Asking parents for a marital blessing?

[Xantippe]

I was not saying many dads would not talk to their daughter, just that they will wait until then to talk to the prospective groom. I am certainly going that route. I think it wise.

It is certainly appropriate to wait until there is an official offer on the table, but there should have been enough discussion with the daughter that there isn’t really a need to talk to break fresh ground with the prospective son-in-law.

By the way, bear in mind that my original response (with the extreme example from my husband’s family) was in response to the OP, where it did seem likely that the groom’s family is going to be unreasonable. Again, if the couple has been dating three years and is planning a wedding two years from now, both families have had and will have ample opportunity to give (name removed by moderator)ut. How much longer than five years is necessary?

From the OP:

"We have a bad feeling that he will not get his parents blessing because they are really uptight. It’s not that they don’t want us to get married but their reasoning is that we need to finish school because if we can’t afford our own schooling, then we can’t afford a wedding. However, we are only getting engaged. We aren’t getting married until after we graduate. We are planning a small, as inexpensive as possible, wedding as well.

If he does not receive his parents blessing, do we still go ahead and get engaged and count them out of the deal until they are willing to accept our decision? They can be really difficult people sometimes and it is rather frustrating."

 

[MJJean]

A man does not ask the girl’s father for permission because he feels that she is the property of her father. Rather he does so because he realized that the father is ultimately responsible for the girl’s well being. Its ok to ask for a blessing, rather than permission, but leave it up to your boyfriend. It is really his affair, not yours.

Umm, no. The poster is an adult. Since she is an adult it is ultimately she, not her father, who is responsible for her well being.

As the poster and her boyfriend are a couple who are planning engagement and marriage nothing is his affair and not hers. Everything is now their affair.

Again, it should be up to your boyfriend if he asks both or just your father. But do NOT do it together. Do not take away from your parents the chance to have that conversation with your boyfriend alone. It very likely could be very important to your father. These “silly traditions” have been around a long time for a reason. Do not discard them lightly.

These “silly traditions” were around when women were socially and legally the literal property of their fathers or male guardians. Women did not receive education nor were they typically capable of supporting themselves. Women were also kept as ignorant as possible of many facts of life and were therefore considered incapable of making a good decision when it came to marriage. None of these things apply today.

I would not as concerned about getting his parent’s blessing. You do not need to ask his parents anything. I think simply sitting down with them after the fact and informing them is fine.

So, umm, yeah…It’s ok to get engaged and inform his parents, but hers have to be consulted? Really? What century are you living in?

My replies in blue.

OP, I’d suggest what other posters have already suggested. Once you and your BF are formally engaged arrange for a time to have a nice dinner with each set of parents either together or separately and give them the good news.

If it helps, my father was absolutely not happy when I got serious with my husband. He said time and again that my now DH would be a poor choice. That he wouldn’t stick it out, he’d not properly support me and the kids, he was too socially awkward for me and on and on.

My husbands parents didn’t like that I was “from the wrong side of the tracks” and they were hoping he’d marry his ex-GF. I was even at one point accused of being a gold digger by some of his friends and a couple of his family. Which is funny as heck considering the parents and much older siblings are very well off, but my DH is not nor has he ever been.

Thankfully, we weren’t asking anything. We informed. We nodded and smiled and got married anyways. Here we are 15 years later and very much happy together.

 

[Xantippe]

My replies in blue.

OP, I’d suggest what other posters have already suggested. Once you and your BF are formally engaged arrange for a time to have a nice dinner with each set of parents either together or separately and give them the good news.

And tell them in advance that it’s to celebrate good news so you don’t have a huge awkward scene in public with prospective in-laws boohooing over your surprise engagement announcement.

They’ll be THRILLED that you aren’t announcing a pregnancy.

(Sad but true.)

 

[mommamaree]

I agree with Xantippe about not asking for permission, unless you will decide to not become engaged if you don’t gain the parents’ permission. My husband’s parents were extremely opposed to us becoming engaged (we were 18 at the time) and told my husband he should just live with me instead (they were/are Christians). They wouldn’t hear of an engagement at all, and my own parents attempted to force us to break up. Consequently, after a year of this sort of pressure, we secretly eloped and never returned home again during school breaks except for holidays, during which visits we were forced to behave as unmarried individuals (despite his mother and my parents knowing we had eloped). Then my parents insisted upon having a “wedding” when I graduated. And the day of our “wedding” my step-FIL told my husband that he still felt it was wrong for him to marry me.

We were high-school sweethearts for goodness sake! And I put myself through college with a combination of grants and loans that I would never have qualified for if I had been unmarried. And my husband’s college was already funded, being an agreement in his parent’s divorce. So…not sure what the problem was?

So, yeah, don’t ask permission if you are afraid you won’t get it, and you intend to get engaged anyway. Some parents will do anything and everything to manipulate their grown children into not getting married because they feel it is happening outside of their imaginary timetable. Just be ready to deal with the consequences like an adult. Consider what you would do if the parents decide to withdraw any financial support for college or health insurance or auto insurance or whatever else. If you can handle going it completely alone (which is what I had to do) then proceeding without permission is fine. If you are unable to manage finishing your degree program without their help and you are fairly sure it will be withdrawn, then you will have some thinking to do.

 

[Corki]

Not ours.

Actually, our priest was quite adamant about this being about “us” and not about our parents. That it was about us starting a new life together separate from our parents. I remember this came up because he discouraged brides from being escorted by their father unless they really insisted on it. My own father was deceased so it was a non-issue.

My husband did speak to my mother before proposing to me. It wasn’t to ask for a blessing. It was just to inform her what his intentions were. He wasn’t sure how his parents were going to respond, so he waited until after he proposed to tell them.

I am kind of shocked. The pre-cana counseling we went to covered such minutia as each person’s ideas about household chores and family finances. You would think that relations with future in-laws would be a point of discussion too.

Maybe it was because we were a multi-cultural couple - more chance of differences in ideas about extended family - but I certainly got the idea that his was part of the regular process.

 

[Xantippe]

I would definitely encourage parents to cut out the drama. It’s OK to ask, how will you afford to live? or what will you do if you have a baby? or are your dreams compatible? or how will you feel about going to church alone with the kids? but it’s not OK to boohoo, caterwaul and use emotional pressure. (Dad’s having chest pains over this! We almost had a car accident because we are so stressed out over your engagement! Etc.) If you’re a parent of a child who wants to get married, be an adult.

 

[AnnArbor]

Of course the end result of a boy asking the girl’s father for permission results in some level of ‘exerting pressure one way or the other in the girls choice of a spouse.’ What the heck is wrong with that. I have told my kids for years on various qualities a future spouse should have. The specific intent of those talks has been to exert pressure on their choice.

My gosh, what the heck are parents for? Just feed and bath and shelter the kids and beyond that watch them like a watch-maker?

There is a difference between teaching children, by word and example, what qualities are desirable in a future spouse and actually giving permission to a specific individual. The first is the role of a parent raising a child; the second is exerting pressure on the child’s choice of a spouse – and that is in direct contradiction of the Catechism.

 

[AnnArbor]

Parents are often older, wiser, they can provide good advise. Approval of the parents is not necessary, I agree, but of no concern? Really? I would think even in the example given by a poster above about a guy’s parents being totally unreasonable, I am sure it was a concern. If nothing else, one would have to determine how the estrangement will affect them.

BTW, for the Church to marry us, we have to show more than what you say. Quite simply two adults choose to marry, but they do not necessarily get to if the Church says no.

Actually, two adults who are baptized Catholics and free to marry have the right to expect the Church to witness their marriage.

 

[mommamaree]

Actually, two adults who are baptized Catholics and free to marry have the right to expect the Church to witness their marriage.

I am glad you clarified this. I read tafan’s statement and I was confused. Provided they are of age, they are Catholic, and they are free to marry, what possible reasons would the Church have to deny them the sacrament of matrimony? I have never heard of any.

Now, in my church growing up (I attended the church from the age of three until 18), a Southern Baptist church, the pastor of the church refused to perform the marriage ceremony of my husband and me. We were turned away because my husband’s parents called him and made a stink (at that point, we never darkened their doorstep again, after being told we were not real members and therefore had no say). So we were denied Christian marriage in our church, and our only option was to elope before a justice of the peace. So I know Protestant churches can get away with denying a couple who wish to be married, but I thought the Church dealt with these things in a very different way, and would not allow parents or other parish members to override a legitimate request to be married.

 

[MaryT777]

And I do not understand this mentality at all.

Two adults choosing to marry and start a family of their own. If their parents approve or not is really of no concern to them or to the Church. Their ability to marry has nothing to do with the parents. In the pre-marriage counseling/prep, there is no mention of parental approval nor are we expected to show that our parents approve. We are expected to show that we have received the sacraments and are members of that church community.

 

[Corki]

Actually, two adults who are baptized Catholics and free to marry have the right to expect the Church to witness their marriage.

That “right” does not translate into an “on-demand” situation.

The Church also has a duty to make sure that the couple is well-prepared. If an issue arises in pre-marriage counseling, such as opposition from family members or some kind of family rift, the Church will often delay the marriage to make sure that the couple is prepared. This is not to say that all the parents must be in agreement but the priest conducting the counseling is going to want to make sure they are getting married for the right reasons (i.e. not out of rebellion or to spite a parent) or that the parental objections are not a signal of a well-founded concern.

 

[AnnArbor]

That “right” does not translate into an “on-demand” situation.

The Church also has a duty to make sure that the couple is well-prepared. If an issue arises in pre-marriage counseling, such as opposition from family members or some kind of family rift, the Church will often delay the marriage to make sure that the couple is prepared. This is not to say that all the parents must be in agreement but the priest conducting the counseling is going to want to make sure they are getting married for the right reasons (i.e. not out of rebellion or to spite a parent) or that the parental objections are not a signal of a well-founded concern.

While the Church has a duty to ensure that a couple receives marriage preparation, parental objection is not something that is a valid barrier to marriage, and to use it to delay marriage would be in contradiction to the Church’s own teaching that parents are not to exert pressure on their child’s choice of spouse.

 

[Corki]

While the Church has a duty to ensure that a couple receives marriage preparation, parental objection is not something that is a valid barrier to marriage, and to use it to delay marriage would be in contradiction to the Church’s own teaching that parents are not to exert pressure on their child’s choice of spouse.

You twisted my words. Of course, parental objections are not a “barrier to marriage”. But to use an existing family conflict as a reason to delay marriage would not be at all in contradiction to Church teaching. It would not be the parents “exerting pressure” but the priest exercising caution and discretion, which is his duty. Delaying a marriage to determine if the couple has come to terms with family objections or to make sure that there are not founded reasons for those objections is a good exercise in marriage preparation.

 

[AnnArbor]

You twisted my words. Of course, parental objections are not a “barrier to marriage”. But to use an existing family conflict as a reason to delay marriage would not be at all in contradiction to Church teaching. It would not be the parents “exerting pressure” but the priest exercising caution and discretion, which is his duty. Delaying a marriage to determine if the couple has come to terms with family objections or to make sure that there are not founded reasons for those objections is a good exercise in marriage preparation.

Counseling a couple about how to deal with a family conflict is not the same as suggesting that couples should get a blessing or permission from the woman’s parents first. MJJean made some good points – these traditions are holdovers from a time when a woman was actually considered property being transferred from father to husband.

However, you might be right about a need for delay – if a couple felt they needed permission from parents, they may not be mature enough to marry.

 

[randomguy180]

their reasoning is that we need to finish school because if we can’t afford our own schooling, then we can’t afford a wedding. However, we are only getting engaged. We aren’t getting married until after we graduate. We are planning a small, as inexpensive as possible, wedding as well.

Thank you!

Well if they are paying for your schooling then i kinda agree with them because if you can’t pay for school you shouldn’t be getting married but if they are not paying for school ignore this.
However you said you wouldn’t be getting married for a few years so I think it would be best to get a job if you do not have one already, save up for the wedding and get engaged next year.

 

[tafan]

Actually, two adults who are baptized Catholics and free to marry have the right to expect the Church to witness their marriage.

Why don’t people pay attention to the context of the conversation before responding???

Ok, I am calm now. I am sorry I brought up the whole church thing, I certainly didn’t expect this thread drift. I was responding to post 12 which, along with other posts, seemed to imply two adults should just completely decide for themselves if they get married. So I brought up, what I thought was an extreme example, by asking the rhetorical question "I suppose the Church should have no say either? ". I never would have guessed that people would think the answer was the church had little say. In particular what was responded to next about the Church was:

“We are expected to show that we have received the sacraments and are members of that church community.”. Now, that is patently false. The Church requires, as you say, that we are free to marry. So I simply said the Church requires a lot more than receiving t"he sacraments and being members of the Church community."

Well, just to give you a flavor, the following link are impediments to marriage:

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3Y.HTM

In addition to those impediments, the Church has other requirements to a marriage, that are determined by the local ordinary (see canon 1063 and 1064).

Finally, NO WHERE have I implied that the Church requires parental consent for marriage.

 

[AnnArbor]

Why don’t people pay attention to the context of the conversation before responding???

Ok, I am calm now. I am sorry I brought up the whole church thing, I certainly didn’t expect this thread drift. I was responding to post 12 which, along with other posts, seemed to imply two adults should just completely decide for themselves if they get married. So I brought up, what I thought was an extreme example, by asking the rhetorical question "I suppose the Church should have no say either? ". I never would have guessed that people would think the answer was the church had little say. In particular what was responded to next about the Church was:

“We are expected to show that we have received the sacraments and are members of that church community.”. Now, that is patently false. The Church requires, as you say, that we are free to marry. So I simply said the Church requires a lot more than receiving t"he sacraments and being members of the Church community."

Well, just to give you a flavor, the following link are impediments to marriage:

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P3Y.HTM

In addition to those impediments, the Church has other requirements to a marriage, that are determined by the local ordinary (see canon 1063 and 1064).

Finally, NO WHERE have I implied that the Church requires parental consent for marriage.

I did read the context. And I did not say you implied the Church required parental consent. I was merely clarifying your statement that “if the Church says no” then a couple can’t get married in the Church. Most of the impediments you cited, other than impotence, were covered by my statement “adults” and “free to marry.”

Unless barred by specific impediments, the Church cannot simply deny, nor indefinitely delay, the marriage of two baptized adults who are free to marry.

 

[tafan]

MJJean:

Umm, no. The poster is an adult. Since she is an adult it is ultimately she, not her father, who is responsible for her well being.

Any father, regardless of a daughters age, feels he is still responsible for her well being. A prospective groom, is being considerate of this feeling when he asks for the permission/blessing.

As the poster and her boyfriend are a couple who are planning engagement and marriage nothing is his affair and not hers. Everything is now their affair.

Ya, ya, ya. Its all up to the couple, that’s the modern day way of looking at things. I get it. Its really worked out well based on the miniscule number of divorces in society.

These “silly traditions” were around when women were socially and legally the literal property of their fathers or male guardians. Women did not receive education nor were they typically capable of supporting themselves. Women were also kept as ignorant as possible of many facts of life and were therefore considered incapable of making a good decision when it came to marriage. None of these things apply today.

Women have never been legally the literal property of their fathers or male guardians in any Christian country since the time of Christ. Read some history. Your other statements are extreme also, and not indicative of the facts.

So, umm, yeah…It’s ok to get engaged and inform his parents, but hers have to be consulted? Really? What century are you living in?

Yes, its a double standard and I am not going to apologize for it. If there is anything that is apparent in today’s high divorce rate society is that women take a lot bigger risk getting married than men. That’s a fact. In the event of a divorce with kids, women more often than not face the extreme financial struggles. The vast majority of abuse is directed against women, not men. Women have a harder time earning a living for a family. I could go on and on. I am not saying this is way that society should be, but it is the way society is. Like it or not, a woman has to be more careful. And a father is more worried about his daughters marriage than his sons.

 

[tafan]

I did read the context. And I did not say you implied the Church required parental consent. I was merely clarifying your statement that “if the Church says no” then a couple can’t get married in the Church. Most of the impediments you cited, other than impotence, were covered by my statement “adults” and “free to marry.”

Unless barred by specific impediments, the Church cannot simply deny, nor indefinitely delay, the marriage of two baptized adults who are free to marry.

But they were not covered by the statement I was originally responding to!!! Specifically:

We are expected to show that we have received the sacraments and are members of that church community.

If you had read the context you would realize that, since it was quoted in my post on the topic.

 

[AnnArbor]

But they were not covered by the statement I was originally responding to!!! Specifically:

If you had read the context you would realize that, since it was quoted in my post on the topic.

Yes, I saw that. I was merely clarifying this statement:

“Quite simply two adults choose to marry, but they do not necessarily get to if the Church says no.”

Obviously, I was not the only one who thought it needed clarifying, since Mommamaree responded with thanks that I had done so. Because really, if one presumes freedom to marry, then yes, two adults choose to marry, and they do necessarily get to do so because the Church cannot say no. If they are not free to marry, it is a moot point – but that was not the topic of the discussion.