Ask an atheist anything! (seriously, anything)

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Mike_from_NJ said:
Should people in greatest need think that via prayer that they might receive something on Earth that they might not get without praying?
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As I said earlier, God is not a vending machine.
We pray to be closer to God.
We petition God our wants…if they align with his will, then it may happen.
 
Mike_from_NJ said:
By the Church saying that prayer can cause one to be healed means that if many people pray for healing then if the same number of people with the same ailments pray as don’t pray then the number of healed prayers should exceed that of healed non-prayers.
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You are still trying to empirically test God’s will.
It won’t work.
 
vz71 said:
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Mike_from_NJ:
In some cases would you say the benefit of the prayer is the healing that is asked for?
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As stated earlier, the benefit is to draw one closer to God. If the petition aligns with God’s will…
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That’s not an answer. Yes or no, in some cases would you say the benefit of the prayer is the healing that is asked for?
 
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Mike_from_NJ said:
That’s not an answer. Yes or no, in some cases would you say the benefit of the prayer is the healing that is asked for?
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Hence the reason you cannot empirically test the efficacy of prayer. It does not lend itself to a yes or no. You can try to force it, but we are talking about the will of God. This thread has made reference many times to the fact that you cannot empirically test God’s will.
 
vz71 said:
Hence the reason you cannot empirically test the efficacy of prayer. It does not lend itself to a yes or no. You can try to force it, but we are talking about the will of God. This thread has made reference many times to the fact that you cannot empirically test God’s will.
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But it does lead to a yes or no. In the very straightforward question I’m asking I’m not saying that each and every person that prays for something should get it, but in this question would some of the people get the healing the ask for. I’m not asking for percentages. I’m not asking you to quantify it. I just want to know that if a group of people prayed – and you say that those who pray get a benefit from it – would a non-specific portion of those people would they mark being healed as part of that benefit?
 
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But if this is true, why petition for anything through prayer. God’s will will be done, regardless.

I still understand why people would pray, but why do they bother to make any requests through prayer like physical healing or a resolution to this problem or that problem. If God’s will is going to be done either way, and it isn’t something we humans can change, what is the point?
 
vz71 said:
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Mike_from_NJ:
But it does lead to a yes or no.
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Indeed.
Yes or no. Is the petition of the one praying in line with the will of God.
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We are already assuming:
  1. The one praying is doing so faithfully and in line with the will of God.
  2. The one praying gets the benefits of prayer that one who doesn’t pray does not get.
So is at least *some cases would the person faithfully praying for healing get the benefit of the healing he or she is asking for? Yes or no?
 
Mike_from_NJ said:
We are already assuming:
  1. The one praying is doing so faithfully and in line with the will of God.
  2. The one praying gets the benefits of prayer that one who doesn’t pray does not get.
So is at least * some cases would the person faithfully praying for healing get the benefit of the healing he or she is asking for? Yes or no?
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With so many assumptions, you are no longer measuring the efficacy of prayer.
 
vz71 said:
Yes or no to what?
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The question you’ve been dodging for two hours:

In some cases would you say the benefit of the prayer is the healing that is asked for?

(Remember you said that prayer offers benefits to the one who prays, so one of the assumptions you complained about came from you.)
 
vz71 said:
I would not know.
Only God could tell you if his will is in line with a petition made by someone.
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I’ll explain it yet again. I haven’t been asking if one individual person’s prayer for healing would give the benefit of being healed. I’ve been asking if many people pray for healing, will some of them get the benefit of the healing they asked for. Yes or no?
 
Mike_from_NJ said:
I’ve been asking if many people pray for healing, will some of them get the benefit of the healing they asked for.
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If many people pray for healing, it is still a question of their petition being in line with the will of God.
God’s will is not subject to popular demand.
 
vz71 said:
If many people pray for healing, it is still a question of their petition being in line with the will of God.
God’s will is not subject to popular demand.
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I’m not talking about many people praying for the healing of one person, but many people praying for the healing of many people.

Let’s say tonight that every person in the world in need of healing prayed to God to be healed. This includes people with cancer, AIDS, emphysema, heart trouble, malaria, and so on. By your reasoning each of those people will get the benefits for praying that people who don’t pray don’t get. Of those people – the vast spectrum of people in the world who need healing – would a portion of them get the healing they seek as part of those benefits?
 
vz71 said:
Same answer.
Doesn’t matter how many are praying or if they are all praying for different things.
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Let’s continue with my scenario of every person in the world praying for healing. There are over 7 billion people in the world. I’ll give a lowball number of 1 billion people seeking healing. That covers people to undergo brain surgery, women suffering post-partum depression, subsistence farmers who can barely walk let alone plow, and all sorts of different problems. You’re saying that it’s possible that God refuses healing for one billion people asking for it.

That just seems odd to me considering how often Catholics talk about healing via prayer. This site is just one example. My local EWTN radio station is WFJS. The owner of the group of stations, Jim, does a one hour weekly show and at the start of each show he makes several prayers including one to heal a young woman they know. In the August 1 episode he says before that prayer:
“And now we’ll pray our prayer for the beatification of venerable Mother Maria Kaupas; and the we’ll also pray the prayer for the miracle that we’re praying for, that the tumor on the brain stem of our young friend Maria, that by these intercessory prayers, especially through the intercession of Mother Maria Kaupas that the hand of God will be placed on that tumor and it will vanish, just by willing it it will be gone.”
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That surely sounds like some who thinks that God is willing and able to make a healing if prayed for.
 
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