Asking about Jesus

[Byzantine_Wolf]

what is this divine sonship in “receiving divine sonship” ?

explain this phrase “wanting to make us sharers in his divinity”

The first part refers to the fact that Christians are brothers and sisters in Christ, and that through brotherhood/sisterhood in Christ, we become children of God. Not in a literal, physical sense (ie. like I’m a brother to my sisters) but in a spiritual sense (like a spiritual guide to a disciple).

“But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.” [Luke 20:35-36; emphasis mine]

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [Galatians 3:26-27]

This leads to your second question, regarding Christ’s role as Mediator of the new covenant.

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.” The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. [Romans 8:12-17; emphasis mine]

Tarnished by his sinful nature, mankind was separated from God and remained so even in the afterlife, for before the Resurrection of Christ anyone who died went to Sheol, an underworld where they were separated from God. After Christ died on the cross and descended to Sheol, His sinless human nature and the very power of His divine nature broke open the gates of hell and freed all those within, taking them to Paradise. His sinless nature and His resurrection in a spiritually glorified body permitted our own flesh to be glorified, just as it was with Adam before he sinned.

Therefore He says: When He ascended on high, He led captivity captive, and gave gifts to men. [Psalm 68:18] (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first descended into the lower parts of the earth? He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.) [Ephesians 4:8-10]

on a side note,this leads me to thinking this could lead into two ways…either a concept of becoming literal gods as found in Mormonism or to apply the same standard to Jesus Christ whenever referred to as god or sharing divine nature in the NT and therefore to reject the Trinity.

Yes, many Mormons have taken the first part of Saint Athanasius’s quote (“God became man so that man may become God”) and try to distort it to suit their belief in literal deification. The problem is that anything and everything needs to be understood in context. Saint Athanasius didn’t end there, he elucidated that we are not God by nature (as in literally God or a god) but only in imitation (as Christ instructed in the verse cited in my previous post).

In regards to the belief about Jesus, Christ is the doorway to Paradise, and only faith in Him leads to the eternal life He promised. He is not a fellow son of God, but the Son of God, who permits us through belief in Him to be sons as well.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live." [John 11:25]

As I explained before, the humbling of the Word by becoming fully man and being crucified to be a sacrifice for our sins once and for all, followed by the conquering of hell, united mankind with God once again. We were permitted to join God again in Paradise, as it had been before the Fall.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. [Philippians 2:5-8]

Did all that answer your questions? Do you have any more?

 

[Hadi]

Did all that answer your questions? Do you have any more?

Wolf ,I really appreciate the effort and time put in answering my questions,and if it seems that my posts are very short compared to your answers ,it’s because my English puts limitation on the length of my posts…

here is another question,

Was Satan always aware that God is trinity ?

if yes, why did he offer Jesus the kingdoms of Earth when God has all the kingdoms…

And was Satan hoping Jesus’s human will would overcome Jesus’s divine will ?

what is this “Spirit” in Mat 4:1 “Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.” if it is the holy spirit , how does God lead Himself into temptation ?

 

[ImAnAthiest]

Do you guys remember back in school when your teachers told you to ask any question because there are no stupid questions. Well this isn’t school and any question about Jesus or concerning Jesus is a stupid question, I mean why ask something about someone who has no father because God has never, and will never exist EVER!

 

[Reuben_J]

1- Why did Jesus call the Jews at his time , “lost sheep” ?

2- Why did Jesus instructed his disciples not to teach the Samaritans? they believed in the Torah and had a linage to the 12 Jewish tribes.

Peace be with you.

The 1st post by Claire from DE is excellent in answering your question as to why Jesus died on the cross. It is simply explained and précised and should be very helpful for new enquirer.

I like to address the question on the lost sheep. If you have time I hope you don’t mind reading this. I find the concept of God being the Good Shepherd and his people being the sheep is one of the most beautiful analogies of the attribute of God that we know of.

God as the Good Shepherd is being prophesized by early prophets, notably Jeremiah and Ezekiel.

The simple summary is as follow:

God governed and spoke to his people through the judges but the Hebrews wanted kings to rule them. God relented and gave them kings, beginning with Saul. But the kings were unfaithful to their covenant with God, some were good but many simply worshipped other gods.

As a result they were deprived of God’s protection resulting in their kingdom being destroyed by the enemies. The lowest point in their history was when they were transported to exile in Babylon.

There they lamented - by the river Babylon they wept (Psalm 137). God responded by promising them he would not abandon them even though they did not deserve it. He himself will take over. He himself will be like a shepherd taking care of his sheep. See Ezekiel 34.

Many centuries later, the promise of the Good Shepherd came to pass in the person of Jesus. “I am the Good Shepherd. I come so that you have life in abundance …” John 10:10

Sheep by nature cannot survive on their own, unlike deer that can run faster than their predators, sheep are rather naïve. Left to themselves they will wonder and get lost and become vulnerable to the wild predators. These predators are “the thieves and robbers (Evil One) who rob, destroy, steal and kill” John 10:10.

The concept that Jesus is a savior is clearly demonstrated as how the shepherd saves the lost sheep.

Ezekiel 34:11-16
11 " 'For this is what the Sovereign LORD says: I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. 12 As a shepherd looks after his scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness. 13 I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel, in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land. 14 I will tend them in a good pasture, and the mountain heights of Israel will be their grazing land. There they will lie down in good grazing land, and there they will feed in a rich pasture on the mountains of Israel. 15 I myself will tend my sheep and have them lie down, declares the Sovereign LORD. 16 I will search for the lost and bring back the strays. I will bind up the injured and strengthen the weak, but the sleek and the strong I will destroy. I will shepherd the flock with justice.

 

[Reuben_J]

I really appreciate the answers given in this topic although point#1 was not clearly explained

Did they break the first commandant at his time?

Yes by allowing other gods to be worshipped in the kingdom. The more famous one was Baal. Even Solomon inadvertently was guilty of this as he allowed the gods of his foriegn wives to be worshipped.

 

[Hadi]

Yes by allowing other gods to be worshipped in the kingdom. The more famous one was Baal. Even Solomon inadvertently was guilty of this as he allowed the gods of his foriegn wives to be worshipped.

but I was asking about the Jews in Jesus’s time…I don’t think that some of them worshiped the Roman gods…

 

[Bob_Crowley]

Thanks a lot,you have explained some parts in detail…I appreciate

however,

what is this divine sonship in “receiving divine sonship” ?

explain this phrase “wanting to make us sharers in his divinity”

on a side note,this leads me to thinking this could lead into two ways…either a concept of becoming literal gods as found in Mormonism or to apply the same standard to Jesus Christ whenever referred to as god or sharing divine nature in the NT and therefore to reject the Trinity.

There is only ONE God, who has a Trinitarian nature. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are so closely intertwined that they act as One. Yet they are three personalities. It’s no use asking us to explain it, because we can’t, but you yourself are a trinity of soul, mind and body. Take away any one of them, and you would not be your full self. You’re made in God’s image, hence your own trinitarian nature.

Your body will die, and even though your mind and soul will still exist (as Near Death Experiences seem to make increasingly clear), you would not be able to interact with the physical world. There seems to be quite a number of “temporary death” accounts where the deceased could see their relatives etc. around the hospital bed, but they were unable to contact them - they could think, see, recognise, but were unable to make any impact in the physical sense. They’d lost one of their trinitarian functions. Yet despite this loss, they still existed and had an clear awareness of who they were.

I suspect in a similar sense, when God the Son became human for a limited time, the Trinity had in one sense foregone part of its usual makeup. But the other two were still in action, in the full sense of Godhood. Even when Christ was crucified and died, God the Father and God the Holy Spirit were still in action. Moreover Christ stated “I have the right to lay down my life, and I have the right to take it up again.” Not many of us could say that.

“Gods” in the sense of the Cathechism quote does not mean “God” but simply a glorified being, a transcendant human, a person with greatly increased faculties and abilities. These greatly enhanced abilities will be a gift from God, just as our life now is a gift from God. Exactly what form this will take we will have to wait to find out. That is why it is spelt with a small “g”. These gifts will most likely depend to some extent on how we have used the talents and abilities we have been given right here and now.

These powers will probably seem “godlike” to earth bound humans, but we won’t take long to get used to them. In our own history we’ve gone from horse drawn wagons and camel riding to moon shots in a bit over a century, and most of us just accept these changes as part of life.

 

[Reuben_J]

but I was asking about the Jews in Jesus’s time…I don’t think that some of them worshiped the Roman gods…

No they did not worship the Roman gods. They loathed the Romans. They thought the Messiah would free them from the Romans.

Nevertheless by then the Jews had evolved. They were certainly not the Hebrews during the time of the Mosaic covenant. There were some disagreement among the religous, the teachers of the laws during Jesus’ time. The remnant of Israel were certainly not the pure Hebrews they once were and so was their worship. In other words, they had moved quite far from being the people of the covenant.

Why do you ask? Jesus as the Messiah was still relevant during his time because they certainly had astrayed from the original covenant and worship. Herod was a politcal figure and the pure Judaism surely by this time had become diluted. If you read my earlier posts, the kings were supposed to guide and protect the people of God with God’s will and wisdom. Herod certainly did not. The ‘sheep’ were lost.

Important thing to bear in mind was the prophecies - the promise of the Messiah, the Good Shepherd. That somehow had to come to pass in the person of Jesus.

 

[Hadi]

.

you mentioned some examples of Jews worshiping other gods hundreds of years before Christ but I don’t see any serious sin committed in a large scale by the Jews of the first century AD to label them “lost sheep”…

 

[Reuben_J]

you mentioned some examples of Jews worshiping other gods hundreds of years before Christ but I don’t see any serious sin committed in a large scale by the Jews of the first century AD to label them “lost sheep”…

OK, I can understand your quiery now.

Maybe not in the same scale as in the time of Elijah where the worship of Baal was quite prevalent or during the later years of King Solomon. They nevertheless (by the time of Jesus) had deviated and the earthly kings were not what they were meant to be. The original kingdom was fragmented and by the 1st century the Jews could hardly say for themselves that they truly had a kingdom of their own. As compared to the original plan when the kingdom was still intact - up to King Solomon - it was now a fractured one. The people had dispersed and God’s kingdom was barely recognizable.

There was also different in belief among the religous teachers - example the Pharisees and the Sadducess.

Secondly, as been stated, the prophecy had to be fulfilled.

Thirdly, the history of God and his people need to be seen from the time of creation which I did not cover as I was answering a specific question. God began his work of salvation right after the fall - when Adam was driven out of paradise due to sin.

I think that much I can explain as far as the people of God (the Hebrews) as the lost sheep. Seen in the wider context of History the Jews were still the lost sheep as prophecized in the Ezekiel verses. The Good Shepherd being Jesus was confirmed by Jesus himself in the Gospel of John 10:10.

God bless.

 

[swariffin]

you mentioned some examples of Jews worshiping other gods hundreds of years before Christ but I don’t see any serious sin committed in a large scale by the Jews of the first century AD to label them “lost sheep”…

Dear Hadi,

It is a pleasure to have you in this forum. It has been quite a long time for me leaving CAF due to my job in the remote area. Sorry to be off topic, but I think that I would like to welcome you. I hope you will find a friendly discussion in this forum. As the forum rule said, I do hope that we can share each other of our different point of view about God, but we do have a common agreement that God indeed want us all to live together in peace.

 

[Hadi]

Dear Hadi,

It is a pleasure to have you in this forum. It has been quite a long time for me leaving CAF due to my job in the remote area. Sorry to be off topic, but I think that I would like to welcome you. I hope you will find a friendly discussion in this forum. As the forum rule said, I do hope that we can share each other of our different point of view about God, but we do have a common agreement that God indeed want us all to live together in peace.

I think I have been asking myself lately “what if I was born a Christian” …so I like to prepare myself mentally on how to be a Christian and understand Christian thoughts on God…anyway,back to the main topic…the who and what and why about Jesus seems to be the major dividing point between Judaism ,Christianity and Islam ,

I also want to stress that I am sincere in asking about Jesus ,and if I feel the truth , I would become a Christian right away…

I also want to say that CAF has opened my eyes to see things that I have not seen before in both , my religion and other religions… maybe that’s because I’m still young in my twenties…

it has also helped me understand the cultural/religious mix by simply looking at the “location” of the poster and the post made…

peace

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

here is another question,

Was Satan always aware that God is trinity ?

if yes, why did he offer Jesus the kingdoms of Earth when God has all the kingdoms…

And was Satan hoping Jesus’s human will would overcome Jesus’s divine will ?

what is this “Spirit” in Mat 4:1 “Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.” if it is the holy spirit , how does God lead Himself into temptation ?

I’ve numbered your questions to make them easier to answer, or at least more organized for my own sake.

To answer your first question: most likely, since he used to be an angel, and angels understand the nature of God. As to whether or not he was fully aware of what the Incarnation meant or what the Crucifixion would mean, only God and Satan know. The thing about angels - fallen or pure - is that they only know what God tells them. God grants His faithful angels knowledge according to His will, whereas the fallen angels can only guess. This was one reason why false prophets were always a serious deal - they were being told things by demons, who can only guess or lie.

To answer your second question: Satan’s offering of all the kingdoms of the earth had two purposes. First, he was lying - he could not grant Christ that much power, and the offer was merely a temptation. Satan was attempting to rob Christ of a heavenly kingdom by promising an earthly kingdom, just as he does to any believer. Second, God has all the kingdoms under His command, yes, but Satan is known as the prince of this world (John 12:31), as he was cast down under his own sin and thrives in a fallen world. God has power, but he allows Satan a certain amount of power according to His will (see the opening chapters of the book of Job for an example of this).

On a side note that you may find interesting, look at the language used by the devil during the temptations in the wilderness, and look at the language used by those at Christ’s crucifixion.

Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” [Matthew 4:3]

Then one of the criminals who were hanged blasphemed Him, saying, “If You are the Christ, save Yourself and us.” [Luke 23:39]

In both instances, the devil attempted to seed doubt in the mind of Christ - one by his own words, the other through the unrepentant thief. The doubt was meant to spur the temptation, to feed off pride, and make the intended target (Christ) feel a need to prove Himself. Hence Christ’s rejection of both temptations was a fine show of humility as well as faith.

To answer your third question: Satan hoped that he could tempt Christ’s human nature, or at the very least tempt this man he knew was called the Son of God (note that the demons didn’t bother Christ until after His baptism). Whether or not Satan was fully aware of the hypostatic union that existed in Christ, we cannot say for sure. In any case, the devil loves nothing more than to tempt a holy man, and in order for the Resurrection to work, Christ would have had to have lived a sinless life.

To answer your final question: the “Spirit” mentioned in Matthew 4:1 is the Holy Spirit. Christ was led by the Holy Spirit to the wilderness as a guide, because as the perfect Man Christ followed the will of God (something He did even to the cross). Remember that the Trinity is not three separate Gods, but at the same time it is not a Unitarian God - it is one Being of God revealed in three individual Persons united by one Essence. The Persons serve individual roles, but each one represents the fullness of God.

I hope that answered some of your questions. If you have any more, feel free to ask

 

[Reuben_J]

I think I have been asking myself lately “what if I was born a Christian” …so I like to prepare myself mentally on how to be a Christian and understand Christian thoughts on God…anyway,back to the main topic…the who and what and why about Jesus seems to be the major dividing point between Judaism ,Christianity and Islam ,

As Christianity sees it, Jesus message was a non-compromise and a challenge for everyone to choose – it is either him or not. (Perhaps that’s the price of salvation).

When he was born it was prophesized that " he is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed…" Luke 1:34-35

He said that he “ … did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn a man against his father …’ as he foresaw there will those who believe and those who do not, and there will be conflict between them even in the family. This means every person is for himself when it comes to believing. You cannot tag along on another’s faith but must make a stand on your own.

The call to be follower is at such a price that "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;” Mt 10:37

There is little wonder that he can be the cause of ‘division’ today.

I also want to stress that I am sincere in asking about Jesus ,and if I feel the truth , I would become a Christian right away…

God bless you. Sincerity is quite rare commodity sometimes, in here.

Every religion professes that his is the truth. A matter of conversion should not be made lightly but until your heart is at peace with your decision.

 

[seraphime2008]

I really appreciate the answers given in this topic although point#1 was not clearly explained

Did they break the first commandant at his time?

Hadi…
I know that perhaps my English limitation will be barrier for putting the right explanation here, as well as my position of lay man. What I try to explain here is my own reflection towards some of Jesus’ teaching that is necessary for Jesus to come to the Jews, regarding them as the lost sheep:

• Many of the Jews at that time were really emphasizing the “rules”, the “tradition”, the “law” even to the extent of corrupting them for the sake of the interest of their leaders. Their understanding of obeying the law at the face value have made men become very far away from God. Many of the Jews were implicitly subjugated or taken fully control by their own leaders, all the teachings that were supposed to be seen in the light of the “higher law” of love have been tremendously meticulously put in so detailed manner that made them difficult to understand the real relationships that had to be established between men and God.

You can imagine that for such society, it would seem that God had played favoritism over certain men that certain men with their own efforts can win God’s grace and mercy. The Jews, have placed their effort and lineage in covenant so much as a guarantee that they will be the ones that will be saved and favored by God. They have forgotten that whatever the effort human has made to offer God, we have to understand that at the end it’s always God’ s grace that bring us to our safety, not the way around. For this the Jews have been lost as they’ve forgotten that God’s grace is all up to Him. Men should work for their salvation but they have to remember that all the strength, all the power to work it should be seen as God’s grace and mercy towards people.

-The time when Jesus comes was the very right time since the Romans was the world’s conqueror, while the Jews were still expecting that they would be glorified as the chosen people by the coming of the “worldly” messiah, at the peak of time of so long waiting that there were no prophets had come ever again to the Jews. They were expecting that they would be given the Kingdom of the world. So when Jesus came, they actually have to learn and remember that their early covenant for salvation given to Abraham was for them to spread and share with and for all mankind, not for them only and that it’s not about the Kingdom of earthly power, but the Kingdom of Heaven which is all about the spiritual power and by that they will be able to be free from the “slavery” that was held upon them through their leaders and also by the Romans.

Anyway…I’ve said that it’s my own reflection. Many catholics here can elaborate more.
Hopefully the light will come shining clearly to you.

Peace, and you will be in my prayer

 

[Hadi]

i came across these citations regarding the trinity

Justin Martyr, who died about 165 C.E., called the prehuman Jesus a created angel who is “other than the God who made all things.” He said that Jesus was inferior to God and “never did anything except what the Creator . . . willed him to do and say.”

Irenaeus, who died about 200 C.E., said that the prehuman Jesus had a separate existence from God and was inferior to him. He showed that Jesus is not equal to the “One true and only God,” who is “supreme over all, and besides whom there is no other.”

Clement of Alexandria, who died about 215 C.E., called Jesus in his prehuman existence “a creature” but called God “the uncreated and imperishable and only true God.” He said that the Son “is next to the only omnipotent Father” but not equal to him.

Tertullian, who died about 230 C.E., taught the supremacy of God. He observed: “The Father is different from the Son (another), as he is greater; as he who begets is different from him who is begotten; he who sends, different from him who is sent.” He also said: “There was a time when the Son was not. . . . Before all things, God was alone.”

Hippolytus, who died about 235 C.E., said that God is “the one God, the first and the only One, the Maker and Lord of all,” who “had nothing co-eval [of equal age] with him . . . But he was One, alone by himself; who, willing it, called into being what had no being before,” such as the created prehuman Jesus.

Origen, who died about 250 C.E., said that “the Father and Son are two substances . . . two things as to their essence,” and that “compared with the Father, [the Son] is a very small light.”

your thoughts ?

 

[jakasaki]

i came across these citations regarding the trinity

Justin Martyr, who died about 165 C.E., called the prehuman Jesus a created angel who is “other than the God who made all things.” He said that Jesus was inferior to God and “never did anything except what the Creator . . . willed him to do and say.”

Irenaeus, who died about 200 C.E., said that the prehuman Jesus had a separate existence from God and was inferior to him. He showed that Jesus is not equal to the “One true and only God,” who is “supreme over all, and besides whom there is no other.”

Clement of Alexandria, who died about 215 C.E., called Jesus in his prehuman existence “a creature” but called God “the uncreated and imperishable and only true God.” He said that the Son “is next to the only omnipotent Father” but not equal to him.

Tertullian, who died about 230 C.E., taught the supremacy of God. He observed: “The Father is different from the Son (another), as he is greater; as he who begets is different from him who is begotten; he who sends, different from him who is sent.” He also said: “There was a time when the Son was not. . . . Before all things, God was alone.”

Hippolytus, who died about 235 C.E., said that God is “the one God, the first and the only One, the Maker and Lord of all,” who “had nothing co-eval [of equal age] with him . . . But he was One, alone by himself; who, willing it, called into being what had no being before,” such as the created prehuman Jesus.

Origen, who died about 250 C.E., said that “the Father and Son are two substances . . . two things as to their essence,” and that “compared with the Father, [the Son] is a very small light.”

your thoughts ?

Please post your source links to these quotations please.

 

[katy_kt]

When I googled those claims, it seem they came from a Jehovah Witness book or site called The WatchTower

Edit:
Found it, its on this site under “What the Ante-Nicene Fathers Taught”. The site provided no citation

 

[katy_kt]

I couldn’t find any citations. Hadi, if your source provides citations, please post them.

Here are some quotations from the above early church fathers. I extracted them from this site, so that you can judge the quotations for yourself.

**Justin Martyr-165 C.E. **

“God begat before all creatures a Beginning, who was a certain rational power proceeding from Himself… which was truly brought forth from the Father, was with the Father before all the creatures, and the Father communed with Him.” Dialogue with Trypho Ch. 61, 62
“this power is indivisible and inseparable from the Father,” ibid Ch. 128
“begotten from the Father, by His power and will, but not by abscission, as if the essence of the Father were divided,” ibid Ch. 128

Irenaeus, who died about 200 C.E

“the Father is Lord and the Son is Lord, and the Father is God and the Son is God, since he who is born of God is God, and in this way, according to His being and power and essence, one God is demonstrated: but according to the economy of our salvation, there is both Father and Son,” On Apostolic Preaching 2:1:47
“The Word, namely the Son, was always with the Father; and that Wisdom also, which is the Spirit, was present with Him, anterior to all creation.” Against Heresies 4:20:3

Clement of Alexandria who died about 215 C.E

(With regards to Jesus)
"the Divine Word, He that is truly most manifest Deity, He that is made equal to the Lord of the universe” Exhortation to the Heathen Ch. 10
“God in the form of man, stainless, the minister of His Father’s will, the Word who is God, who is in the Father, who is at the Father’s right hand, and with the form of God is God.” The Instructor Bk. 1, Ch. 1
“the Son of God, being, by equality of substance, one with the Father, is eternal and uncreated.” Comments on the First Epistle of John

**
Tertullian, who died about 230 C.E.**

“Bear always in mind that this is the rule of faith which I profess; by it I testify that the Father, and the Son, and the Spirit are inseparable from each other…and that the Father is one, and the Son one, and the Spirit one, and that They are distinct from Each Other.” Against Praxeus Ch. 8, 9
“All are of One, by unity of substance; while the mystery of the dispensation distributes the Unity into a Trinity, placing in their order the three Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: three, yet of one substance, and of one condition, and of one power, inasmuch as He is one God.” ibid Ch. 2
“All the Scriptures attest the clear existence of, and distinction in, the Persons of the Trinity, and indeed furnish us with our Rule of faith,” ibid Ch. 11
“I must everywhere hold one only substance in three coherent and inseparable Persons.” ibid Ch. 12

Hippolytus, who died about 235 C.E.

“The Logos alone of this God is from God himself; wherefore also the Logos is God, being the substance of God. Now the world was made from nothing; wherefore it is not God.” Refutation of all Heresies Bk. 10, Ch. 29
“by nature He is God,” On Genesis, Gen 49:16-20
“who was co-existent with His Father before all time, and before the foundation of the world, always had the glory proper to Godhead.” ibid, Gen 49:26
Jesus “was in essential being with His Father” On Luke Ch. 23
“We cannot otherwise think of one God, but by believing in truth in Father and Son and Holy Spirit,” Against the Heresy of One Noetus Section 14
“Whosoever omits any one of these, fails in glorifying God perfectly. For it is through this Trinity that the Father is glorified. For the Father willed, the Son did, the Spirit manifested. The whole Scriptures, then, proclaim this truth.” ibid section 14

Origen, who died about 250 C.E

“God is the Father of His only-begotten Son, who was born indeed of Him, and derives from Him what He is, but without any beginning, not only such as may be measured by any divisions of time, but even that which the mind alone can contemplate within itself, or behold, so to speak, with the naked powers of the understanding. And therefore we must believe that Wisdom was generated before any beginning that can be either comprehended or expressed.” First Principles 1:2:2
“We have been able to find no statement in Holy Scripture in which the Holy Spirit could be said to be made or created.” ibid 1:3:3
“all things which exist were made by God, and that there was nothing which was not made, save the nature of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit,” ibid 4:3:5
“the Father generates an uncreated Son, and brings forth a Holy Spirit, not as if He had no previous existence, but because the Father is the origin and source of the Son or Holy Spirit, and no anteriority or posteriority can be understood as existing in them.” ibid 2:2:1
“the Holy Spirit is reckoned in the Unity of the Trinity along with the unchangeable Father and His Son.” ibid 1:3:4

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

The Jehovah’s Witnesses? I immediately call those quotes into question.

Especially when they call Origen a “church father.” Some of his (early) writings are held in esteem, but for the most part he’s condemned as a heretic. Tertullian started out wonderfully, but he later went by the wayside (unfortunately).