Assembly line salvation?

[Malachi4U]

Assembly line salvation?

I subscribe to the Amazing Grace Mission newsletter. In this last issue they were boasting how 202 souls were “saved” at some fair. This group goes around “saving” souls, how? They go to fairs and get people as they walk by. They read a Scripture verse or two… and try to get the person to say the sinners prayer or say they believe in Jn 3:16. The Person is then “saved” for ALL eternity and the next sinner (or Catholic) walks in.

They try to keep two people in the booths. One is the “snagger” who catches the fish as they walk by. They say a few quick catch phrases and if the sinner (or Catholic) gets snagged, they pass them off to the “pitch man”. This “pitch man” reads some verses and tries to get you to say the magic words. Then out the booth with you to make more room for another lost soul. This whole process can take only a few minutes. The quicker the better. Assembly line salvation.

I don’t have a problem per say with witnessing to people at all. But, do you really save a soul with a 5 minute pitch? Say the sinners prayer and you’ve made it to heaven? Say Jesus is you savior once and then forget about Him for the rest of your life and you’re still “saved?”

Any opinions on assembly line salvation? Is this the right way to do it? How could it be improved? Is it a setting a bad example?

 

[BrianH]

They are fulfilling the gospel from their perspective?
Yes.
I know that people would add more to the list of things people have to do to be saved…it is a Catholic discussion board I understand that…
You have used a rather pejorative way to describe this experience but so be it. I do not think there is a minimum time limit on salvation.
BrianH

 

[BrianH]

Malachi4U:

Assembly line salvation?

Say Jesus is you savior once and then forget about Him for the rest of your life and you’re still “saved?”

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There is a flip side to this you realize. That IF can lose your salvation…you could serve him the rest of your life except for that one biggie…mortal sin? I think that is what you call it
If it can be argued one way, it can also be argued from the other extreme.

BrianH

 

[Gnosis]

I think it shows how cheap Christianity, in many instances, has become. Instead of working towards being a better person, salvation is found in the uttering of a single sentence. As Marcus Borg commented, its like “salvation by syllables”.

Isn’t there a difference between faith and belief? I don’t understand what’s so redepmtive about believing a series of highly problematic statements to be accurate descriptions about the nature of God. People can believe the “proper things” about God all they want, but that doesn’t neccessarily change how they interact with people, it doesn’t neccessarily change them.

Faith however, is an entire way of living, it is demonstrated through one’s interactions with people, through the love that they show, through the change it brings about it them. Faith is the perpetual act of living those beliefs that you may have stated. It is not simply a belief, it is a state of being.

 

[CheesusPowerKid]

I just don’t understand how you can say one prayer, even if you mean it with all of your heart, and WHAM, you’re saved…what about the rest of your life? Faith is not one moment of salvation and a life of “breezing through”, it is a constant process of climbing and falling, sinning and repenting, turning away and crawling back…conversion is not once, but innumerable times throughout your life. How can you stand up, say one prayer, and that’s it? I think this is one of the main reasons why I am Catholic, because it takes more than just saying something to be with Jesus, it takes a life of sacrafice and repentance, a life where you would have to say that one prayer a thousand times over and over again to remain in that perfect state of grace.

 

[BrianH]

From my viewpoint, most groups who believe in salvation in this manner, as I do, still spend the vast majority of their time emphasizing the importance of living the
Christian life. No group has a monopoly on being a “better person” Gnosis, whether they adhere to salvation through faith, works, secret knowledge or any combo.
BrianH

 

[aurora77]

BrianH:

From my viewpoint, most groups who believe in salvation in this manner, as I do, still spend the vast majority of their time emphasizing the importance of living the
Christian life.

They may emphasize it, but when it comes down to it, it doesn’t matter how you live you’re life if you’re already saved, right? If a person can say this prayer and be saved, the matter’s settled, how they live their lives stops being important. It seems too good to be true, too easy, and makes me suspicious.

 

[BrianH]

aurora77:

They may emphasize it, but when it comes down to it, it doesn’t matter how you live you’re life if you’re already saved, right? If a person can say this prayer and be saved, the matter’s settled, how they live their lives stops being important. It seems too good to be true, too easy, and makes me suspicious.

Does it make you equally suspicious of a belief system that would have a person not be saved even if they live their life by church teaching 99.9 percent of the time and then lost it because they did whatever it is one does to lose their salvation?
BrianH

 

[aurora77]

BrianH:

Does it make you equally suspicious of a belief system that would have a person not be saved even if they live their life by church teaching 99.9 percent of the time and then lost it because they did whatever it is one does to lose their salvation?
BrianH

Actually, no. If someone willfully does something so bad that it overwhelms that 99.9%, they deserve what they get. We’re all responsible for our own actions. God gives us all the tools necessary to be “saved,” it’s up to us to make use of them.

 

[BrianH]

aurora77:

Actually, no. If someone willfully does something so bad that it overwhelms that 99.9%, they deserve what they get. We’re all responsible for our own actions. God gives us all the tools necessary to be “saved,” it’s up to us to make use of them.

I just do not, after reading scripture, see how salvation is based upon how good you are…and I know that will strike some as an oversimplification…but rest assured, I think it accurately summarizes works based salvation.
BrianH

 

[aurora77]

BrianH:

I just do not, after reading scripture, see how salvation is based upon how good you are…and I know that will strike some as an oversimplification…but rest assured, I think it accurately summarizes works based salvation.
BrianH

Try this: catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp It seems like a good starting place.

I have a question for you–if salvation is not “based upon how good you are” --and I’m not saying that it’s solely based on that, but if goodness and a person’s behavior don’t matter, then why should we try to live good lives? Why not just do whatever we want, be as bad as we want? I hope this doesn’t come across as rude, but it’s something that’s always confused me.

 

[BrianH]

aurora77:

Try this: catholic.com/library/Assurance_of_Salvation.asp It seems like a good starting place.

I have a question for you–if salvation is not “based upon how good you are” --and I’m not saying that it’s solely based on that, but if goodness and a person’s behavior don’t matter, then why should we try to live good lives? Why not just do whatever we want, be as bad as we want? I hope this doesn’t come across as rude, but it’s something that’s always confused me.

We should live good lives because Christ taught us to.
I will also say, in my experiences, sadly, good lives or lack of good lives has little to nothing to do with religion, or lack of religion.
Lastly, and this is just my view, I have never, ever, done a good deed because I thought it influenced my salvation. I did it because it was the right thing to do, which is a result of religious beliefs,(parents did not go to church with me) good values from secular parents, and an innate sense of needing to help others. If you are telling me that people are only good because they are afraid of hell or losing salvation, and i am not saying you are , I find that very very …shallow kindness. You know what i mean?
BrianH

 

[aurora77]

BrianH:

We should live good lives because Christ taught us to.
I will also say, in my experiences, sadly, good lives or lack of good lives has little to nothing to do with religion, or lack of religion.
Lastly, and this is just my view, I have never, ever, done a good deed because I thought it influenced my salvation. I did it because it was the right thing to do, which is a result of religious beliefs,(parents did not go to church with me) good values from secular parents, and an innate sense of needing to help others. If you are telling me that people are only good because they are afraid of hell or losing salvation, and i am not saying you are , I find that very very …shallow kindness. You know what i mean?
BrianH

You’re right, that would be very shallow. We should be doing good because that is the right way to live. I think that someone who is doing good just b/c they think it’ll keep them out of hell has many other issues to deal with.

I think this sort of discussion is really difficult b/c we’re approaching this from two different viewpoints. I was raised Catholic, so I have trouble understanding a different perspective; you’re from a different faith background, same problem.

I agree with you that outward religiousity isn’t always an indicator of a good person/good life. Unfortunately, there are people out there who forget what they learned the second they walk out of church (whatever church that may be). It’s hard being a Christian, it really is. Our faith calls us to “be perfect, just as our (my?) heavenly Father is perfect” I’ve probably mangled that verse and can’t for the life of me remember the citation, but I think you get my meaning. The trouble with that is, we aren’t perfect, we can only work at it. So, the world sees Christians as a bunch of imperfect sinners (and rightly so) and has trouble reconciling our behavior with our beliefs. It’s tough!

 

[BrianH]

aurora77:

You’re right, that would be very shallow. We should be doing good because that is the right way to live. I think that someone who is doing good just b/c they think it’ll keep them out of hell has many other issues to deal with.

I think this sort of discussion is really difficult b/c we’re approaching this from two different viewpoints. I was raised Catholic, so I have trouble understanding a different perspective; you’re from a different faith background, same problem.

I agree with you that outward religiousity isn’t always an indicator of a good person/good life. Unfortunately, there are people out there who forget what they learned the second they walk out of church (whatever church that may be). It’s hard being a Christian, it really is. Our faith calls us to “be perfect, just as our (my?) heavenly Father is perfect” I’ve probably mangled that verse and can’t for the life of me remember the citation, but I think you get my meaning. The trouble with that is, we aren’t perfect, we can only work at it. So, the world sees Christians as a bunch of imperfect sinners (and rightly so) and has trouble reconciling our behavior with our beliefs. It’s tough!

Very well said. I think the world needs Christ and yet…I acknowledge that Christians contribute to the mess…but I still contend we need him!
I will tell you something I am sure you already have heard but maybe someone here has not.
From a Catholic perspective the once saved always saved looks like a license to sin and I do understand that, growing up in a strict Baptist sect for about 10 years(once saved always saved but always giving lists and lists of things not to do), all I heard was how the Catholics can sin all they want and then confess…
Both are extreme oversimplifications…as most things become as they attempt to narrow all of our collective experiences into a concise meaning for individuals.

BH

 

[Pug]

Malachi4U:

Any opinions on assembly line salvation? Is this the right way to do it? How could it be improved? Is it a setting a bad example?

There is nothing wrong with planting a seed during a few chance minutes with a stranger. Could someone respond to the HS in a few short minutes? Yes, I believe so.

Could it be improved? They could add a third booth for dunking at the end. No, no, just a joke.

 

[YahShuaMessiah]

Malachi4U:

Assembly line salvation?

I subscribe to the Amazing Grace Mission newsletter. In this last issue they were boasting how 202 souls were “saved” at some fair. This group goes around “saving” souls, how? They go to fairs and get people as they walk by. They read a Scripture verse or two… and try to get the person to say the sinners prayer or say they believe in Jn 3:16. The Person is then “saved” for ALL eternity and the next sinner (or Catholic) walks in.

They try to keep two people in the booths. One is the “snagger” who catches the fish as they walk by. They say a few quick catch phrases and if the sinner (or Catholic) gets snagged, they pass them off to the “pitch man”. This “pitch man” reads some verses and tries to get you to say the magic words. Then out the booth with you to make more room for another lost soul. This whole process can take only a few minutes. The quicker the better. Assembly line salvation.

I don’t have a problem per say with witnessing to people at all. But, do you really save a soul with a 5 minute pitch? Say the sinners prayer and you’ve made it to heaven? Say Jesus is you savior once and then forget about Him for the rest of your life and you’re still “saved?”

Any opinions on assembly line salvation? Is this the right way to do it? How could it be improved? Is it a setting a bad example?

I think this says it all,…how the concept of “born again” is misunderstood.

Anyone can make a “profession”…evidence of one’s salvation is their fruit.

Allot of fellow Catholics make a “profession” and do not live a “Christian life”. They miss mass, think only of themselves, try and keep up with the Jones…and so forth. So it is not just your so-called “assembly line salvation” of protestants. If so, the Catholic faith has an assembly line as well…it is just a longer, more convoluted line.