Asking parents for a marital blessing?

[tafan]

Yes, I saw that. I was merely clarifying this statement:

“Quite simply two adults choose to marry, but they do not necessarily get to if the Church says no.”

Obviously, I was not the only one who thought it needed clarifying, since Mommamaree responded with thanks that I had done so. Because really, if one presumes freedom to marry, then yes, two adults choose to marry, and they do necessarily get to do so because the Church cannot say no. If they are not free to marry, it is a moot point – but that was not the topic of the discussion.

Based on all the threads about annulments on this forum, I find it hard to believe people would not think the Church does not prohibit marriages sometimes. But if it needed clarified, thanks. I certainly want to be clear, and will take the help.

 

[mommamaree]

Based on all the threads about annulments on this forum, I find it hard to believe people would not think the Church does not prohibit marriages sometimes. But if it needed clarified, thanks. I certainly want to be clear, and will take the help.

I appreciated the clarification, personally, because I have experienced actually being denied marriage in my church, the church I had grown up in and where I met my husband. I was denied for no good reason, simply that my husband’s parents were opposed. We were of age, we were baptized, we were high school sweethearts who intended to be engaged a sufficient length of time, and we were meeting with our pastor to begin planning our wedding. We were told, in no uncertain terms, that we were not going to be allowed marriage in our church. When we converted, I thought that access to sacraments could not be denied anyone based upon the whims and preferences of others. So I was confused by your statement. If two people seeking marriage are of age and are free to marry, what reason could there be to refuse them? So the clarification offered by AnnArbor really helped me.

One further question: when would the Church prohibit marriage, with respect to a man and woman who are both Catholic and free to marry? You mention here again that it does happen, referencing annulment. This is what confuses me.

 

[Xantippe]

Yes, its a double standard and I am not going to apologize for it. If there is anything that is apparent in today’s high divorce rate society is that women take a lot bigger risk getting married than men. That’s a fact. In the event of a divorce with kids, women more often than not face the extreme financial struggles. The vast majority of abuse is directed against women, not men. Women have a harder time earning a living for a family. I could go on and on. I am not saying this is way that society should be, but it is the way society is. Like it or not, a woman has to be more careful. And a father is more worried about his daughters marriage than his sons.

We need to have you have a friendly word with our single male posters who are into the men’s rights/red pill/manosphere/etc. scene

 

[Corki]

Counseling a couple about how to deal with a family conflict is not the same as suggesting that couples should get a blessing or permission from the woman’s parents first. MJJean made some good points – these traditions are holdovers from a time when a woman was actually considered property being transferred from father to husband.

You are right, it is not the same. My comments, that you have repeatedly twisted, were in response to the poster who said that the parents feelings or concerns should not even be discussed at pre-cana.

However, you might be right about a need for delay – if a couple felt they needed permission from parents, they may not be mature enough to marry.

Twist, twist. Just the opposite. I was considering the couple who might be getting married in spite of family objections or as an act of rebellion or independence. Or even more likely, a couple who brings up an objection that is being expressed by parents that might shed light on the couple’s ability to validly marry.

I think that a couple who wants their parents to be happy about their marriage and to give their blessing is exhibiting maturity, not immaturity.

 

[Xantippe]

You are right, it is not the same. My comments, that you have repeatedly twisted, were in response to the poster who said that the parents feelings or concerns should not even be discussed at pre-cana.

Twist, twist. Just the opposite. I was considering the couple who might be getting married in spite of family objections or as an act of rebellion or independence. Or even more likely, a couple who brings up an objection that is being expressed by parents that might shed light on the couple’s ability to validly marry.

I think that a couple who wants their parents to be happy about their marriage and to give their blessing is exhibiting maturity, not immaturity.

The immature couple sticking it to mom and dad is going to go straight to the Justice of the Peace–they’re very unlikely to mess around with marriage prep.

(I personally favor a multi-meeting approach to marriage prep rather than the one weekend-and-done blitz that a lot of people wind up doing.)

 

[mommamaree]

The immature couple sticking it to mom and dad is going to go straight to the Justice of the Peace–they’re very unlikely to mess around with marriage prep.

Except this is exactly what some couples are left with, and it is exactly what I did, and not for reasons of immaturity. Faced with extreme parental interference and opposition that left us with no premarital counseling or promise to ever allow us to marry in our church, we left. We attempted to abide by my in-laws wishes for a brief period of time, but knew they were insisting we live in sin rather than marry, or break it off, but no engagement and no marriage. We were afraid of living in such a sinful state, so we eloped, I negotiated an end to my dorm contract, we informed the parents after a while, and we moved on with our lives. Now we have been happily married for nearly 17 years, while my parents divorced, my in-laws went through a divorce (and later reconciled), my brother and sister (who married their spouses with my parents blessing) have gone through hasty divorces. All the while, we wonder why they gave us such a hard time and tried to break us up???
I am glad that it would be against the Church’s own teachings for a Catholic parish to bow to the pressure exerted by parents or others who oppose the marriage of two people who are free to marry. Especially since it would be a sin for a Catholic couple to attempt marriage with a justice of the peace presiding.

 

[Xantippe]

Except this is exactly what some couples are left with, and it is exactly what I did, and not for reasons of immaturity. Faced with extreme parental interference and opposition that left us with no premarital counseling or promise to ever allow us to marry in our church, we left. We attempted to abide by my in-laws wishes for a brief period of time, but knew they were insisting we live in sin rather than marry, or break it off, but no engagement and no marriage. We were afraid of living in such a sinful state, so we eloped, I negotiated an end to my dorm contract, we informed the parents after a while, and we moved on with our lives. Now we have been happily married for nearly 17 years, while my parents divorced, my in-laws went through a divorce (and later reconciled), my brother and sister (who married their spouses with my parents blessing) have gone through hasty divorces. All the while, we wonder why they gave us such a hard time and tried to break us up???
I am glad that it would be against the Church’s own teachings for a Catholic parish to bow to the pressure exerted by parents or others who oppose the marriage of two people who are free to marry. Especially since it would be a sin for a Catholic couple to attempt marriage with a justice of the peace presiding.

Let me amend myself: “The immature CATHOLIC couple.”

Perhaps the reason all of these older people were so negative about you marrying was because they themselves were on such thin ice, maritally speaking.

It was pretty weird that your Baptist pastor didn’t even give you a date. Example, “If you crazy kids still feel this way in six months, I’ll marry you.”

 

[mommamaree]

Let me amend myself: “The immature CATHOLIC couple.”

Perhaps the reason all of these older people were so negative about you marrying was because they themselves were on such thin ice, maritally speaking.

It was pretty weird that your Baptist pastor didn’t even give you a date. Example, “If you crazy kids still feel this way in six months, I’ll marry you.”

I agree completely with every point you made here.

To the last point specifically, we were not asking for immediate marriage, and we would have been thrilled if our request for marriage prep and wedding planning had been accepted, even and especially if it included a reasonable time frame. But it was a flat no, despite the fact that this pastor had witnessed us meeting, dating, and falling in love, all in his church and in with his awareness of our deepening relationship. How many times did we hear talks to the youth group about chastity and courtship and waiting until marriage, and yet, when the groom’s parents preferred cohabitation or breaking up over engagement, how quickly were those values ignored!

 

[AnnArbor]

You are right, it is not the same. My comments, that you have repeatedly twisted, were in response to the poster who said that the parents feelings or concerns should not even be discussed at pre-cana.

Twist, twist. Just the opposite. I was considering the couple who might be getting married in spite of family objections or as an act of rebellion or independence. Or even more likely, a couple who brings up an objection that is being expressed by parents that might shed light on the couple’s ability to validly marry.

I think that a couple who wants their parents to be happy about their marriage and to give their blessing is exhibiting maturity, not immaturity.

I am not twisting your words – I am disagreeing with you. In the first incidence, although you were responding to a poster that talked about pre-Cana, you implied that “overcoming family objections” was a criterion that a priest might use to delay marriage. I disagree.

As to the second instance, I was agreeing that you are right that there might be reasons for a couple to delay marriage, but I disagree as to what those reasons would be – I think if a couple believes they need parental permission/blessing in order to marry, they are probably not mature enough to do so. In either event, it’s not up to the priest. He is responsible for making sure canon law requirements are met, and for ensuring the couple has received marriage preparation.

But if they are baptized adults who are free to marry, they have the right to marry in the Church.

 

[Avocadomom]

I haven’t read every other reply, but I believe it is a worthy tradition.

A young man seeking a potential father-in-law’s blessing isn’t asking for property rights to be transferred. He is showing respect to the man who has cared for his future wife for the first 25 -or-so years of her life. Implicit in my approval of this custom is that the father has been a good father. If he has been absent, abusive, etc. then he absolutely does not deserve this show of respect.

My husband and my sisters’ husbands all approached our dad before proposing. I’m sure they were already 99.99999% sure my dad would approve, since we made a point of including our boyfriends in our family life for years prior to engagement. They were all close with my parents and clearly had already been welcomed. Plus, my parents would have said something well before the point of engagement had they disliked our boyfriends.

The ritual of “asking our dad” was just a courtesy and show of respect. An opportunity for my dad to get all philosophical and ask how these young men were going to support their families and impart advice he had. A show that our future husbands had the gumption to have that conversation. I guess it was also one last opportunity for Dad to speak his mind before having to close his mouth out of respect for our marriages.

I think it is especially appropriate if the bride’s family is going to be expected to plunk down a large chunk of change to pay for the wedding.

I guess I’m just one for the old-fashioned conventions

 

[SerraSemper]

I appreciated the clarification, personally, because I have experienced actually being denied marriage in my church, the church I had grown up in and where I met my husband. I was denied for no good reason, simply that my husband’s parents were opposed. We were of age, we were baptized, we were high school sweethearts who intended to be engaged a sufficient length of time, and we were meeting with our pastor to begin planning our wedding. We were told, in no uncertain terms, that we were not going to be allowed marriage in our church. When we converted, I thought that access to sacraments could not be denied anyone based upon the whims and preferences of others. So I was confused by your statement. If two people seeking marriage are of age and are free to marry, what reason could there be to refuse them? So the clarification offered by AnnArbor really helped me.

One further question: when would the Church prohibit marriage, with respect to a man and woman who are both Catholic and free to marry? You mention here again that it does happen, referencing annulment. This is what confuses me. :confused:

Good question. The Church never prohibits marriage to those who are “free to marry”. By definition, those who are free to marry have the right to get married and not have the marriage unduly delayed. However, some people are not 100% free to get married because of natural (like impotence), legal (like age) or ecclesiastical reasons. You specifically asked about how annulments can affect a person’s freedom to marry. When the tribunal has made a decision about the validity of a marriage, it can also impose conditions that must be fulfilled prior to contracting marriage. For example, the judges may decide that since alcohol dependency was at the root of the person’s inability to assume the obligations of marriage, the person must demonstrate X months of sobriety and possibly counseling before the restriction is lifted. No priest should delay witnessing a marriage simply because a parent or family objects. He can advise a couple if the family is strenuously objecting to a marriage to work things out, but the bottom line is that if a couple are free to marry, they have the right to marry, no matter how imprudent such a match may be. Prudence and validity are separate things.