Ask Me Anything: Muslim Edition

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Is there any significance to praying on a carpet? Or, is this merely a convenience?
 
Thankyou for your honesty,openness and candour.
Sorry if this has been touched on before as there are over 600 posts but my question would be how are you ok,as a woman,following a religion that has a perceived gender inequality in the fact that Muslim men are allowed multiple wives (up to 4) but women are not allowed multiple husbands?

I understand the historical context and can understand that in Mohammed’s day this might have actually been beneficial for women because women didn’t work and they and any potential children they had needed to be provided for.
I also understand that men were only permitted to do so providing that they could provide for all their wives fairly and equally.

What I don’t get though,is any relevance for today’s times.
In today’s times there are no circumstances where having more than one wife could be acceptable.There are no financial circumstances for this.
So how come it is still permissible for Muslim men to have more than one wife in **today’s time**?

I get that in many countries,in a practical sense,it is not often done and most men just have one wife but why wouldn’t Imans just outright plainly state that’s it’s no longer permissible in Islam as it has no relevance to modern times?

I have never received a good answer to this.I have heard some Muslim women who are in multiple wife marriages try to justify it by saying things like women are the weaker sex,or women are the moral virtuous and moral sex(!) (Ie:that men are more likely to be unfaithful by nature so they are allowed multiple wives),or that the husband treats them equally and that they are “one big happy family”…
Realistically though,none of these reasonings are sound or hold any weight.
 
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How about the long robes worn by islamic men? There seems to be a lot of exceptions for wearing them, but I see the muslim men selling incense and newspapers wearing them, and it doesn’t really seem practical when working at an intersection.
 
Sorry, not to steal your thunder, Shazirah. I just wanted to share my view. I am thinking that the long robes (if we’re thinking of the same ones) are probably a cultural/regional/traditional clothing rather than a religious one, kind of like why ranchers wear boots and cowboy hats: a sense of pride of one’s culture/heritage… But of course, I may be totally wrong on this, so I am eager to hear from Shazirah as well. The muslim men I have befriended (a Lebanese, a Moroccan, an Iranian, Pakistanis, a Malian, Malays, Indonesians) do not wear these in daily life. I have only seen them at cultural fairs, at their homes, sometimes at the mosque. I have not seen my Malay and Indonesian friends wear these at all, which leads me to believe these are a middle eastern/north african regional clothing?
 
Cleanliness is important in prayer, so in addition to the washing rituals before prayer we’re supposed to pray in a clean place. Using a prayer rug keeps you from contacting anything on the ground that may be unclean while praying. Rugs are also good for new converts because the design on many of them is a reminder about how prayer is supposed to be conducted. There’s usually a pointed design near the front to point towards Mecca and decorative areas where the hands are supposed to go when bowing. Also, they create a sort of sacred space to help put you in the proper attitude for prayer.
 
CandleFlame said:
I have not seen my Malay and Indonesian friends wear these at all, which leads me to believe these are a middle eastern/north african regional clothing?
Click to expand...
The muslim men I have seen wearing the robes have been mostly African American men, definitely not of middle eastern descent
 
I think there are still valid reasons why a man would want or need to have more than one wife, but they may be difficult to understand in Western cultures. In most Islamic cultures, having male heirs is still very important for the continuation of the family line and property inheritance, and being a collectivist culture, family continuity is both socially and economically very important. If a man loves his wife, but they have fertility issues or they only have daughters or any number of other problems that can arise, then it would be cruel to force him to choose between his duty to his family and his love for his wife. So, multiple wives are allowed to ensure the continuation of the family. A woman having multiple husbands doesn’t accomplish the same aim, as it would complicate the matter of paternity and the same problems would exist.

There is also the acknowledgement that the majority of men and women differ in their sexual needs. Women often desire less sex, especially after having children, which can leave husbands frustrated and which can lead to sin. But, women should also not have to have sex as a form of drudgery either. So, we have some options available to promote peace within the family. If a man has multiple wives, he is required to treat them equally and he is also required to be sexually available to both, so for the majority of people, having more than one wife is not a tenable situation and that’s one reason why your average Muslim person doesn’t pursue it even in places where its legal. For some people, though, it works out quite well. It’s just a way to balance human needs in a halal way.
 
It’s mostly a cultural thing. People tend to wear what’s practical for them at the time, so in the Middle East you see a mix of people in Western attire and in traditional thobes and shalwar kameez depending on the situation. Generally both men and women are supposed to dress modestly with the arms and legs covered and for prayer we’re supposed to wear loose-fitting clothing. Very orthodox people tend to wear traditional clothing more because it satisfies those two criteria best, especially when going to mosque.
 
Thanks for your response.
However,unfortunately your explanations and reasoning actually further reinforce more that Islam (when practiced in its totality) is a religion constituting gender inequality.

Firstly you mentioned cultural reasons/appeal to tradition (family line,inheritance).
While it’s no secret that most Middle Eastern countries are paternalistic in nature,just because something has been done culturally for a long time doesn’t make that thing right.
It’s not hard to understand,it’s just not justifiable.
Sometimes certain cultural practices have to change.
Keep in mind I say this not as someone who is ignorant,mindless or perplexed by other cultures but rather I say this as a Bosnian catholic woman where there are also Muslims in my culture.
Also in my nationality/background it is a combination of collectivist and individualist society so I understand about the responsibilities of extended family.

Often there is a connection between extreme collectiveness societies and extreme poverty so perhaps this sort of reasoning may be justifiable in a very poor country like Yemen amongst tribal people where it’s highly unlikely they will be changing mentalities anytime soon.
In a society such as this,perhaps some people might reason that it’s “ok” for a husband to take a second wife if the first wife has only gave birth to daughters and the next wife might give birth to a son and therefor the inheritance will be increased due to the male child/greater financial responsibilities he has.

Re:family line:Generally when a daughter has children,she is also continuing her parents family line so I can’t see this as justification for having more than one wife.
Correct me if I’m wrong,but I thought that in Islam women don’t even take the husband’s surname but keep their own?

Catholics see infertility not as being justification for multiple wives.
To Catholics this would be considered an “offence” against the dignity of women.
The couple would be encouraged to seek treatment (except ivf is considered immoral similar like the concept of haram in Islam).
If they still couldn’t conceive,it’s encouraged to adopt abandoned children and unite themselves with Jesus’ suffering on the cross.
 
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I agree that often men can have a greater sexual desire then women but this isn’t always the case.
Sometimes females can have a greater sexual drive so when this instance does occur-is it permittable for that particular woman to marry a second husband?
Do you see this as a contradiction that in this instance that woman would not be allowed to have a second husband?
How can it be justified that a man can,(even if we agree that it’s often men with a higher sexual desire),but if/when a woman was in the same circumstances she can’t?
Can you see this is a flaw in reasoning?

In reality,when ive seen it applied in practice,I have rarely seen it being done due to reasons/justifications you mentioned of inheritance or fertility (except in very poor areas).
The examples that I have seen are usually due to selfishness.
The man looks at his wives merely as “things of beauty” instead of seeing them as whole people with dignity.
It’s like he feels bored of his first wife like “yes I love her,yes she’s a good woman but I want something new,a new object of beauty,a new shiny toy”.
Yes he may provide for them financially equally,yes he may share his time and his bed equally,but are he and his wives really equals?
These sort of mentalities and allowance of more than one spouse cheapen relationships between men and women and they devalue the sanctity of marriage.

Catholic Christians believe that God gave men and women an equal personal dignity.
That is why polygamy-especially one way only polygamy-is not a acceptable catholic practice.

I don’t know if you would be interested or not but I will link a couple of links below just in case if you are in anyway curious in understanding the Catholic viewpoints.

https://www.osv.com/Magazines/TheCa...18/ArticleID/13156/Polygamy-in-the-Bible.aspx
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P86.HTM#-2EP
(number 2400)
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm
(number 1645)
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c3a7.htm
(number 2387)
http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/_P87.HTM
 
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Are there any direct social obligations to society in Islamic societies?
If there is something binding upon all such as in the pricing policy in the food markets? access to health care? education for all?

Why in some developed Islamic societies still, women are not encouraged to get an education?

What age is acceptable for marriage?

Why in many families is the opinion of parents, and especially the father, when entering into marriage extremely important?
 
Sorry you feel that way, but as a feminist (albeit not of the melodramatic Tumblrina school of fourth wave feminism) I’ve never felt unequal in Islam. Islam reinforces the equality and dignity of men and women while acknowledging that we have different biological and social concerns that have to be accommodated. As far as culture, while cultural change is sometimes necessary, there’s really no compelling reason in my experience to change this as the system tends to work out well when people make an honest effort to uphold their responsibilities. When they don’t, there are routes of correcting the situation. And it’s mostly a non-issue these days anyway.

Women do keep their “maiden” names in Islam, but children take the family name or patronymic of their father just as they do in most of the West. There’s nothing wrong with that. Your mother has an intimate bond with you already because she carried you for nine months and your father’s gift to you is your name and your lineage. Even though I’m closer to my mother’s family due to proximity, I’m proud to be part of my father’s line. Through him I can trace my lineage back to the Prophet (peace be upon him). It can be seen in a patriarchal light from the outside or it can be seen from the way we actually experience our culture from within.

To answer your question, yes, wives and husbands are equals. I’ve discussed the arrangements that go into a marriage earlier in the thread, but in practice women typically have the controlling financial share in the relationship. Men can declare unilateral divorce more easily, but divorce settlements favor women, so only the wealthy can do so with impunity. There will always be people who have no interest in cultivating righteousness, but they don’t cheapen the experience for anyone but themselves.
 
There’s no Islamic consensus on the subject since that’s a political issue rather than a religious one. Opinions vary. Most Muslims are not happy with the treatment of the Palestinians and the way things have gone down, but not necessarily against Israel existing. It’s a divisive issue. Personally, I’m fine with Israel as a homeland for the Jewish people, I just want the Palestinians either to be treated as equals or for concessions to be made to get the two-state solution off of the ground because it’s an untenable situation as it is.
 
No disrespect, but to understand how we may feel, I want you to do a thought exercise. How would you feel if someone came up and said that the Qur’an was actually corrupted and the true Qur’an is lost to history; the true Qur’an is as told by x? That all the prophets actually taught this, and not what all the copies and tradition actually say? Does it sound fantastic and stretches credibility?
 
In places where women are not encouraged to be educated, usually we’re talking about either places with a high level of poverty or ultra-ultraconservative communities where women tend to live in complete purdah. In the case of poverty, if the family can only afford to educate some children, it will usually be the sons since they will have a higher earning potential. In the case of purdah, women don’t work outside of the house, so the need for a more than basic level of education would be considered less useful than practical skills. It’s a cultural thing more than a strictly religious thing, and most of the Muslim world has serious side-eye for the groups that are hardcore about not educating women, since there is a tradition of women scholars and poets within Islam and most of the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) wives were well-educated women.

The importance of family in Islam is partially a holdover from the cultural norms that Islam grew up in. Tribal families have a certain structure that was crucial to survival in difficult climates and circumstances. The role of the father as the guardian of the family has been quite literal for most of Islamic history and respect for elders is a big part of most Muslim-majority cultures even without the influence of Islam. In the case of marriage, we consider it is just as much a social and economic contract between families as it is a commitment between two people. Parents want to be sure that the person their child is marrying is a good person who will take care of their baby, just like in any family, and there is also the consideration of being socially linked to their in-laws. A marriage is about the whole family, not just the two people getting married. Like, in my case, I know my parents have my best interests at heart and they are far and away more experienced with the practicalities of marriage and family life than I am. If they adamantly didn’t want me to marry someone, there would be a good reason for it. That’s not the case in some families, which is unfortunate, but as a general rule parents are pretty sensitive to their children’s happiness and don’t bring the ban-hammer out often in regard to marriage - my own parents being a case in point for that since my dad’s family in particular had great reservations about him marrying a Sunni.

There’s no set age under sharia for marriage, except that a consummated marriage must take place after puberty. Different schools of jurisprudence set different ages for this in practice, but a person cannot be married if they are not deemed both physically and mentally mature enough. Most schools of jurisprudence set the earliest age around 15-17 with permission of parents and the presiding imam. The Hanafi school sets it at 12 for boys and 9 for girls with oversight by the family and imam to ensure appropriate stages of development have been reached, but there are very few people in the world who would find it acceptable for anyone that age to marry. Sudan is the only Muslim-majority country I know of in which that would be legal. Most Muslim nations set the age at 18, with 15 being the very youngest with special permission.

cont.
 
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There are a lot of social obligations in Islamic societies. We’re required to pay zakat for the poor, we’re not supposed to charge interest on loans or commit any other kind of usery and it is considered an act of righteousness simply to cancel the debt of someone who clearly cannot pay it back without impoverishing themselves. There’s a whole thread of Islamic philosophy dedicated to analyzing moral practices in trade and economic matters in addition to the typical social concerns. In regards to education and healthcare, mosque communities will typically provide a basic level of education and religious education in places that are underserved by the state. Healthcare is more dependent on where you live regarding what is available specifically, but we have a general obligation to care for the sick.
 
For the same reason that there are many interpretations of any religious text, really. People over time have differed on the specific meaning and intent of certain teachings. Sometimes out of ignorance, sometimes out of an earnest desire to understand the message fully, sometimes for more profane reasons.
 
I get why it’s difficult to hear and I’m not trying to give offense or slag the Bible, just to explain our perspective and why we don’t believe the same things that Christians believe. People say all sorts of things about the Koran and Islam, but I understand they’re talking about it from a completely different worldview than mine. They don’t have the background or understanding of the subject that I’ve grown up with. I can’t be upset about that. There are too many people in the world already who let their emotional knee-jerk reaction overcome their ability to see things from the other person’s perspective. Hopefully, you guys can excuse me for not having the same background understanding of the Bible and the corresponding worldview that you have, too.

My goal here isn’t to convince you guys that Islam is the right and true religion, although I believe that it is. I feel like we can disagree about the Bible and the Koran and still be respectful of beliefs and cool with each other.
 
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