Assistance With A Tough Question

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**I was asked this question by a Protestant friend. I usually do a very good job in defending the Catholic faith, but I am stumped with this::o

**you say Catholics are not praying to the Saints but are actually asking the Saints to pray for them. Okay here are examples of some prayers pulled from a Catholic web site.

Mary, Mother of God
(Queen of All Saints)
Feast Day: January 1
Mother Mary:
On this day, I pray that you will lovingly watch over me as you watched over Jesus. Please help me always to remember the special place you hold in my life. Encourage me to trust in you when things go wrong and turn to you when all is well. AMEN.

Saint Thomas Aquinas
(Patron of Catholic Schools)
Feast Day: January 28
Saint Thomas:
I pray that the story of your life inspires me to do the things that I am meant to do. Watch over me when I am in school and as I study while I am at home. Help me not only to love learning, but also to love and honor our Lord as deeply as you did. AMEN.

Saint Bernadette
(Lived a Life of Joyful Suffering) Feast Day: February 18
Saint Bernadette:
You were just a young girl when Our Lady appeared to you, and you listened carefully to all the Blessed Mother told you. I ask you to help me to pray with all my heart for those who suffer. May I grow to love the rosary, your special prayer to Mary. AMEN.

Saint Patrick
(Patron of Ireland)
Feast Day: March 17
Saint Patrick:
I pray that I am able to embrace strangers with the same love and respect you showed the Irish. Please help me to pray often to all the Persons of the Blessed Trinity, keeping in mind the images of the shamrock – three leaves and one stem. AMEN.

Saint Joseph
(Patron of the Universal Church)
Feast Day: March 19
Saint Joseph:
You quietly cared for Jesus and Mary, ever mindful of the importance of family. I pray that I may learn from your example so that my love for my family grows ever stronger. Help me to be a person of trust, someone who always places faith in God’s word. AMEN.

Saint Joan of Arc
(Patroness of France)
Feast Day: March 30
Saint Joan:
You were very courageous as you led soldiers to defend Frances against her enemies. May I be as brace as you as I live to practice my Faith every day. Help me to pray to my guardian angel and to seek his protection daily. AMEN.

In not one of these prayers are you asking the Saint in question to pray for you or intercede on your behalf. There were many other prayers just like these but I felt these examples were plenty.

I’d appreciate some help with this. Thanks and God bless.
 
Your friend is looking at these prayers with Protestant-eyes. Just like we look at someone whom we admire and try in emulate, the prayers are just that - their faith in Christ is something we strive to emulate, with Mary being the Supreme Saint. The help that we petition from the saints is the hope that we can see those qualities in them, which in turn can help us get closer to Christ and give us reason to preservere in holiness.
 
Jaguar said:
**I was asked this question by a Protestant friend. I usually do a very good job in defending the Catholic faith, but I am stumped with this::o **

you say Catholics are not praying to the Saints but are actually asking the Saints to pray for them. Okay here are examples of some prayers pulled from a Catholic web site.

Mary, Mother of God
(Queen of All Saints)
Feast Day: January 1
Mother Mary:
On this day, I pray that you will lovingly watch over me as you watched over Jesus. Please help me always to remember the special place you hold in my life. Encourage me to trust in you when things go wrong and turn to you when all is well. AMEN.

Saint Thomas Aquinas
(Patron of Catholic Schools)
Feast Day: January 28
Saint Thomas:
I pray that the story of your life inspires me to do the things that I am meant to do. Watch over me when I am in school and as I study while I am at home. Help me not only to love learning, but also to love and honor our Lord as deeply as you did. AMEN.

Saint Bernadette
(Lived a Life of Joyful Suffering) Feast Day: February 18
Saint Bernadette:
You were just a young girl when Our Lady appeared to you, and you listened carefully to all the Blessed Mother told you. I ask you to help me to pray with all my heart for those who suffer. May I grow to love the rosary, your special prayer to Mary. AMEN.

Saint Patrick
(Patron of Ireland)
Feast Day: March 17
Saint Patrick:
I pray that I am able to embrace strangers with the same love and respect you showed the Irish. Please help me to pray often to all the Persons of the Blessed Trinity, keeping in mind the images of the shamrock – three leaves and one stem. AMEN.

Saint Joseph
(Patron of the Universal Church)
Feast Day: March 19
Saint Joseph:
You quietly cared for Jesus and Mary, ever mindful of the importance of family. I pray that I may learn from your example so that my love for my family grows ever stronger. Help me to be a person of trust, someone who always places faith in God’s word. AMEN.

Saint Joan of Arc
(Patroness of France)
Feast Day: March 30
Saint Joan:
You were very courageous as you led soldiers to defend Frances against her enemies. May I be as brace as you as I live to practice my Faith every day. Help me to pray to my guardian angel and to seek his protection daily. AMEN.

In not one of these prayers are you asking the Saint in question to pray for you or intercede on your behalf. There were many other prayers just like these but I felt these examples were plenty.

I’d appreciate some help with this. Thanks and God bless.
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There are three types of honor we as Catholics pay to those residing in Heaven.
  1. Latria - Worship due to God alone
  2. Hyperdulia - The veneration offered to the Blessed Virgin Mary
  3. Dulia - The honor given to the rest of the saints
We as Catholics do not simply pray to the saints and ask them for their prayers. We also pay them honor for their accomplishments. Even a Protestant will compliment another human being for earning a degree at university, winning a championship, etc. So, why then is it that they cannot stand it when we Catholics honor the saints? We are not paying the saints Latria; we are instead using the lesser form of honor, Dulia (similar to saying “good job friend”). In the above examples, which your friend gave, not once is there a reference to elevating a saint to Latria. Whether a brother or sister here on Earth accomplishes something honorable or a brother or sister who is in Heaven has done so, there is nothing wrong with saying, “thank you” or “I wish I was strong enough to have done that” or simply “good job brother.”

I would ask your Protestant friend if when he/she talks to his/her other Protestant friends, the only thing that she ever says to them is, “will you pray for me?” If the answer to that question is no, then why would he/she expect that Catholics only speak to our brothers and sisters when we want their prayers and ignore them the rest of the time.
 
Not a single one of these prayers is a prayer of worship. They recognize qualities in the Saint that one might recognize in a friend or ones mother. They do ask for help, but again no more than one might ask of a person living among us, maybe even next door. None of the prayers recognize the saint as being equal with God. I think it is a mistake to say that Catholics only ask saints to pray for or with them because it simply isn’t so. Also why should they not have the power to perform certain miracles in Jesus’ name. Peter and other disciples have been shown in the Bible as being able to do so. Jesuws even said that those who believed in him would perform even greater miracles than he did when he walked the earth. It is scriptural dude.
 
Jaguar said:
**I was asked this question by a Protestant friend. I usually do a very good job in defending the Catholic faith, but I am stumped with this::o **

you say Catholics are not praying to the Saints but are actually asking the Saints to pray for them. Okay here are examples of some prayers pulled from a Catholic web site.

Mary, Mother of God
(Queen of All Saints)
Feast Day: January 1
Mother Mary:
On this day, I pray that you will lovingly watch over me as you watched over Jesus. Please help me always to remember the special place you hold in my life. Encourage me to trust in you when things go wrong and turn to you when all is well. AMEN.

Saint Thomas Aquinas
(Patron of Catholic Schools)
Feast Day: January 28
Saint Thomas:
I pray that the story of your life inspires me to do the things that I am meant to do. Watch over me when I am in school and as I study while I am at home. Help me not only to love learning, but also to love and honor our Lord as deeply as you did. AMEN.

Saint Bernadette
(Lived a Life of Joyful Suffering) Feast Day: February 18
Saint Bernadette:
You were just a young girl when Our Lady appeared to you, and you listened carefully to all the Blessed Mother told you. I ask you to help me to pray with all my heart for those who suffer. May I grow to love the rosary, your special prayer to Mary. AMEN.

Saint Patrick
(Patron of Ireland)
Feast Day: March 17
Saint Patrick:
I pray that I am able to embrace strangers with the same love and respect you showed the Irish. Please help me to pray often to all the Persons of the Blessed Trinity, keeping in mind the images of the shamrock – three leaves and one stem. AMEN.

Saint Joseph
(Patron of the Universal Church)
Feast Day: March 19
Saint Joseph:
You quietly cared for Jesus and Mary, ever mindful of the importance of family. I pray that I may learn from your example so that my love for my family grows ever stronger. Help me to be a person of trust, someone who always places faith in God’s word. AMEN.

Saint Joan of Arc
(Patroness of France)
Feast Day: March 30
Saint Joan:
You were very courageous as you led soldiers to defend Frances against her enemies. May I be as brace as you as I live to practice my Faith every day. Help me to pray to my guardian angel and to seek his protection daily. AMEN.

In not one of these prayers are you asking the Saint in question to pray for you or intercede on your behalf. There were many other prayers just like these but I felt these examples were plenty.

I’d appreciate some help with this. Thanks and God bless.
Click to expand...

All Christian prayer is addressed to God - all of it. Including prayers to His Saints​

Prayer to God is addressed to God Himself - prayers to His Saints are addressed to them only (so to speak) derivatively: that is, on the understanding that without God, & apart from God, they are nothing, just as we who pray to them are nothing. Not only would the saints mentioned above be unable to help us - they would not even exist, & neither would we.

IOW we & they are creatures - God is the Creator & Lord of all creatures. So there is a vast difference between how we pray to God, & how we pray to them; so vast, the sheer difference between God, & His creatures can be crossed only from His side - He can lower Himself so as to become man; but even God cannot make a creature into God.

We adore God, & sacrifice to Him - we do not adore creatures, nor do we sacrifice to them. This is a matter less of rules than of responding appropriately. God we have to love totally - the saints we love so far as they remind us of Him. Creatures are good in so far as they reflect their Infinitely Good Creator - whether Saints or food or drink or nature or our neighbour or anything else: no further.

If authority in Church & state is from Christ, & is not made illegitimate by His words “All authority is given to me, in heaven and on earth” (Matt.28), then the authority of a policeman, priest, President or bishop is derived from His. Christians seem to have no problem adoring God in Church on Sunday, & showing respect to their superiors in Church & State on Monday - what they do on Monday towards their superiors, is not felt to be opposed to what they do on Sunday toward God. Protestants seem not to argue that an Evangelical who defers to the authority of the US President is somehow being unfaithful to God in doing so. On the contrary - the obedience of the subject is readily taken as an example of good Christian conduct, founded on such texts as Romans 13.

We make the same distinction: to recognise the holiness of the Saints is to recognise the Holiness of God in them. God does not lose any Holiness by this, just as Christ loses no authority when authority on earth is recognised as His, even though it is exercised by our fellow-creatures.

The Church does speak of “praying to” the Saints - for we do both: we worship God with them, & ask them for their help. There is no need to sacrifice “prayer to” them, to “prayer with” them - the two kinds of prayer complement one another. ##
 
Their problem is that they act as if we expect the saint in question to do anything by their own power, when we know better, (and they do too. How often do they say they are going to do something for God and yet they mean that they will do whatever they attempt if God helps them.)

How doofus it is that they assume the worst from Catholics and yet fail to hold themselves to that same silly standard.
 
Jaguar said:
**I **.

In not one of these prayers are you asking the Saint in question to pray for you or intercede on your behalf. There were many other prayers just like these but I felt these examples were plenty.

I’d appreciate some help with this. Thanks and God bless.
Click to expand...
in every one of the prayers cited, we are asking for the same type of help we would from a good friend, parent, pastor, or co-religionist. I doubt very much your friend’s denomination forbids studying doctrine, such as the trinity, together or forbids members from giving advice, help and counsel in times of need, stress, for strengthening each other’s faith. I am sure they do not forbid praying for each other, setting a good example to each other in living the Christian life.

read the prayers again, and for the name of the saint, substitute the name of the person’s pastor, or Billy Graham or any notable, holy leader in their church. Is there any one of these petitions that could not be addressed to such a person.

Pastor, I have difficulty understanding the trinity, can you help me.

Pastor, I want to pray more, to be closer to Christ in prayer, but I don’t know how, please guide me in how to pray.

Pastor, you seem to have such a strong faith in spite of adversity, please help me build such a faith.

Pastor, when I go away to college I am afraid I will be tempted to fall into bad habits, find bad friends, and fall away from practicing our faith. Will you write to me sometimes, or give me a good book to read, or help me find some good bible verses to pray with? May I call you sometimes if I need your advice?
 
Hi Jaguar -
Yes, we pray to saints. We do not worship saints. The only reason he thinks we cannot pray to saints is that “it isn’t in the bible.” Well, all that we believe as Catholics squares with the bible. Not all of it is in the bible. All of the precepts required to pray to saints is in the bible.
Here is the Sub Tuum Praesidium, a prayer from the year 250.

We fly to thy patronage,
O holy Mother of God;
despise not our petitions
in our necessities,
but deliver us always
from all dangers,
O glorious and blessed Virgin.
Amen.

We have been praying to saints from the beginning.
Subrosa
 
puzzleannie said:
in every one of the prayers cited, we are asking for the same type of help we would from a good friend, parent, pastor, or co-religionist.
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I agree wholeheartedly. We would not hesitate to ask Christian friends for help and assistance in our spiritual life. And we would not be accused of idolatry for doing so. Why should anyone not balk at asking help of earthly friends but shy away from asking help from friends in heaven?
 
Now that you’ve bumped it up, I can only repeat what Annie said:
puzzleannie said:
in every one of the prayers cited, we are asking for the same type of help we would from a good friend, parent, pastor, or co-religionist. I doubt very much your friend’s denomination forbids studying doctrine, such as the trinity, together or forbids members from giving advice, help and counsel in times of need, stress, for strengthening each other’s faith. I am sure they do not forbid praying for each other, setting a good example to each other in living the Christian life.

read the prayers again, and for the name of the saint, substitute the name of the person’s pastor, or Billy Graham or any notable, holy leader in their church. Is there any one of these petitions that could not be addressed to such a person.

Pastor, I have difficulty understanding the trinity, can you help me.

Pastor, I want to pray more, to be closer to Christ in prayer, but I don’t know how, please guide me in how to pray.

Pastor, you seem to have such a strong faith in spite of adversity, please help me build such a faith.

Pastor, when I go away to college I am afraid I will be tempted to fall into bad habits, find bad friends, and fall away from practicing our faith. Will you write to me sometimes, or give me a good book to read, or help me find some good bible verses to pray with? May I call you sometimes if I need your advice?
Click to expand...
Why is it so hard to understand having good prayer partners and faith friends in heaven, when nobody questions having them here on earth?
 
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