Ask me anything about the Baha'i Faith

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Raxus said:
Mohammed advocated for marrying children and killing people who do not believe in Islam. If his “essence” is the same as Jesus’, why did Jesus uphold laws condemning what Mohammed condoned?
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Thanks Raxus for your post!

I think at least one part of your post that would concern me is where you state that “Muhammad advocated for marrying children”. I’m unsure of your source? Some believe He married Aisha when she was very young. In my view this was based on a Hadith that was collected after two centuries. There was no universal calendar in use in Arabia so ages of people were uncertain until Caliph Umar ordered the Hijra calendar. Another Hadith from the same collection has Aisha older.

As to “killing people who did not believe in Islam” this too could be based on a misreading or oversimplification:

For Baha’is “Jihad” has been blotted from the Book:

In the Tablet of Glad Tidings (Bisharat), Baha’u’llah writes

“O people of the earth! The first Glad-Tidings which the Mother Book hath, in this Most Great Revelation, imparted unto all the peoples of the world is that the law of holy war hath been blotted out from the Book. …In former religions such ordinances as holy war, destruction of books, the ban on association and companionship with other peoples or on reading certain books had been laid down and affirmed according to the exigencies of the time; however, in this mighty Revelation…. His infallible decree hath prescribed that which We have set forth above.”
 
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arthra said:
I think at least one part of your post that would concern me is where you state that “Muhammad advocated for marrying children”. I’m unsure of your source?
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Traditional sources, like Ibn Hisham, state that the man consummated his marriage to the girl when she was 10 and he was in his 50s, if I recall.
arthra said:
As to “killing people who did not believe in Islam” this too could be based on a misreading or oversimplification:
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Could be, but it’s not, given that it’s still a strong component of traditional Islam today.

So, I ask again: How could Jesus be of the same “essence” as a pedophile and advocate of murder?
 
Raxus said:
So, I ask again: How could Jesus be of the same “essence” as a pedophile and advocate of murder?
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Thanks again for your post… I think your allegations of “pedophilia” and “advocate of murder” are out of place on this forum.

Your “recall” may need a reboot as the ages of these significant characters in early Islam are not accurate I’ll share with you some of the sources that I have for the supposed ages:

Volume 1, Book 8, Number 465:

Narrated 'Aisha:

(the wife of the Prophet) I had seen my parents
following Islam since I attained the age of
puberty. Not a day passed but the Prophet
visited us, both in the mornings and evenings. My
father Abii Bakr thought of building a mosque in
the courtyard of his house and he did so. He
used to pray and recite the Qur’án in it. The
pagan women and their children used to stand by
him and look at him with surprise. Abu Bakr was
a Softhearted person and could not help weeping
while reciting the Quran. The chiefs of the
Quraish pagans became afraid of that (i.e. that
their children and women might be affected by
the recitation of Quran)."

(Hadith, Bukhari Vol 1)

This clearly indicates that Aisha was living with her parents in Mecca even after she attained puberty and that the Prophet used to visit them there. Muhammad left Mecca in 622 A.D. and all accounts agree that the marriage was not consummated until two years after the hijra, around 624 A.D.

Most sources also agree that Muhammad was married to Khadijih for at least twenty years, a monogamous marriage was unusual at that time.

But as this is a thread regarding Baha’i Faith let me assert here that the minimum age for marriage is fifteen years of age. There’s more about our marriage laws if anyone is interested
 
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arthra said:
Thanks again for your post… I think your allegations of “pedophilia” and “advocate of murder” are out of place on this forum.
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Why?
arthra said:
This clearly indicates that Aisha was living with her parents in Mecca even after she attained puberty and that the Prophet used to visit them there. Muhammad left Mecca in 622 A.D. and all accounts agree that the marriage was not consummated until two years after the hijra, around 624 A.D.
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This still doesn’t mean she wasn’t a child.
arthra said:
But as this is a thread regarding Baha’i Faith let me assert here that the minimum age for marriage is fifteen years of age. There’s more about our marriage laws if anyone is interested
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One: Ew.
Two: Do the “laws” of the Baha’i supersede the laws of the country that they live in?
 
As a Baha’i I also wanted to indicate here some of the issues of the comparative histories of Jesus and Muhammad. They lived in very different societies.

Jesus’ public ministry as far as we know lasted for some years. Judea and surrounding areas were occupied by Rome probably the most powerful empire of its time… The Legions were marching over the Holy Land. Jesus proposed what today would be a kind of passive resistance to the Roman occupiers… Pay your taxes… turn the other cheek if slapped… carry a burden an extra mile … and so on.

Muhammad’s ministry last a little over twenty years. The first six years He was maligned and His followers were persecuted and scorned. A boycott of goods of the Hashimite tribe occurred. Later Muslims migrated to Ethiopia for refuge. After a attempt was made to kill Muhammad the community fled to Medina. The pagan Meccans attacked attempting to destroy the new faith in Medina.

There are significant differences. The new community of Muslims required defense… They responded to being attacked and eventually were able to defeat the pagan forces.

As I posted earlier Baha’is do not have “Holy Wars” or “Crusades” in our Faith. We are non-partisan politically… Do not attack other religions… We believe in disarmament and a world parliament to resolve issues.
 
Revelation

Manifestations of God

Throughout the ages, humanity’s spiritual, intellectual and moral capacities have been cultivated by the Founders of the great religions, among them Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus Christ, Muhammad, and—in more recent times—the Báb and Bahá’u’lláh.

These Figures are not simply ordinary people with a greater knowledge than others. Rather they are Manifestations of God, Who have exerted an incomparable influence on the evolution of human society. While each of Them has a distinct individuality and a definite mission, the Manifestations of God all share in a single, divinely-ordained purpose—to “educate the souls of men, and refine the character of every living man…”

The Manifestation of God is the light-bringer of the world. Like the arrival of spring, His coming releases a fresh outpouring of spirit into creation and has a universal effect. When humanity has entered its “winter,” this new “sun” appears above the horizon and “shines upon the worlds of spirits, of thoughts and of hearts…” Then, “the spiritual spring and new life appear, the power of the wonderful springtime becomes visible, and marvelous benefits are apparent.”

http://www.bahai.org/beliefs/god-his-creation/revelation/manifestations-god
 
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Raxus said:
Two: Do the “laws” of the Baha’i supersede the laws of the country that they live in?
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Baha’is respect the laws of the country they live in. As an example the Baha’i Faith is not recognized in China so other than having some personal meetings we have no administrative institutions there. I have a friend in China who had to travel to Macao where the Faith is recognized so they could be married. For a time the Faith was outlawed in the Soviet Union. There were no administrative institutions there for years. Today the Faith is recognized in Russia. I have another friend who served on their National Spiritual Assembly.
If Baha’is are drafted into the military we request non-combative assignments… and so on.
 
@arthra : Thank you for the time and effort invested in your reply.
 
Since we have had no reply on my second query as to whether Bahá’u’lláh called himself the Spirit of Truth whom Christ promised God the Father would send us two pertinent excerpts from bahai-library.com are presented below (bolds mine).
"The Bahá’í writings explain the station of Bahá’u’lláh:

“To Israel He was neither more nor less than the incarnation of the 'Everlasting Father,’ the ‘Lord of Hosts’… to Christendom Christ returned ‘in the glory of the Father’, to Shi’ah Islam the return of the Imam Husayn; to Sunni Islam the descent of the “Spirit of God”; to the Zoroastrians the promised Shah-Bahram; to the Hindus the reincarnation of Krishna; to the Buddhists the fifth Buddha (Maitreya, the Buddha of universal fellowship).”

The name Bahá’u’lláh means ‘the Glory of God’ or ‘Glory of the Lord’. This title is mentioned in many prophecies:

“To Him Isaiah, the greatest of the Jewish prophets, had alluded as the ‘Glory of the Lord’, the ‘Everlasting Father’, the 'Prince of Peace’, the ‘Wonderful’, the 'Counsellor’.”
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. . . and . . .
The name Bahá’u’lláh means ‘the Glory of God’ or ‘Glory of the Lord’. This title is mentioned in many prophecies in the Holy Books.

Bahá’ís believe that Bahá’u’lláh is the Prince of Peace promised to the Jews by Isaiah, the Spirit of Truth promised by Christ as His Return.
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Links



As Catholics we cannot accept these errors. To do so would be blasphemous.
 
Could someone knowledgable in the Baha’i Faith please respond to my questions? Thank you kindly.
 
drz888 said:
Put simply, if we matched the Nicene Creed against summaries of other faith types, there are so many differences between faith types that using logic and reason, how is it possible that all of these faith types could be true through the lens of progressive revelation?
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They make it work. 🙂
 
It is a central and primary tenet of Christianity that Jesus was resurrected bodily. This was a unique event, never before recorded in Scripture. While those writings mention dead bodies that were brought back to life and humans whose living bodies ascended into Heaven, none mention the vanishing of a person’s corpse. But that is exactly what we find in the Gospels. Jesus’ corpse vanished from the inside of His sealed and guarded tomb. Then the Gospels record His living appearance in the flesh. He ate, drank, and allowed His body to be touched.

The prophet Baha’u’llah never contradicted these events, but his son, Abdul’Baha, definitely did. He denied this central tenet of Christianity in a series of essays titled “Some Answered Questions.” This contradiction needs to be addressed and not just swept under the rug with platitudes such as “Baha’is believe Christ’s resurrection to be ‘spiritual.’”

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-23.html

Adul’Baha mentions “science” in this article as if to imply that the Resurrection of Jesus in the flesh would have been a scientific impossibility. But since 1988 the world has had scientific evidence that our Lord’s corpse really did vanish from the inside of His burial Shroud.**

I believe that the Baha’i Faith has some very important lessons to offer the world. Its insistence on clinging to Adul’Baha’s outdated and disproven postulations hinders the Christian world from accepting these good ideas. If we were all members of the Baha’i Faith then, perhaps, we would now have a bona-fide world government and would not be facing the unprecedented calamity of global nuclear war.

**TEST THE SHROUD, Antonacci, 2015
 
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undead_rat said:
I believe that the Baha’i Faith has some very important lessons to offer the world. Its insistence on clinging to Adul’Baha’s outdated and disproven postulations hinders the Christian world from accepting these good ideas. If we were all members of the Baha’i Faith then, perhaps, we would now have a bona-fide world government and would not be facing the unprecedented calamity of global nuclear war.
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Interesting summation of your post … You don’t need to be members of the Faith though to work for world peace and a world parliament, that’s why we as Baha’is support and encourage inter-faith activities on the local and international levels!
 
Techno2000 said:
Put simply, if we matched the Nicene Creed against summaries of other faith types, there are so many differences between faith types that using logic and reason, how is it possible that all of these faith types could be true through the lens of progressive revelation?
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Shoghi Effendi many years ago offered the Baha’i view of Christianity which you may not be familiar with so I’ll share it here…

“As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its Divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the Divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended. The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Bahá’u’lláh as the ‘Spirit of God’, is proclaimed as the One Who ‘appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost’, and is even extolled as the ‘Essence of the Spirit’. His mother is described as ‘that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous countenance’, and the station of her Son eulogized as a ‘station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth,’ whilst Peter is recognized as one whom God has caused ‘the mysteries of wisdom and of utterance of flow out of his mouth.’”

~ Shoghi Effendi: The Promised Day is Come, pp. 113-114

You are also welcome to explore the following:

 
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arthra said:
… You don’t need to be members of the Faith though to work for world peace and a world parliament, that’s why we as Baha’is support and encourage inter-faith activities on the local and international levels!
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I sometimes mention the idea of a world government here on CAF, and I encounter a great deal of resistance to this idea from the members of this forum. The ideas of the Baha’i Faith are desperately needed here.
But Abdul’baha’s essays on the Resurrection and on miracles create an unnecessary barrier between Christians and Baha’is. His statements on these subjects are unacceptable and even offensive to most Christians. I do not understand why the Baha’i Faith continues to validate these obviously erroneous statements. Furthermore, it appears that Abdul’baha invented his theories on resurrection and miracles of Jesus entirely on his own. I have never been able to find any statement by the prophet, Baha’u’llah, that would support them in any way.
Incredible as it may seem, it appears that the Baha’i Faith gives precedence to Abdul’baha’s theories over that given to Baha’u’llah who wrote that the Christian Gospels stood correct and valid as written.

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-23.html

http://reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/saq-22.html
 
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arthra said:
Thanks “undead rat” for citing the above passages from Some Answered Questions and yes they do represent Baha’i views on the subject.
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Science has now proved that these passages and views are erroneous.


That does not change the fact that Baha’u’llah was the messiah of Islam and that he gave Islam a message that the whole world ought to pay attention to. In fact, the world’s failure to heed his teachings is going to result in nothing less than global nuclear war.
 
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I think Mohammed very well said: أنا خاتم الأنبياء والمرسلين
So I think Mohammed wouldn’t have obliged to any other messengers coming after himself, but what does it matter from a false prophet to another false prophet, Jesus beats them all.
 
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Masihi said:
So I think Mohammed wouldn’t have obliged to any other messengers coming after himself, but what does it matter from a false prophet to another false prophet, Jesus beats them all.
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Masihi,

Thanks for posting Masihi! Believe what you wish!

For Baha’is the “Seal” of the Prophets means Muhammad had a seal of authenticity but was not the end of future Prophets appearing to guide us. Around the early nineteenth century Muslims were looking for ward to the appearance of the Mihdi. Some Christians later known as Millerites expected that Christ would return in 1844. Our Faith began with the declaration of the Bab in 1260 AH or 1844 AD in the Gregorian calendar.
 
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