Asking for Prayer and Discernment in Unity...

[Hesychios]

No they are Schismatic. The Chinese government formed it when they made being Catholic illegal. It’s been in the news lately when they named a new Bishop without Papal approval.

catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=22230

Peace,

Ryan

This is not an easy thing to classify.

One could say that it has the same relationship to Rome as the SSPX, only for different reasons. The laity and some clergy are known to move between the CPCA and the underground church with some frequency.

Some of the Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association bishops have been ordained with the approval of the Vatican, and some have not. Does that make the approved bishops schismatic? :ehh:

As to the whole issue of approval, the fact is that for most of history, appointment by the bishop of Rome was not necessary for a valid bishop to hold a See in the Roman Catholic church, except in the immediate environs of Rome (specifically central Italy in the first centuries) and in some mission areas Rome claimed for itself (the missions to the Angles and Saxons of Britain come to mind). He certainly did not move them around like the Vatican does today.

That situation did not change until concordats were signed between Rome and the various governments of Europe, beginning (I think) with Napoleon. Naming the bishops of the world by the Pope is a very late development in the Roman Catholic church and was not a practice in the Eastern Catholic churches before the Great Schism.

Michael

 

[paarsurrey]

As I noted above, I am trying to work on the idea of “separated brethren”-- since we as Catholics do acknowledge authentic motions of the Holy Spirit moving among non-Catholic denominations.
As such, I am hopeful that we could work on the concept of us Catholics being “brothers in Christ” with other denominations just as Joseph was a “brother in Israel” with his other brothers-- even if we are all just as separated just as Joseph was separated form his own brothers.

Hi

There is no harm if to start with all Christians denominations are persuaded to merge into twelve loose groupings as suggested by Mr. Ex Nihilo, if I have correctly undestood the above post.

Quran, in my opinion, points out reasons of forming denomination into a religion:

[30:30] Nay, but those, who are unjust, follow their own low desires without knowledge. Then who can guide him whom Allah lets go astray? There will be no helpers for them.
[30:31] So set thy face to the service of religion with single-minded devotion. And follow the nature made by Allah, the nature according to which He has fashioned mankind. There is no altering the creation of Allah. That is the right religion - but most men know not -
[30:32] So you all turn to Him, in repentance, and seek His protection and observe Prayer, and be not of those who associate partners with Allah -
[30:33] Of those who split up their religion and have become divided into sects, every party rejoicing in what they have.
www3.alislam.org/showChapter.jsp?ch=30&verse=30

May be this helps to do this good work.
I pray that your good efforts succeed.

Thanks

 

[Syele]

I see fewer than 12 hmm…

Catholic
Calvinist
Arminian
Lutheran
Anglican

Perhaps the other half would be ones I don’t know enough about. Most Protestant Denominations I have ever been exposed to were either Arminian, Calvinist, or a mixture of those two in some way.

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

I see fewer than 12 hmm…

Catholic
Calvinist
Arminian
Lutheran
Anglican

Perhaps the other half would be ones I don’t know enough about. Most Protestant Denominations I have ever been exposed to were either Arminian, Calvinist, or a mixture of those two in some way.

What about Baptist or Pentecostal for example? How would they fit into the schema above?

 

[Mr.Ex_Nihilo]

Hi

There is no harm if to start with all Christians denominations are persuaded to merge into twelve loose groupings as suggested by Mr. Ex Nihilo, if I have correctly undestood the above post.

It’s really more of a thought experiment which is hopefully guided by true and sincere prayer in the Holy Spirit. I think there is only One Church: The Catholic Church. But that Catholic elements are present in other denominations too.

I would even argue that God allowed the Orthodox and Protestants to rise up against Catholicism for reasons similar to why God allowed the Babylonians and Assyrians to rise up against Israel-- to remind them of the zeal and desire that they already knew and were indeed ignoring or forgetting or even just wrong about to the exclusion of accurate dogma.
Hosea 6:6:

For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

In other words, although not always the case, I think these persecutions were allowed by God to restore a zealous balance within Catholicism in my opinion-- to reflect the Catholic zeal back to us to (even if the Orthodox and Protestants went much farther than what God authentically called them to do).

I’m not suggesting that Catholic doctrines were wrong-- because I believe we Catholics are 100% correct doctrinally speaking. However, our zeal and the putting our faith into effect has indeed suffered greatly at times-- sometimes horribly so.

May be this helps to do this good work.
I pray that your good efforts succeed.

Thanks

Thank you.

 

[Syele]

What about Baptist or Pentecostal for example? How would they fit into the schema above?

Every Baptist church I ever attended was Calvinist, though I’ve been told here that Baptists in other areas are Arminian.

Assembly of Gods are Arminan and Pentecostal is too as far as I know.