Assessing the best form of Government

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NATO to fulfil the 2% GDP defence spending guidelines that they had loosely targeted.
Nothing “loosely” or “targeted” about it: it’s a hard commitment in the treaty, which very few were meeting, relying on the other countries instead. (a classic “free rider” problem).

hawk
 
Interesting. If possible is there a source available for this? Thanks.
 
Real democracy is having EVERYONE vote on EVERYTHING. Democracy isn’t good, because most voters are incompetent voters. Monarchies tend to be more economically stable, and if you have a corrupt ruler, it’s easier to overthrow him. Also, heaven is arranged like a monarchy.

(It’s actually more like a dictatorship in heaven, but still)
 
Interesting. If possible is there a source available for this? Thanks.
You replied to the thread, not a post, so it’s tough to tell which you’re asking about.

If it was the NATO treaty, the source would be the treaty itself, which I"m certain you can find online.

hawk
 
Also, heaven is arranged like a monarchy.

(It’s actually more like a dictatorship in heaven, but still)
Not a fair comparison.

Heaven = an infinitely powerful Creator + all His little creatures. Of course He’s gonna have supreme rule.

Earth = said creatures trying to live together.
 
Democracy isn’t good, because most voters are incompetent voters. Monarchies tend to be more economically stable, and if you have a corrupt ruler, it’s easier to overthrow him.
That is an extremely broad statement. Won’t fly in a civics class.
 
You replied to the thread, not a post, so it’s tough to tell which you’re asking about.

If it was the NATO treaty, the source would be the treaty itself, which I"m certain you can find online.

hawk
With respect I am not interested in reading the whole NATO treaty looking for this. Since you brought it up I wanted to ask if you could point to it succinctly, such as page and paragraph,

ok, never mind then.
 
Here’s the expenditure charts:


The 2% of GDP was agreed to in 2006. The US currently drops 3.5% of GDP into NATO. Only five other NATO nations kicked up the 2% in 2017. Some are well below the 2% threshold. While I love working with our NATO counterparts, and none of us could do our mission without the other, no military member from the larger NATO partners would say they’re surprised by those charts.

The original treaty written in 1949 is only a page long. Here’s a statement from NATO outlining its funding sources, specifically mentioning the 2% guideline. I couldn’t find the original 2006 documents.


This is the treaty as it stands from the original in 1949 through the last NATO member joining in 2009 (Croatia):

 
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I see a lot of conflating of concepts in this thread, as if democracy equals capitalism.

The discussion of socialized health care is a question of economic theory. A given country may have a democracy, republic, kingdom, etc. and have a communist economy.

Similarly, one may have a unicameral government, authoritarian state, dictatatorship, and so forth, with a capitalist economy that allows private ownership. Witness China.

In my opinion, any government that embraces either whole communism or capitalism sells out its constituents. Both of these systems are the product of the Enlightenment, and both empower the elitist few, and a secularized, materialistic, mechanistic society.

This is why I support distributionism over either system, as only it predicates economic control upon broadly practiced private ownership and local control. The Catholic Church is wise in teaching such an economic system, because it stands against globalisation, and the control of our government by powerful banks and corporations, who command huge portions of our economy.

So all this talk about which government is best is beside the point. When President Woodrow Wilson assented to the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913, he effectively sold our rights to a group of private banks, by ensuring the indebtedness of all U.S. citizens to a handful of powerful capitalists. R.I.P. American democracy.
 
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Socialized medicine is great … but when the bills get too high, then they skimp.

And there is no alternative.

So the people cannot easily shop around. If at all.

Shows up in the wait times and queue lengths and in the euthanasia incidences.
 
Is there a way to harness the positives of big government without accumulating the negatives? I think the positives are universalism and reach but the negatives are control of the wealth and culture of the community leading to corruption and domination.
Why do you need big government to have “universalism” of some ideas? If an idea warrants it, people will recognize which ideas have universal application or applicability. Why do you want big government to force the issue, which sorta defeats the definition.

The very sound teachings on Subsidiarity indicate that the action and control should largely remain local, whenever possible.
 
Socialized medicine is great … but when the bills get too high, then they skimp.

And there is no alternative.

So the people cannot easily shop around. If at all.

Shows up in the wait times and queue lengths and in the euthanasia incidences.
You do realize that private insurance does the EXACT same thing, right? Here in the US (I don’t think you’re US, so bear with me if I’m wrong), for example?

It’s not about high bills with socialized medicine. It’s about cost vs benefit vs what is the right thing to do by the patient. They have ethics committees just like American hospitals do - and if you think care isn’t equally rationed in the US, I have plenty of stories I could share. It’s part of what led me back to the military and its socialized health care system.
 
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Why do you need big government to have “universalism” of some ideas? If an idea warrants it, people will recognize which ideas have universal application or applicability. Why do you want big government to force the issue, which sorta defeats the definition.

The very sound teachings on Subsidiarity indicate that the action and control should largely remain local, whenever possible.
Hello Theo,

I am not a blind supporter of big government. I believe I have outlined the dangers regarding it. I would agree that the culture of the people embracing ideas is a great universalism that big government can oppose to our cost.

The universalism of government would be present in things like rolling out the latest cancer treatment technologies (and training) to all hospitals in its jurisdiction; providing deterrent from attack by pooling resources to provide defence; or to oversee the unifying effects of a common currency within a country / region.

As Monte has said above, all of these positives can be negatives if some group like Hitler’s socialists get control of them or Venezuela’s Chavez. I do not think we are immune from such things happening, especially if we put a blind faith in big government as THE solution for social problems.

I do see today’s Progressive movement as making exactly that mistake. How to have the positives without getting ourselves ‘ruled’ by an authoritarian group wanting to use the state to dictate behaviour?

(I am still looking for a good large scale example of Distributism and controls in place that will deter a gradual centralising of power).

Are people in favour of the Switzerland model of citizens voting on matters thus reducing the likelihood of an emergent ruling political class dictating culture?

This voting seems to be on the national level and even the local level such as in accepting someone as a Swiss national.
 
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The Govt plays little role in rolling out a new cancer treatment, beyond the FDA reviewing the drug trials for safety etc. I don’t see the FDA as an example of big government, though what they provide should be done at that level, to prevent duplication of effort. Standardization of regulations is useful in areas of safety

I support the Govt making things available, which is different than mandating their use.
 
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A Catholic Monarchy is the ideal form of government. It is clearly seen when one looks at history what happens when people overthrow monarchies. Those same tradition hating people go after the Church. I view Democracies AND Republics as dictatorships of the ignorant masses.
 
There ARE alternatives to government control of medicine.

For example, there are charitable hospitals such as St. Jude and Shriners.

For example, there are HSA funding arrangements.

For example, there are “sharing” sources of funding.

For example, there are “concierge” organizations.

For example, there are Medical image sharing - Wikipedia

For example, there are medishare … How Does Medi-Share Work? | Medi-Share

For example, there are cash only medical practices … 80% discounts from normal prices: MJH Life Sciences | Informing Healthcare Professionals

Or: http://time.com/4649914/why-the-doctor-takes-only-cash/
 
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The big question is this: is health care a commodity to be bought and sold? or a person’s right regardless of income level?
It is a right, under the 9th amendment, and like other rights, government should not interfere in it. Government doesn’t fulfill my my right to free press by giving me a printing press or computer. Neither should it for other rights including healthcare
 
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