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CradleCath
Guest
Which is why everyone goes to Communion.
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Timothysis
Guest
Ah yes, so once again if someone disagrees with a “traditionalist” then he/she is automatically branded a “modernist…” how very tiresome it all gets…I agree!! This is the largest number of the more modernist type Catholics that have posted in the Traditional Catholic forum for, at least, two weeks. They are trying to save you from
… us “Terrible Trads”.npatrol:
PS. I saw nothing judgemental in your post.
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ElizabethPH
Guest
I’m not a modernist either. I don’t have anything against the EF at all. I hope because I go to the OF that you don’t hold that against me. Not all of us are as privleged to have them in our area. The closest one to me is an overnight trip. I believe the OF is the Mass of the Catholic Church just as much as is the EF. And I try to take away the best from it. We cannot determine if someone is well disposed to go to communion or not; except ourselves.
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ChurchTorch
Guest
Do you honestly think the Catholic Church would allow a method of receiving Holy Communion (standing prefaced by a bow) and was less reverent than other methods? I think not…
Receiving kneeling might be different than a bow + standing but it’s certainly not intrinsically more reverent in the eyes of the Church.
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ChurchTorch
Guest
Stop trying to play the martyr. No one really cases if you’re a self-defined “terrible trad.”I agree!! This is the largest number of the more modernist type Catholics that have posted in the Traditional Catholic forum for, at least, two weeks. They are trying to save you from
… us “Terrible Trads”.
PS. I saw nothing judgemental in your post.
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ChurchTorch
Guest
I just sorta chuckle now when I see the misapplication of labels like “liberal” and “modernist.” It’s as if they are telegraphing their bigotry and ignorance. One does really have to wonder about the backgrounds of those who are so quick to put their feet in their respective mouths.
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pro_multis
Guest
Probably a pretty good background. We have people like Justice Scalia and Patrick J Buchanan, you have John Kerry and Nancy Pelosi.
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Hesychios
Guest
A most excellent point.
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Hesychios
Guest
I experienced the same, many times over.
Just don’t go up, everyone else will know you at least have integrity.
This is not really an acceptable argument.
There is such a thing as an examination of conscience, and every Catholic knows how to do this. Whether they do or not is an entirely different question.
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Hesychios
Guest
What is needed is a complete spiritual overhaul, this is not a problem of ritual as much as a general mindset.
The other points were excellent.
So if it is the Faith that changes us, perhaps we had better look back further than the modern canons (the one hour Eucharistic Fast, for example). It starts with us, not settling for the minimums the modern church expects but striving at the maximums the earlier church expected, and not just at Mass, but in every aspect.
Nearly twenty years ago I began to take to a more rigorous fast at Lent and Advent, eschewing meats, fish and rich delights entirely every day, reducing my intake of almost everything else. It puzzled the hell out of my family, but I had become aware it was the historically traditional Catholic fast (a real fast, not abstinence from some little pleasure) and I insisted. This discipline went back further than my mother (born in 1929, memory eternal!) could recall, so she objected too. I ramped up my spiritual reading and prayer life as well. Fellow Catholics all around me reacted as though I had been knocked a bit off-center.
It seems to me there is probably no going back to the truly traditional Latin church as it really was, even for most self described Traditionalists. I think what we have today is a ‘cinematic’ ritual version of the Faith everyone admires so very much, a romantic idealistic recreation that lasts about an hour, after which everything goes back to ‘normal’. The things AmbroseSJ listed in his post resonated with me, they are 'round-the-clock life changing, the church will not bring them back so one has to do it on one’s own.
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Hesychios
Guest
Chewing is ok.
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ProVobis
Guest
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ProVobis
Guest
It’s just a theory. But how else do explain that there is that much disparity between those receiving in the OF vs EF or the Polish OF? Or that more men remain in their pews than women?
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CradleCath
Guest
Elizabeth, I didn’t use the term “modernist” in the way that Saint Pius did in his encyclical called Pascendi Dominici Gregis. That is the reason I added the “more” in front of the word.I used that word as the dictionary does- “being or involving the latest methods, concepts, information, or styles”. I did not want to use the word liberals, because many of you did not…let’s say…do what a liberal would do:
Vote for a pro-abortion political candidate.
Approve of the “3 ring circus” that was Ted Kennedy’s funeral.
Watch & say nothing about the Bishops who are spinning the Pope’s Instruction of ordaining more homosexuals into the priesthood.
However, it does seem that many who attend the Novus Ordo parishes, ARE involved in the “latest methods” of praying the Mass & the newest “concepts” re receiving the Eucharist, you seem to favor the latest “styles” present in our Liturgy that: the overuse of EXTRAordinary EM.'s, lay Lectors & readers used at Mass, etc.
I think that these objections to WORDS are silly & juvenile. I don’t care if you call me a “Trad” or “Traddie”…I often refer to myself in that way.Through my 68 years as a Catholic, I’ve been called a “fisheater” which I am, a “radical” which I’m not, an SSPX’r which I would never be, etc., etc.
I just figure if the shoe doesn’t fit, I’m not going to wear it (nor will I let it some nickname that another uses, upset me.) & I hope that you Catholics who prefer the more modern Mass, take the same stance.
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ChurchTorch
Guest
Stop it. You’re offensive.
I don’t support either John Kerry or Nancy Pelosi. I ALSO don’t really care for either Justice Scalia or particularly Patrick J Buchanan.
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ChurchTorch
Guest
“Modernist” has a very special connotation in the Catholic Church. It can be terribly offensive. I’ve wondered why that those who constantly use the term were not sensitive to that? I suppose in some cases they actually wish to be offensive. In other cases they just don’t have a clue.
Just like those who take great (and ultimately futile) pains to defend their use of “Novus Ordo” or “N.O.” They just can’t help being hostile to that which they personally do not prefer.
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CradleCath
Guest
You have been posting on CA. for 14 days & sent 103 messages…most of them confrontational. Get over yourself.
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Jotobo
Guest
Im pretty sure I didnt question or judge people, but the process. How did it go from that way to this way…
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ElizabethPH
Guest
No no no I’m not saying you judged anyone or anything. I didn’t mean to imply that at all. Perhaps Cradlecath has the answer you want. I’ve heard folks here say something to the effect that “the spirit of Vat II” has something to do with it. The casual approach is not something that Vat II did in effect. But something that was picked up along the way; evolving into what we now perceive to be less reverent.
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prodigalson12
Guest
Seeing this thread deteriorate here, don’t be alarmed when the moderator locks the thread.
Remember folks what Paul talks about with boasting, and how it’s utterly counterproductive, how he interjects with them, telling them that if they want to boast, let them compare themselves to him, how they all fall short in his example if they go down that route.
With my relatives, I try to convey this same thing, none of them go to church, and they started to take offense with me, seeing how hard core I am into this, thinking I was thinking of a comparison, when clearly I tell them, it’s not about that at all, simply get a prayer life started and going, we all area along different spiritual levels, stronger in some areas, weaker in other, and not to make comparisons. We have too many that think well, you must be doing it this way or it’s wrong, others saying it doesn’t matter, it’s all good, yet as an earlier poster stated, we do not know what’s in the heart of the individual after receiving communion, so cannot make any assumptions.
I temper this with knowing, it’s often necessary to go with the flow of sorts, where how it’s received, even though we all have options within it for individual acceptance, the bottom line is, “we receive our Lord”, and this is what counts so much more then any formality that’s in place, and trust me, how we accept it now will itself change yet again, and again, and again, fluctuating between the different manners upon reception of it all. Personally, I’d like to see other ways of doing it as well, such as it would be cool to have a special mass where we receive the body and blood in the same exact manner as Jesus did with the apostles, passing the cup and the bread, hand to hand, sitting at the table, in the same manner as the original offering., but I’m sure, that’s for a future date some time.
The only quam I have with others receiving it, and I’m sure all will agree with me, are those that “dine and dash”, leaving mass before it’s ended after receiving communion, those individuals, unless they have some emergency, or their schedules absolutely dictate, not being able to stick around, are the ones in error.
Remember folks what Paul talks about with boasting, and how it’s utterly counterproductive, how he interjects with them, telling them that if they want to boast, let them compare themselves to him, how they all fall short in his example if they go down that route.
With my relatives, I try to convey this same thing, none of them go to church, and they started to take offense with me, seeing how hard core I am into this, thinking I was thinking of a comparison, when clearly I tell them, it’s not about that at all, simply get a prayer life started and going, we all area along different spiritual levels, stronger in some areas, weaker in other, and not to make comparisons. We have too many that think well, you must be doing it this way or it’s wrong, others saying it doesn’t matter, it’s all good, yet as an earlier poster stated, we do not know what’s in the heart of the individual after receiving communion, so cannot make any assumptions.
I temper this with knowing, it’s often necessary to go with the flow of sorts, where how it’s received, even though we all have options within it for individual acceptance, the bottom line is, “we receive our Lord”, and this is what counts so much more then any formality that’s in place, and trust me, how we accept it now will itself change yet again, and again, and again, fluctuating between the different manners upon reception of it all. Personally, I’d like to see other ways of doing it as well, such as it would be cool to have a special mass where we receive the body and blood in the same exact manner as Jesus did with the apostles, passing the cup and the bread, hand to hand, sitting at the table, in the same manner as the original offering., but I’m sure, that’s for a future date some time.
The only quam I have with others receiving it, and I’m sure all will agree with me, are those that “dine and dash”, leaving mass before it’s ended after receiving communion, those individuals, unless they have some emergency, or their schedules absolutely dictate, not being able to stick around, are the ones in error.
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