strike you down with lightning, nothing would happen. Does that mean God is powerless?