Ask me anything about the Baha'i Faith

[arthra]

Nice to meet you again Uzbek!

Actually we were conversing before on this Forum back about nine years ago.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

It’s Usbek:sunglasses:

 

[Damian]

How do you know when someone is a messenger of god?
What makes someone a messenger of god verse a messenger of their own discovered truth that they came to themselves?
How do you know that someone is a messenger of a demigod, the devil, an archangel, etc., and not the god?
How do you know when someone is just being a human that discovered a truth that you particularly really like and no deity was involved in it?
How do you know when someone is a messenger of god and the message is something you fundamentally disagree with?
How can you distinguish between any of the above messengers other than you wanting them to be separated up by how you would prefer them to be?

 

[devinrose]

By studying the writings and recognizing their beauty we can grow closer to god. at the risk of angering people, I could ask the same questions about Jesus.
We know through prayer, through rational proofs, through reading the Writings.

 

[Damian]

Can you give me an example of the application of:

prayer, through rational proofs, through reading the Writings.

where we could conclude that instead of the person just being a person with wisdom we personally agree with? How can these processes distinguish between wise people and messenger people and messenger people of the deity?

 

[undead_rat]

In ancient times miracles were necessary to bring the Teachings of Moses and Jesus to the attention of the populace. In the modern world we have the education necessary to recognize a true religious teacher simply on the basis of what that person has said or written and on the kind of life that he led. I recognize Baha’u’llah in that regard and find nothing that he taught to be in conflict with our Christian Gospels. Rather, he shows us how Jesus’ teachings should be applied to the modern world.
Ideas such as: national patriotism must give way to international brotherhood, and the worship of liberty leads to sedition, the only true liberty is obedience to God’s Laws are profound, relevant, and, to my mind, evidence of prophetic insight.

 

[undead_rat]

By studying the writings and recognizing their beauty we can grow closer to god. at the risk of angering people, I could ask the same questions about Jesus.

All over the internet these days we find challenges to the idea that Jesus even existed as a person, or, if He did exist, that He worked any miracles, or that He actually returned as a living, breathing person after His death. Even your own valid religion has been burdened with the insinuation of these types of challenges against Jesus.

But we have a wonderful counter to these incorrect ideas, and that counter is Jesus’ miraculous Image on His burial Shroud which is proven to have been created by the disappearance of His corpse into another dimension. Perhaps someday Baha’is will take their heads out of the sand in regards to this amazing object.

 

[Damian]

Okay, but I don’t see how you addressed my question. In the past, there were miracles that people ascribed to the messenger’s deity and thus concluded that the claims of this person were not wisdom but divine communication through a messenger. Okay, few problems with that. Why didn’t the deity just tell everyone and bypass the messenger all together and show miracles for everyone. Make everyone a messenger, per say. The problem with the “messenger” method is that it setups a hierarchy within this tribal system where the deity has its chosen favorites. So if some charlatan comes along and just convinces people that she is a chosen favorite of this tribe’s deity, they immediately gain social control over those people in the status of a priest class, shaman, etc.

In the modern world we have the education necessary to recognize a true religious teacher simply on the basis of what that person has said or written and on the kind of life that he led.

Okay, so to my question, with what you listed here, can you give me an example of the application of this process where we could conclude that instead of the person just being a person with wisdom we personally agree with? How can these processes distinguish between wise people and messenger people and messenger people of the deity? How does this method solve that problem I find in this process stated above?

 

[undead_rat]

Many religious teachers have arisen in the last 200 years in the Christian Faith. None of them compared to the sanctity and wisdom of Baha’u’llah. None of them called for a world government or condemned the worship of freedom, or placed international brotherhood over national patriotism.
I find both the life and the teachings of Mirzah Husayn Ali to be profound above far above all these others, and that is why I accept his station as the messiah of Islam who brings teachings relevant to the whole world.

 

[arthra]

I’m attaching an article here on miracles attributed to the Bab, Baha’u’llah and Abdul-Baha for those interested:

http://www.ninestarsolutions.com/famous-miracles-in-the-bahai-faith/

Again… we as Baha’is do not make them as central to our teachings as do some earlier religions.

God has always sent His Messengers and Prophets this has been the Divine process found in the past scriptures …