Ask an Atheist

  • Thread starter Thread starter hopefully_wild
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Allnamesused said:
Of course it didn’t hurt that Constantine just declared it the official religion of the empire and that it remained the state mandated religion of Europe for a very longtime. Of course, once this stopped you observed a very stead decrease in the number of Christians throughout Europe (in addition to a very stead increase in the level of education). Christianity is now depending heavily on largely illiterate, poverty stricken third world nations (where massive procreation is only exceed by a massive inability to maintain a growing population) to avoid shrinking further into insignificance. Poverty stricken illiterates make very easy prey for missionaries. Even in the USA (Christianity’s bastion) it continues to make up a shrinking percentage of the nations population. Catholicism in the USA has managed to retain it’s overall numbers only because of the large number of Latin Americans who continue to illegally enter our nation.
Of course, before long before the end of this century Islam will the the worlds largest faith…this saddens me as I greatly greatly prefer Christian lunacy to Islamic lunacy.
Click to expand...
It doesn’t do you credit to not know history (at least quote from a reputable non-anti-catholic scholar).

Constantine did NOT make Christianity the official religion of the Empire. He issued the Edict of Milan which merely made Christianity legal (as in we’re not going to throw you to the lions anymore). And while Emperor Theodosius did make Christianity the official religion of the Empire in 380, you would note that the Empire was losing its foothold, especially in the West. Even at that time the capitol of the Empire was Constantinople (modern day Istanbul), and its influence in the West was waning. Very soon after that, the barbarian hordes - such as the Vandals - were pillaging and cutting off the West from the East. Within a few hundred years the West would be under the domain of the Franks.
 
Allnamesused said:
Of course it didn’t hurt that Constantine just declared it the official religion of the empire and that it remained the state mandated religion of Europe for a very longtime. Of course, once this stopped you observed a very stead decrease in the number of Christians throughout Europe (in addition to a very stead increase in the level of education). Christianity is now depending heavily on largely illiterate, poverty stricken third world nations (where massive procreation is only exceed by a massive inability to maintain a growing population) to avoid shrinking further into insignificance. Poverty stricken illiterates make very easy prey for missionaries. Even in the USA (Christianity’s bastion) it continues to make up a shrinking percentage of the nations population. Catholicism in the USA has managed to retain it’s overall numbers only because of the large number of Latin Americans who continue to illegally enter our nation.
Of course, before long before the end of this century Islam will the the worlds largest faith…this saddens me as I greatly greatly prefer Christian lunacy to Islamic lunacy.
Click to expand...
Prey? Poverty stricken illiterate people make easy prey?
Why do you think catholic missions are going to those places? What do these missionaries want from these people, do you think? Their ONE goat? Seriously, I ask you, what is the church seeking to gain?
 
JMJ_coder said:
It doesn’t do you credit to not know history (at least quote from a reputable non-anti-catholic scholar).

Constantine did NOT make Christianity the official religion of the Empire. He issued the Edict of Milan which merely made Christianity legal (as in we’re not going to throw you to the lions anymore). And while Emperor Theodosius did make Christianity the official religion of the Empire in 380, you would note that the Empire was losing its foothold, especially in the West. Even at that time the capitol of the Empire was Constantinople (modern day Istanbul), and its influence in the West was waning. Very soon after that, the barbarian hordes - such as the Vandals - were pillaging and cutting off the West from the East. Within a few hundred years the West would be under the domain of the Franks.
Click to expand...
This from the wiki on the first christian emperor:
*Throughout his rule, Constantine supported the Church financially, built various basilicas, granted privileges (e.g. exemption from certain taxes) to clergy, promoted Christians to high ranking offices, and returned property confiscated during the Great Persecution of Diocletian.[192] His most famous building projects include the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and Old Saint Peter’s Basilica.

The reign of Constantine established a precedent for the position of the Christian Emperor in the Church; Constantine considered himself responsible to God for the spiritual health of his subjects, and thus he had a duty to maintain orthodoxy.[193] [194] The emperor ensured that God was properly worshipped in his empire; what proper worship consisted of was for the Church to determine.[195] In 316, Constantine acted as a judge in a North African dispute concerning the heresy of the Donatists. After making a decision against the Donatists, Constantine led an army of Christians against Christians. After 300 years of pacifism, this was the first intra-Christian persecution. More significantly, in 325 he summoned the Council of Nicaea, effectively the first Ecumenical Council (unless the Council of Jerusalem is so classified), to deal mostly with the heresy of Arianism. Constantine also enforced the prohibition of the First Council of Nicaea against celebrating Easter on the day before the Jewish Passover (14 Nisan) (see Quartodecimanism and Easter controversy).[196]*

I’d say he made Christianity Rome’s official faith.
 
yellowbicycle said:
Prey? Poverty stricken illiterate people make easy prey?
Why do you think catholic missions are going to those places? What do these missionaries want from these people, do you think? Their ONE goat? Seriously, I ask you, what is the church seeking to gain?
Click to expand...
Significance. The church is attempt to remain significant. The realization that as prosperity and education continue to rise in Europe they’ll need to find a new source of for members. A poor substitute I’ll grant, but better than nothing.
 
This thread has somehow be hi-jacked. Let’s get back to the origional ask ‘hopefully wild’ a question. If you guys want to debate what atheism is/is not or other things why don’t you start your own thread. Some of us want to hear from HW without having to go through 20 or 30 other posts.
 
40.png
CatsAndDogs:
Rubbish. 🙂 <said with a smile!>

You believed in the omnipotence of “Mom” and/or “Dad”, which no doubt was rapidly obliterated as a belief.
Click to expand...
That was a learned belief.
40.png
CatsAndDogs:
But that belief was your first, other than the more general, “I have no idea what’s going on but I have to trust in ‘the environment’ to be benevolent or I’ll go entirely insane!”, which was also quickly semi-obliterated, but which left it’s “mark” on you which was the “hint” that God gave you that He would take care of you as was best for you to be taken care of in a place which is not for your comfort but rather for your edification.

That “mark” is the “God shaped hole” which you will hear, or have already heard, so much about around here. 🙂

:shamrock2:
Click to expand...
That, also, was a learned belief.
 
Allnamesused said:
This from the wiki on the first christian emperor:
*Throughout his rule, Constantine supported the Church financially, built various basilicas, granted privileges (e.g. exemption from certain taxes) to clergy, promoted Christians to high ranking offices, and returned property confiscated during the Great Persecution of Diocletian.[192] His most famous building projects include the Church of the Holy Sepulchre and Old Saint Peter’s Basilica.

The reign of Constantine established a precedent for the position of the Christian Emperor in the Church; Constantine considered himself responsible to God for the spiritual health of his subjects, and thus he had a duty to maintain orthodoxy.[193] [194] The emperor ensured that God was properly worshipped in his empire; what proper worship consisted of was for the Church to determine.[195] In 316, Constantine acted as a judge in a North African dispute concerning the heresy of the Donatists. After making a decision against the Donatists, Constantine led an army of Christians against Christians. After 300 years of pacifism, this was the first intra-Christian persecution. More significantly, in 325 he summoned the Council of Nicaea, effectively the first Ecumenical Council (unless the Council of Jerusalem is so classified), to deal mostly with the heresy of Arianism. Constantine also enforced the prohibition of the First Council of Nicaea against celebrating Easter on the day before the Jewish Passover (14 Nisan) (see Quartodecimanism and Easter controversy).[196]*

I’d say he made Christianity Rome’s official faith.
Click to expand...
First off, wikipedia is considered a joke among any credible scholar - in any field.

Second, just because Constantine supported the Church doesn’t mean he made it official. There is a difference between supporting a religion (which almost every modern government still does to one degree or another) and declaring it official.
 
hopefully_wild said:
I’d like to make a blanket statement. The purpose of this thread is NOT to defend my beliefs as an atheist, and so I do not wish to go over all the arguments. I’ve been there before as I’m sure all of you have as well. The purpose of this thread was simply to answer any questions anyone might have about me and my life and my views on atheism. That sort of thing. I’m not up for any debates, I’ve been through them all and I guess you could say I’m burnt out. So please, no more challenges. I thank you ahead of time.
Click to expand...
A few questions:

Can I just ask what you hope to get out of this?

What is so great about you not believing in God that we would want to know why you don’t?

Why do you need us to ask you a question about your non belief? I mean, everyone knows more atheists than believers, so why should your viewpoint matter?

Your non-belief would be the same-old, same-old that we would have heard from countless others. So what makes you so special?

Hhmm, is there an insecurity there? A little boy yelling hey look at me!

🙂
 
How do you make out atheism to be sort of in the same category as a religion? I understand it to be sort of like the negation of religion - I guess I can’t understand, if you’re an atheist, why you’d even bother with a discussion about religion.

I guess an analogy, a bad one, but it’s the only one I have at this time, is that I’m against having ants in my house. So, I try to keep the place sprayed and otherwise don’t even bother with thinking about ants.

just my two cents…and I’m glad you started this thread…many blessings to you…
 
Allnamesused said:
Do I have standards, yes. They are based upon the fact that I realize that we are all in this together and that my and all of our success in this world depends upon our ability to successfully integrate ourselves into the community. We need to make our community as strong and healthy as we possibly can…as this will benefit us all. This is true whether there is a god or not. I also believe that people who behave selfishly and cruelly end up making a lot of enemies…I don’t like having enemies. It’s hard to make it through life when everyone hates you. I do have this innate desire to see all of us do well in this life, I suspect that this just means I was brought up well.
Click to expand...
First no one believes in Right and wrong as entities except the ancients who believed each consept was represented by a god. Yes human beings are a type of pack or herd animal where we need to get along which is an extention of family structures to society. My question of Right and Wrong is this how are such things determined? How is Justice determined? Why the human need for Fairness. According to evolution, we don’t evolve this way. Our evolution process is primarily the strongest survies, the craftiest survies the weak die out. So how do humans have this consept of fairness or justice or right or wrong.

As far as we need to work together then from that perspective what ever society says we should follow because we are in tune with society. Yet we don’t find this behavior. Did you ever hear of the saying “you can’t make everybody happy all of the time?” You will always have enemies no matter how nice you are. Also from this perspective. How do you determine which is Right when societies clash?
 
Allnamesused said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post
I - k n o w - y o u !

Your “new” here, again, aren’t you!?

Good to have your “stimulating” person-ness back, St. Doubting Wannabe-Thomas!

I would gladdly claim to be this indidual you mentioned. Believe it or not, there is more than one person how does not think as you do.
Click to expand...
I know THAT well enough! 🙂

<chuckle, chuckle, chuckle, chuckle!>

…good to see’ya!

:shamrock2:
 
Allnamesused said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAndDogs View Post

So, you’re OK with murder?
And you’re OK with violence to spousal relationships?
And you’re OK with denying reality?
You’re OK with injustice?
You’re OK with truth being called untruth?
And you’re OK with people being chaste if they want to be?
You’re OK with being a robot?
And you’re OK with saying the universe possesses no underlying orderliness?

Why are you OK with these things?

Since you don’t understand why it is that we believe as we do, and assume that there can’t POSSIBLY be any good reasons for believing what we believe, we’re just “weird” and “crazy”?

Even for an atheist, or from your perspective, especially coming FROM an atheist, isn’t that a bit “unreasonable” for one who supposedly prizes “reasonableness” so highly?

I don’t think I could have made my point any better than you just did. Thinks for not acting wierd and crazy.
Click to expand...
So, you ARE OK with all those things!?

:shamrock2:
 
Allnamesused said:
Even then, if your “belief” is based solely upon a what if scenario, then do you really believe? Imagine I approached you and said “Do you believe in Santa Claus”? You of course say “No”. Then I say, “I’ll give you $10 if you believe in Santa”. Now if you say “Sure! for ten dollars I’ll believe in Santa. Whatever you want”. In that situation could it be said that you really believe in Santa? Of course not. The same is true if you claim to believe in a god simply to avoid going to hell just in case he actually exists. Keep in mind, if the Moslems or right wing xtians are correct all you Catholics are still going to hell. The very definition of damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
Click to expand...
I don’t get it. Your profile says you are Roman Catholic, but you keep trashing the Catholics. What’s the deal?:confused:
 
sambos671 said:
First no one believes in Right and wrong as entities except the ancients who believed each consept was represented by a god. Yes human beings are a type of pack or herd animal where we need to get along which is an extention of family structures to society. My question of Right and Wrong is this how are such things determined? How is Justice determined? Why the human need for Fairness. According to evolution, we don’t evolve this way. Our evolution process is primarily the strongest survies, the craftiest survies the weak die out. So how do humans have this consept of fairness or justice or right or wrong.
Click to expand...
How is right and wrong determined? Well, I know that being hit in the head with a rock would hurt and I’m certain that it hurts other people as well. I would prefer to live in a society where people don’t go about hitting each other in the head rocks. Furthermore, if I go about hitting people with rocks, I can expect some unpleasant repercussions…I don’t like unpleasant repressions. I determine right and wrong on basically the same principle. If it’s bad for me then it’s probably bad for society as a whole. I am a member of my particular society and understand that it’s health contributes to my health and wellbeing. As far as your evolution question is concerned, it’s not the survival of a single individual that matters but rather the survival of the entire species. Our particular species increases it’s survivability (and happiness) when it co-exists peacefully. I’m not saying that there is no God, but I am saying that morality can exist without one.
 
CHRISTINE77 said:
I don’t get it. Your profile says you are Roman Catholic, but you keep trashing the Catholics. What’s the deal?:confused:
Click to expand...
I’ve been over this before, Catholic is the default. I failed to change it and there is no option to do so retroactively.
 
JMJ_coder said:
Constantine did NOT make Christianity the official religion of the Empire. He issued the Edict of Milan which merely made Christianity legal (as in we’re not going to throw you to the lions anymore).
Click to expand...
I am really dumbfounded how people can still believe and peddle this lie in the age of the internet.

A protestant friend of mine threw that accusation at me one time during a heated argument. And he had already done 4 years of Theology at a protestant seminary.

I wonder what sort of rubbish they get taught. Surely someone in the faculty would have already found out the truth about something that simple by now.

When I pointed this out to him he said it didn’t matter.

Hhmm Truth is always the first casualty.
 
benedictus2 said:
I am really dumbfounded how people can still believe and peddle this lie in the age of the internet.

A protestant friend of mine threw that accusation at me one time during a heated argument. And he had already done 4 years of Theology at a protestant seminary.

I wonder what sort of rubbish they get taught. Surely someone in the faculty would have already found out the truth about something that simple by now.

When I pointed this out to him he said it didn’t matter.

Hhmm Truth is always the first casualty.
Click to expand...
He may not have officially declared that it was the official religion but it undeniably made it the religion of the Roman state.
 
Allnamesused said:
I’ve been over this before, Catholic is the default. I failed to change it and there is no option to do so retroactively.
Click to expand...
Ummm…we’ve been over this before. It doesn’t default to anything. You MUST enter Catholic for it to say Catholic. It doesn’t default that way.

To change it:

**1) Go to your profile.
  1. On the left hand side there are several options in the Control Panel. The first section is called Settings and Options. The third option is Edit Profile.
  2. Click on that.
  3. Scroll down. At the bottom there is a section called Additional Information. The third line is Religion.
  4. Click in the (name removed by moderator)ut box.
  5. Type in your true religion.
  6. Go to the bottom and click Save Changes. **
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top