Assalamu alaikum

  • Thread starter Thread starter Abdullah
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
30 miller-

Muslims dont have a unifyed voice. They have no central authority. Who prey tell will lead this anti-violence Campain you want to see?
 
junvir said:
To Damascus,

At last I’m back to this thread… I got lost… so I have to search for “sunni muslim” because that was the word I remember…

…

if we will trace back history, it is only in recent generations that the Roman Catholic Church allowed reading of the bible by lay people… because the protestants have made the bible public … meaning every is given the opportunity to read the bible. The Roman Catholic feared that when ordinary people read the bible they might interpret it not according to the officiial intepretation of the Vatican… well I believe that God in His omnipotent has given averyone the intellect to decide for himself … and that’s include the reading of the biible.

That’s why even if I question many of the practices of my religion, the Roman Catholic Church, I still remain a Catholic hoping for more enligthenment… and I see this forum an opportunity to be enlightened by poeple who has matured in faith.

And what are these practices that I need to be enligthened?
  1. about purgatory… I searched the bible but could not found any reference to purgatory… and other verses are more clear in saying that … when a man dies, his body returns to dust and his spirit returns to God… so where is purgatory?
  2. I am still not enligthened about the rosary though i have been following the prayers with others… but back in my mind I"m at a lost. Why should we repeat the prayer 50 times, when we can say it once with full heart? please enligthen me.
  3. About the graven images of saints, of angels of Jesus…I know the reason of this, my priest has told me… but if you are in my country (Philippines is 90% catholic) or in south america, you will be aghast of how the faithful kiss the feet of the graven images during the lenten season… and kneeling before these graven images… in your God given intellect can you accept this?
well i hope you will not accuse me of not answering this thread… but please gave me enlightenment… not argument.
Click to expand...
hi Junvir! Im a pinoy too…cebuano to be specific,

I felt the same thing before…during my early college days, inside of me, I was doubting to why we pray in front of images and statues/rebolto. also the intercession of mama mary, and the help of the rosary.
  1. purgatory…in the bible, it was written that prior a person goes to heaven…he must be purge from his sin…that is purgatory…it doesnt need to be explicitly written…
2.-3.

during those early college years, in which I was in somekind of in doubt…I had this experience, with a friend(a girl) living in next to my room(its a boarding house). they had this quarrel with her sister, when the girl tried cutting her wrist. Her sister attempted to stop her, when suddenly she was shivering and was unable to speak…her eyes was in fury…her sister called for help. I, who was the nearest person, ran for help. I saw her, like she was stroke. her sister tried to get some Holy water, her sister knew she was already possessed. While her sister was sprinkling she started to resist…her voice become lower, and people from the other house arrived for help. The owner of the boarding house called a priest. While we started to pray the rosary, I held the rosary on her head and she was screaming in pain…She was so strong, I could not hold her…it takes 3 of us to hold her. She began to laugh…made funny of us…saying " we are not worthy to pray…and that we arebeing hypocrites…we live in sin and yet we are praying…" She was calling somebody…she was asking for help, and yet she continue to shout that she was the stars…she was the sun…she was the moon…and that the she will kill all of us… She was trying to distract me of my prayers, I was the closest person to her for I was holding hands and pushing her to lay down. She had told evry person of my sins…i was ashamed…i dont know how did she knew it…but i tried harder to pray and continued th rosary…the priest came and with him are some seminarians, they brought a bible and mama mary’s statue…she was shouting in anger…pointing to mama mary’s image…shouting…" You…You…!"…then the priest…prayed, sprinkled her with Holy water…and she was shooting in pain…Evry the time the priest tries to say “In the name of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Spirit…” As the priest says, the Lord is my Sheperd there is nothing I shall want… she became angry and she was shouting “Liar! Liar!” It took 6 hours when she was calmed. She was brought to a Charismatic healing ministry…and the last thing ive heard is that, they have ancestral history thats why she was possessed.

from the experienced, I’ve learned for myself…I was so sorry and go to confession the next day…

you see, sacramentals is our weapon…and the Lord will always provide…

hope i had shed some light…
 
40.png
unworthy:
Assalamu alaikum!!
How are you Abdullah? I was born in the Middle East you know and many of my best friends are Muslim. Great to have you here and hope you enjoy your stay!
Click to expand...
Wa alaykumus salaam, I am doing well, as I hope you are.
40.png
30miller:
The 6 Holy Muslims on the plane was only an example. There are countless others all the time. Some others are Muslim threats to European cartoonists that they disapprove of and claims of Korans being flushed down toilets at Gitmo by U.S. authorities (I always wondered how one gets a book that size down a toilet).
Click to expand...
Let me make sure that I understand. As an example of the Muslim control of the media, you’re stating we made the media report the threats to European cartoonists? Would we not seek to prevent that from making the news, if we controlled it? Your other examples don’t prove a Muslim control. Gitmo is very famous right now and numerous accusations have come from the place. I have heard all sorts of reports about it, the one about the alleged desecration of the Quran is only one. And if we really did control the media, if we had the kind of influence you believe, you should really wonder why we wouldn’t use that influence to show Islam condemns terror and murder. Doing so would only help us, not hurt us. Can you provide a reasonable explanation as to why a powerful Muslim influence over the media has failed to use that influence as an opportunity to show America and the West that we aren’t all evil terrorists? I have no idea why we wouldn’t do that, if we had the influence you claim we do.
40.png
30miller:
One just never hears the voice of our Muslim brothers standing with us against terrorism.
Click to expand...
I have provided examples of the condemnations you seek.
40.png
30miller:
Your proof is all over the media every day. We never see Muslims speaking out.
Click to expand...
We do speak out. Numerous Muslim scholars have condemned the use of terror in the name of faith. I have provided links to some of them.
40.png
30miller:
So I will take your response for what you say at face value and that is that it is the medias fault.
Click to expand...
I did not say it was the media’s fault. The media must choose what will be reported from thousands of things that take place everyday. And they decide how it will be reported, like if it will be front page or headline news or something else.
40.png
30miller:
I disagree. Were the 6 Holy Muslims simply puppets of the media then?
Click to expand...
No more than other people who make the news.
30millter:
You say that they with their own wherewithall could not get on the media - but they were on every show, everywhere in this case. w/their lawyers, etc. Did the media force them to go on?
Click to expand...
Please state what “wherewithall” means. I could not find it in my English dictionary. Sorry, I know that must be annoying. As to the rest of your statement, are you saying that Muslims forced the media to let them on? And the answer to your question about the media forcing them is no. I am sure they were invited to discuss the issue because media felt it was interesting story.
40.png
30miller:
And I have “every right to demand” Abdullah’s citations as well.
Click to expand...
I have provided some citations. You will have to be more specific about what you want citations for.

Once again, I ask you:
  1. Please provide proof there is a Muslim influence over the media.
  2. Please explain why that influence is not used to show Islam in a positive light, as one would assume the case would be.
Thank you.
40.png
ladygenesis:
do you consider us(catholics) christians??thanks,lg
Click to expand...
Yes, I do. You worship Jesus, correct?
40.png
Valke2:
Nice to meet you.
Click to expand...
Nice to meet you as well.
40.png
Damascus:
I did see this after a cursory glance:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni_fatwas_on_Shi%27as

Yikes.

I dont trust Wiki for solid facts but this was a tad upsetting.
Click to expand...
I wish I could provide you with a reason for some of those things. As I stated before, I do not understand the Sunni-Shi’a conflict. Muslim is Muslim, as far as I am concerned. Insha Allah, we will put those days behind us and it will become a distant memory.
 
Abdullah:

Why when I visit Moslem countries am I told not to show a crucifix nor bring a bible into the country/kingdom?

In fact, why do Moslem countries discourage the open practice and discussion of any non-Islamic religion, including not allowing the building of churches (in my particular experience) outside of “western” compounds?

The big question: why do Moslems claim the Bible to be falsified and full of error but do not produce their claimed “pure” version of the Bible?
 
Damascus said:
Agast? Hardly. I kiss Icons. Doubt I would be agast. I would likely join in.

That too is another thread, and our Sunni Muslim friend here has been tolerant enough with all this talk, and I feel bad that he has to see such a horrible example of witness here.

PM me with notice when you get these threads started and I will be there.

OP, I apologize for all this nonesense. But, I needed to stop it somehow.
Click to expand...
 
Junvir- what is your point by re-posting my post without any commentary?

If you want to discuss kissing Icons or statues let’s go. Start a thread!

BTW- Abdulla- I did not post the link for you to defend the struggle- I only offered you my feelings that it upsets me to see conflict amoung those who worship God. Look at Christians for cyring out loud. Dont think I was trying to make Islam or Sunni/shia look bad, I go across the board with being sad at conflict in all areas of religion. 🙂

Hope you understand!
 
Damascus said:
30 miller-

Muslims dont have a unifyed voice. They have no central authority. Who prey tell will lead this anti-violence Campain you want to see?
Click to expand...
And as long as they just keep thinking and saying that and are simply enabled by those of Damascus’s ilk - guess what? They never will speak out in unison and the answer to your question is ‘no one’.
I see that Damascus says that he taught for about 10 years. In my day we learned pre-school (that’s code for from our parents) about Thomas the little engine. When Thomas thought he couldn’t do something, he kept saying “I think I can, I think I can, I think I can…”. And guess what - Thomas then did it. And no one had to enable him. Let’s ask the Muslims to do the same. Give them at least the same credit as the great Belloc gave them in his prophetical writings in 1938.
The “Evangelicals” never had a unified political voice before just a few years ago. And they have no central authority - as all their individual groups disagree with one another about something or other. And the media certainly did not choose to make their voice heard either.
 
30miller said:
And as long as they just keep thinking and saying that and are simply enabled by those of Damascus’s ilk - guess what? They never will speak out in unison and the answer to your question is ‘no one’.

Um, its more than thinking and saying, After Their prophet Muhhamed died, there was no one man who took his place. Unless you can tell me otherwise- there is no central authority currently for Islam, they are not structured like the Catholic Church that has a central authourity. How clear do you need this to be?
I see that Damascus says that he taught for about 10 years.
Click to expand...
And what do we miss by this?:rolleyes:

Is there some golden nugget of information they have I need to know about?:confused:
Click to expand...
 
Abdullah said:
Wa alaykumus salaam, I am doing well, as I hope you are.

Let me make sure that I understand. As an example of the Muslim control of the media, you’re stating…

Let me stop you right there, Abdullah. I never said Muslims “control” the media. (Aside: and since you build this post on that as a cornerstone, I ask that you restate your position without that “holding it up” as a cornerstone. It is woven throughout your post).
I said that Muslims have already shown that they have the wherewithal (meaning “the money or other means needed for a particular purpose”. Note that I got that from the 1st online dictionary I Googled. You can do that yourself next time, Abdullah. Teach a man to fish …) to get their stories (such as my examples) out in the mainstream media. And not simply on some remote websites where virtually no one in the U.S. ever hears them.

Can you provide a reasonable explanation as to why a powerful Muslim influence over the media has failed to use that influence as an opportunity to show America and the West that we aren’t all evil terrorists?

Now we are getting somewhere. Only what you write here is exactly what my question to you was. And N.B. : You fairly characterize me by using the word ‘influence’ here and not ‘control’ as you started your post with. You are correct in that. But quite frankly, your followup sentence “I have no idea why we wouldn’t do that, if we had the influence you claim we do” doesn’t hold water. See my most recent post here in response to Damascus.
Think like Thomas the little engine who was the smallest and least powerful of all the engines.
Click to expand...
 
Um, its more than thinking and saying, After Their prophet Muhhamed died, there was no one man who took his place. Unless you can tell me otherwise- there is no central authority currently for Islam, they are not structured like the Catholic Church that has a central authourity. How clear do you need this to be?
Code: 
"Muslims" are a splintered religion far less than the "Evangelicals" are are a splintered group of Christians.   And the Evangelicals are who I held up in comparison - not the Catholic Church.   

Don't throw your own strawman into the mix and ask me to speak for or against him. 

 How clear do you need this to be?
I see that Damascus says that he taught for about 10 years.

WHAT? Where prey tell did you see this?

Guess: the white van across the street from your house with the P.I in it…OR…your own posts? Hmmmm…

I think I am giving them credit here. I realize you dont see it that way.

Your are correct. I think you are enabling them.

The “Evangelicals” never had a unified political voice before just a few years ago. And they have no central authority - as all their individual groups disagree with one another about something or other. And the media certainly did not choose to make their voice heard either.

And what do we miss by this?
Is there some golden nugget of information they have I need to know about?
_

(Obviously it wasn’t teaching math where even the least knowledgeable can put 2 and 2 together). I think the golden nugget that is the object of your derision here is beyond your grasp, grasshopper. You must seek out another sensei more attuned to your special needs.
 
30 miller- what posts of mine say I taught for 10 years? None.

Provide the posts, now.
 
Fix your quotes 30 miller so the red is either your words or mine but not both of ours.
If you intend to use ad hominem on me I will not entertain your ramblings anymore.

I may entertain another option however.
 
Damascus said:
30 miller- what posts of mine say I taught for 10 years? None.

Provide the posts, now.
Click to expand...
Damascus - Calm down. Take a deep breath. Other teachers out there are going to take offense at your reaction - you respond as if you have been accused of being the 20th hijacker.
 
Damascus said:
Fix your quotes 30 miller so the red is either your words or mine but not both of ours.
If you intend to use ad hominem on me I will not entertain your ramblings anymore.

I may entertain another option however.
Click to expand...
Though I think my words and your enablings can’t be mistaken for one another, I do apologize if any others think that. I assure you I would never want my words to be taken for yours or vice versa.

And as to your “entertaining” - go right ahead, entertain away. But don’t threaten me, please.
 
30miller said:
Damascus - Calm down. Take a deep breath. Other teachers out there are going to take offense at your reaction - you respond as if you have been accused of being the 20th hijacker.
Click to expand...
Provide the posts.
 
30miller said:
Though I think my words and your enablings can’t be mistaken for one another, I do apologize if any others think that. I assure you I would never want my words to be taken for yours or vice versa.

And as to your “entertaining” - go right ahead, entertain away. But don’t threaten me, please.
Click to expand...
Read the forum rules. You will be quite surprised by them.
 
I tend to despise our MSM (mainstream media, OP) in general.

A few months ago I read an article in the Catholic Register (a wonderful Catholic weekly that I get along with the Wanderer) about the Heathrow terrorism plot.

The article described the scene at the chapel and quoted both a Catholic priest and a British imam. The Imam blamed the increase of terror on two influences in Great Britian. He said that illiterate and uneducated Pakistani imams were actively speading hate among the muslims there. And he also blamed the pandering of certain politicians to the louder/uglier voices of Islam so as to get votes. The imam was quite upset and this was one of the few times I’ve seen such a thing reported.

I found it interesting that this didin’t seem to make the news anywhere else.

I wouldn’t blame the muslims for this! Our media thrives on bad news, and I believe that many of them are so biased that the news they report is barely worthy of being read. You rarely see both sides of the story in anything controversial.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top