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Athanasiy
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Shazirah, is it possible to determine what is the Islamic world community’s attitude towards Russia’s participation in the Syrian conflict?
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Augustinian
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If you look at Muslim countries particularly before the Iranian revolution in the late 1970’s, the young people really adopted western ideals not just in Iran but in many locations through the muslim world.
The late Shah of Iran was very progressive in his attitudes, the Pahlavi family wore western attire. Ditto for those in Turkey even before that, Ataturk outlawing the Muslim fez.
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ratio1
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I know this and this is what I’m referring to when I said one needs to evaluate the results. Well it didn’t work did it? How did Isalmists rose to power? It is because of the failure of these Western ideals to improve their country.
I’ll reiterate my point. One size does not fit all. I’m not against democracy or these western ideals. But it doesn’t work for everyone.
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Athanasiy
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Yes, looking at the photos of Iran before the era of Imam Khomeini, it seems that the fashion of Iranians can be confused with the Italians.
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shazirah
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It really depends on who you talk to, but Russia has backed the minority Alawite-dominated government of Syria and that has definitely not sat well with most of the Muslim world for various reasons. Most people in the Middle East are inclined to bristle whenever an outside power tries to get involved in regional affairs.
It’s important to remember that the Middle East was carved up into sections by foreign powers in quite recent history with no regard for the ethnic groups, tribes, languages, and pre-colonial political boundaries, which is why things are a mess and why people in the Middle East are so opposed to any perceived Western interference. It’s going to take a couple of generations for that to start normalizing. In the mean time, the West needs to respect the right of Middle Easterners to self-determination. They get to decide what works for them and how they want to live in modernity, and if that’s not the same as the Western solution, that’s fine. That’s not to say that there aren’t some Western ideas we can benefit from, but change has to come willingly from within, not forced by an outside agent, for it to work.
It’s important to remember that the Middle East was carved up into sections by foreign powers in quite recent history with no regard for the ethnic groups, tribes, languages, and pre-colonial political boundaries, which is why things are a mess and why people in the Middle East are so opposed to any perceived Western interference. It’s going to take a couple of generations for that to start normalizing. In the mean time, the West needs to respect the right of Middle Easterners to self-determination. They get to decide what works for them and how they want to live in modernity, and if that’s not the same as the Western solution, that’s fine. That’s not to say that there aren’t some Western ideas we can benefit from, but change has to come willingly from within, not forced by an outside agent, for it to work.
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Augustinian
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There is a show on TV about the considerable number of Iranians who have come to the United States and have settled in Tehrangeles, the “Shahs of Sunset”.
Its a far cry from life under the ayatollahs today.
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shazirah
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To be fair, the Shah was basically a puppet of foreign powers and he was a terrible leader that couldn’t keep the loyalty of either his populace or his Western backers. In the process of modernization, he pretty soundly screwed the working class and middle class and was quite brutal towards dissenters. He was known to be corrupt and decadent, which had the effect of alienating both the religious Shia and the lower classes who were suffering under his reign. The current regime is worse overall, but that doesn’t make the Shah’s approach good and it’s largely the backlash over his failings and Western interference that created Iran as it is today.
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dallas_r
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What can you not eat?
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QContinuum
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Hello shazirah, thank you very much for taking the time to answer all these questions clearly.
Your statement above struck me, as it reminded me of what a friend, who is a Pakistani Muslim, told me regarding the requirement to help the poor. I wish this aspect of Islamic philosophy was emphasized more often during discussions about “What Muslims Believe.”
Is there a required percentage of income (like Christian tithing?
I know it’s hard to generalize, but how often do most Muslims practice zakat?
How do they commonly practice it? Is it usually organized through charities like soup kitchens and free medieval clinics? Or is is more of a direct thing, like handing sandwiches to the homeless in the streets?
Is there a formal process of cancelling another’s debt?
How central is zakat to being a good Muslim? Can one be in good standing without giving to the poor?
Also, it occurs to me why the Westernized secularization of young Muslims must be so disturbing. Yes, it is about a rejection of religious practice and ideals, but more, the ideals of capitalistic, individualistic, fiat-based Western societies are completely opposed to such things as “no interest/ usury financial markets” and cancelling debts to save the plight of the poor. In fact, the U.S.'s entire monetary system is based on debt–money “borrowed” into existence by the goverment from privately held banks (the Federal Reserve).
Looking at from that perspective, I can understand the apprehension and dismay the older generation would feel regarding the abandonment of Islamic principles for that of personal, individual happiness and profit.
You probably know this already, but it used to be that the Catholic Church taught very harshly against usury.
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shazirah
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For Muslims, pork, blood, and intoxicants like alcohol or drugs are haraam or explicitly forbidden. There are rules for the humane slaughter of animals (the animal has to be killed quickly, preferably with a knife, and can’t have been strangled, killed by other animals, beaten to death,etc), so we’re only supposed to eat meat that has been slaughtered in a halaal fashion.
There’s a second category of food that is makruh, or permissible but reprehensible, and that basically includes anything that according to cultural or individual discretion is considered unclean or corrupting. Muslims in some places don’t eat shrimp, for instance, because the surrounding culture considers shrimp unclean, and in most places Muslims will not eat predatory animals or birds for the same reason.
Technically speaking, we can eat anything in order to preserve life, so it’s not a choice between porkchops and starving to death if there is nothing else available or anything like that. If there’s a forbidden food mixed in with another food and we have no way of knowing, that’s also fine.
There’s a second category of food that is makruh, or permissible but reprehensible, and that basically includes anything that according to cultural or individual discretion is considered unclean or corrupting. Muslims in some places don’t eat shrimp, for instance, because the surrounding culture considers shrimp unclean, and in most places Muslims will not eat predatory animals or birds for the same reason.
Technically speaking, we can eat anything in order to preserve life, so it’s not a choice between porkchops and starving to death if there is nothing else available or anything like that. If there’s a forbidden food mixed in with another food and we have no way of knowing, that’s also fine.
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shazirah
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Zakat is one of the pillars of the faith, so if one has resources enough that they are required to pay zakat and doesn’t even make the attempt, we believe that that person is living sinfully and so must repent and make it right or be in danger of Hell.
There are several formulas for calculating zakat, but you add up all forms of yearly income, any savings, and the worth of any property or assets you own, subtract whatever debt you owe and your basic living expenses, subtract an amount equal to about 3 ounces of gold (something like $4000 the last I checked), and calculate 2.5% of what’s left over. So, if someone makes $30,000 a year with no other appreciable wealth or assets and no debt, they’ll probably be paying something like $300 - $400 a year in zakat. There are a lot of ways to contribute zakat, but most people either pay it to their mosque to help with any charitable programs or through an organization like the Islamic Relief Fund. Some people just pay it directly to someone in need in their community. Usually, I give half of my zakat to my mosque to help with the food pantry and half to an organization in my area that helps the homeless. Most Muslims at least attempt to pay some zakat, even if some may not pay as much as they technically should.
Yeah, it has baffled me a little that Christian denominations usually don’t forbid usury these days since it’s historically been forbidden in the Christian ethos and that usury is so rampant here in the US. There’s no formal process for cancelling debts in Islam, it can be as simple as just “Hey, don’t worry about paying me that money back” or as formal as issuing a financial document clearing the debt if it’s more of a formal arrangement. Debt is serious business for Muslims because it creates situations where morality can be endangered by financial necessity, so the object is that the Islamic community should do whatever is necessary to prevent people from accruing debt or help them out of debt.
There are several formulas for calculating zakat, but you add up all forms of yearly income, any savings, and the worth of any property or assets you own, subtract whatever debt you owe and your basic living expenses, subtract an amount equal to about 3 ounces of gold (something like $4000 the last I checked), and calculate 2.5% of what’s left over. So, if someone makes $30,000 a year with no other appreciable wealth or assets and no debt, they’ll probably be paying something like $300 - $400 a year in zakat. There are a lot of ways to contribute zakat, but most people either pay it to their mosque to help with any charitable programs or through an organization like the Islamic Relief Fund. Some people just pay it directly to someone in need in their community. Usually, I give half of my zakat to my mosque to help with the food pantry and half to an organization in my area that helps the homeless. Most Muslims at least attempt to pay some zakat, even if some may not pay as much as they technically should.
Yeah, it has baffled me a little that Christian denominations usually don’t forbid usury these days since it’s historically been forbidden in the Christian ethos and that usury is so rampant here in the US. There’s no formal process for cancelling debts in Islam, it can be as simple as just “Hey, don’t worry about paying me that money back” or as formal as issuing a financial document clearing the debt if it’s more of a formal arrangement. Debt is serious business for Muslims because it creates situations where morality can be endangered by financial necessity, so the object is that the Islamic community should do whatever is necessary to prevent people from accruing debt or help them out of debt.
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QContinuum
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Thank you for enlightening me on zakat!
Also, I never thought of debt as a sort-of gateway to sin. Definitely, desperation drives many poor choices.
I think the reason why many Christian churches hardly mention usury is the uncomfortable fact many of the Christians in said churches are heavily influenced by modern, secular economic schools of thought, and not by ancient prohibitions that would probably invalidate 90% of our banking and investment practices.
Also, I never thought of debt as a sort-of gateway to sin. Definitely, desperation drives many poor choices.
I think the reason why many Christian churches hardly mention usury is the uncomfortable fact many of the Christians in said churches are heavily influenced by modern, secular economic schools of thought, and not by ancient prohibitions that would probably invalidate 90% of our banking and investment practices.
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opulumpu
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Quran (Surah 4:157) rejects the killing and crucifiction of Jesus (despite thousands of historical documents and prophecies in the Old Testament) which are central to Christianity. Muslims believe that Jesus will return before the end of time. So how did Jesus die. They accept Mohammed’s claim, without question, that the Quran contains the direct and unchangeable words of God even though nobody could or can check the verasity of his claim, no witnesses; yet they do not have any issue with Surah 4:157 despite available evidence…how come. I hope you will not bring up the claim that the Bible has been corrupted.
When the Jews doubted Jesus claim that he was from God (John 14:11) he told them “Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works I do”. The miraculous works Jesus did included instantaneously curing the sick, walking on water, raising the dead, calming the sea, feeding 5,000 with only a few loaves of bread and some fish etc etc etc). What miracles did Mohammed perform that will make me or any non-Moslem believe that he was sent by God.
When the Jews doubted Jesus claim that he was from God (John 14:11) he told them “Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or else, believe because of the works I do”. The miraculous works Jesus did included instantaneously curing the sick, walking on water, raising the dead, calming the sea, feeding 5,000 with only a few loaves of bread and some fish etc etc etc). What miracles did Mohammed perform that will make me or any non-Moslem believe that he was sent by God.
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shazirah
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Surah 4:157-158 recounts that Jesus was not killed, but that God raised him up to heaven. It doesn’t conflict with historical accounts necessarily, because Muslims still do believe that a crucifixion took place. God allowed the appearance of it, but Jesus himself was raised to heaven in triumph. Dead people will not rise until the day of judgement, but Jesus never died so that’s why he is able to return.
As discussed above at length, there are many miracles attributed to and around the Prophet (peace be upon him). He healed battle wounds and Ali’s sick eye. He provided water for an army in the desert and several times was noted to cause springs to well up in dry areas. The splitting of the moon before his pagan adversaries. He blinded a band of assassins so that he was able to pass among them to safety without them seeing him. An enemy came out to chase him on horseback, but he caused the horse to sink into the earth and then when the man relented and asked for mercy he rescued him. On the day that he entered Medina, a heavenly illumination fell over the city. On the day that he died, Medina became dark. There are many recorded instances of prophetic revelations that came true. Remarkably, before a battle, he predicted the exact locations that all of the enemy chieftains would die and they in fact died in those places. The sunnah is full of the testimony of the miracles God performed through the Prophet (peace be upon him) and most of them were witnessed by large groups of people.
As discussed above at length, there are many miracles attributed to and around the Prophet (peace be upon him). He healed battle wounds and Ali’s sick eye. He provided water for an army in the desert and several times was noted to cause springs to well up in dry areas. The splitting of the moon before his pagan adversaries. He blinded a band of assassins so that he was able to pass among them to safety without them seeing him. An enemy came out to chase him on horseback, but he caused the horse to sink into the earth and then when the man relented and asked for mercy he rescued him. On the day that he entered Medina, a heavenly illumination fell over the city. On the day that he died, Medina became dark. There are many recorded instances of prophetic revelations that came true. Remarkably, before a battle, he predicted the exact locations that all of the enemy chieftains would die and they in fact died in those places. The sunnah is full of the testimony of the miracles God performed through the Prophet (peace be upon him) and most of them were witnessed by large groups of people.
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Athanasiy
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How can people in Muslim countries live without alcohol?
Where do people go in the evening instead of alcoholic bars?
It seems to me that if in the Slavic countries there was no alcohol, there would be war and revolution. Alcohol, unfortunately became here very important attribute of mass recreation.
Where do people go in the evening instead of alcoholic bars?
It seems to me that if in the Slavic countries there was no alcohol, there would be war and revolution. Alcohol, unfortunately became here very important attribute of mass recreation.
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Athanasiy
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What is the punishment for abortion in Muslim countries?
What is the punishment in Arabic countries for a doctor who illegally makes abortions?
What is the punishment in Arabic countries for a doctor who illegally makes abortions?
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Augustinian
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Not every Muslim country bans alcohol.
United States got along fine during our own prohibition, and people lived. Even today, there are any number of dry counties and dry towns and people still get by.
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shazirah
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Muslims countries usually don’t ban alcohol outright, they allow it to be sold and served to tourists and non-Muslims even in the strictest countries. The hotel my company usually puts us up in in Saudi actually has a bar. It’s weird.
It’s often said that coffee is the Muslim table wine. lol We drink a lot of coffee and tea. Iranian tea culture is a big deal. In some countries men will gather at social clubs in the evening to do business and hang out. Women usually visit each other at home in their neighborhood in countries where there’s a curfew over tea and desserts or they might have their own social clubs in other places. It’s virtually haraam to let someone leave your home until they’ve consumed at least one cup of tea and a cookie, so we find ways to cope.
It’s often said that coffee is the Muslim table wine. lol We drink a lot of coffee and tea. Iranian tea culture is a big deal. In some countries men will gather at social clubs in the evening to do business and hang out. Women usually visit each other at home in their neighborhood in countries where there’s a curfew over tea and desserts or they might have their own social clubs in other places. It’s virtually haraam to let someone leave your home until they’ve consumed at least one cup of tea and a cookie, so we find ways to cope.
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Athanasiy
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What kind of tea and coffee ?
Is it a black tea and black coffee?
Is it a black tea and black coffee?
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shazirah
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While abortion is prohibited except in the case of mortal danger to the mother in most countries and usually has to have approval from a panel of physicians, it’s not considered exactly murder. The hadith record instances of women who either aborted their pregnancy or who caused another person to abort. Murder under Islam can be punished with the death penalty or by having the murderer pay blood-money and forfeit property depending on the wishes of the deceased family. In the case of abortion, only the latter part of the murder statute applies, so the person who contracts the abortion and the person who performs the abortion are both subject to paying blood-money.
One of the hadith record that one woman struck another and caused her to lose her child and die. The aggressor was forced to pay blood money to the other woman’s family for the unborn child and was then executed for murdering the woman herself, so the crime is considered similar but not entirely so. That’s usually mirrored in some way in the law in majority Muslim countries.
One of the hadith record that one woman struck another and caused her to lose her child and die. The aggressor was forced to pay blood money to the other woman’s family for the unborn child and was then executed for murdering the woman herself, so the crime is considered similar but not entirely so. That’s usually mirrored in some way in the law in majority Muslim countries.
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