Assistant catechist thinking about changing parish

[DiZent]

I have been unhappy at my parish for quite some time. The former pastor was widely disliked, but we had several very good associate pastors during his tenure. Declining membership and financial issues led him to a reassignment as an associate at another parish. The new pastor is very conservative & he made changes. Drastic changes. The music director & DRE both quit. I was involved in the music (bell choir) and VBS, both of which were cancelled, as were the contemporary choir & the Why Catholic program. The old hymnals were replaced, and the song selections rarely included any contemporary selections or favorites (which are in the new hymnals, but not selected) Since we started the new translation of the Missal, it is worse. We use the chant settings for the Mass parts, which I learned to sing, but they are awful. I have heard beautiful settings for the new translation, but we don’t use them. This year, in order to take my focus off the fact that the music is awful (I offer it up, but that doesn’t make me like it any better), I volunteered as an assistant catechist and work with the Kindergarten Religious Ed class. We have a new (& really good) DRE, and I love doing this. The problem is I no longer attend Mass at this parish. I started attending Mass at the neighboring parish because the music there is wonderful, but the pastor there is very liberal and not in compliance. He has not implemented much of the new translation, but he is very down to earth. He says whatever he thinks, and sometimes it is off the wall. Many others from my parish have already transferred to this neighboring parish, and some members of my husband’s family also attend there. So, what to do? Stay with the Religious Ed program at my current parish, but attend Mass elsewhere (because I am really done attending Mass there until they fix the music), or transfer to the neighboring parish, where they are in need of solid teaching (to counterbalance a loving pastor who often says things that could be misconstrued).

 

[revert_jen]

Sorry, are you saying that you are thinking of changing from a parish that uses chant (supposed to be given “pride of place” in liturgical music according to Vatican II) to a parish where the pastor is openly disobedient to the magisterium (remember that using the new translation is NOT optional), because you don’t happen to like chant right away? Or is there some other reason?

I’m sorry, I know I must have missed something here, but maybe you could add to your description of the situation so people can understand better?

–Jen

 

[CDB1718]

Parish 1:
Fidelity to church teachings.
Adherence to church rules and regulations.
Catechesis is in line with church teachings.
New pastor making positive changes after disliked pastor moved.
I’m active in catechetical and music ministries.
Music I don’t like. It is new, still getting used to and improving but is not where I’d like it.

Parish 2:
Does not have fidelity to church teachings.
Does not have adherence to church rules and regulations.
Catechesis is not in line with church teachings.
Same pastor continues to make off-the-wall and inappropriate comments.
Some of my friends or family now go there.
Music I like. It doesn’t have fidelity or adherence, but it sounds good.

:yukonjoe: And there’s a real debate here for you? Either you would choose music over your faith or you are setting up a straw man excuse to go to the other parish.

 

[DiZent]

Sorry, are you saying that you are thinking of changing from a parish that uses chant (supposed to be given “pride of place” in liturgical music according to Vatican II) to a parish where the pastor is openly disobedient to the magisterium (remember that using the new translation is NOT optional), because you don’t happen to like chant right away? Or is there some other reason?

I’m sorry, I know I must have missed something here, but maybe you could add to your description of the situation so people can understand better?

–Jen

If the pastor at the neighboring parish was in compliance, I would have already changed membership. The music is important to me. I am happy for those who appreciate chant but I do not like it. It is irritating and unpleasant for me.

 

[Tommy72]

Being true to the teachings of Christ and his Church are more important than how the music sounds. Stick with the Truth!

 

[revert_jen]

If the pastor at the neighboring parish was in compliance, I would have already changed membership. The music is important to me. I am happy for those who appreciate chant but I do not like it. It is irritating and unpleasant for me.

Well, if you stick with chant, you will eventually like it better, especially if you do so in an attitude of obedience to Church teaching and a feeling of continuity with the saints since the 5th century. This I know from experience. For me it took about a year from “Well, I really miss the harmony and descants and all of the music I’m used to, but the Church says this music is the best kind (at least in the west) for liturgical music, so I’ll just trudge through it,” to “Wow. Chant is beautiful–what a fitting way to pray in song!” The music is extremely important to me as well, but it has to be less important than doing God’s will. It helped that I was embarrassed that I didn’t really like the music that the Church has said should have pride of place, so I didn’t talk about how much I disliked it. It was easier to come to like it because of that.

And if you stick with a disobedient pastor, you will like that better eventually. This decision matters. I would spend a lot of time in prayer, and possibly read Sacrosanctum Concilium (vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19631204_sacrosanctum-concilium_en.html), before deciding anything permanent.

–Jen

 

[KSB]

Diane,

If you want to stay a member at your parish, but go to another just for Mass, I wouldn’t do that on a regular basis because I would feel my sense of parish community weaken. Although, it’s certainly nice to visit other parishes in the area.

Have you prayed about it? The liberal parish does not sound like a good deal to me. The enticing music may be a trick to move you away from sound teachings at your current parish since it’s a soft spot for you.

 

[DiZent]

Parish 1:
Fidelity to church teachings.
Yes
Adherence to church rules and regulations.
Yes
Catechesis is in line with church teachings.
Yes
New pastor making positive changes after disliked pastor moved.
Some changes are positive and some are not. I had no problems with the old pastor, but he was an odd duck
I’m active in catechetical and music ministries.
I am no longer active in the music ministry because the music program was decimated.
Music I don’t like. It is new, still getting used to and improving but is not where I’d like it.
I am never going to like chant. It is like screeching chalk on a chalkboard to me.

Parish 2:
Does not have fidelity to church teachings.
I would not go so far. The people there are faithful. They do respond “and with your spirit”
Does not have adherence to church rules and regulations.
I would not go so far. The people there are faithful.
Catechesis is not in line with church teachings.
I have spoken with the DRE. They use Pflaum Weekly Gospel for Faith formation. Nothing wrong with that program
Same pastor continues to make off-the-wall and inappropriate comments.
Yes, this is true. This is what bothers me.
Some of my friends or family now go there.
Which makes it a welcoming atmosphere
Music I like. It doesn’t have fidelity or adherence, but it sounds good.
Wrong. If the music was appropriate last year, it still is.

:yukonjoe: And there’s a real debate here for you? Either you would choose music over your faith or you are setting up a straw man excuse to go to the other parish.

Some of your opinion about my dilemma is on point, but some is not. If the pastor at Parish #2 was in compliance, I would have changed already.

 

[Equites_Christi]

As a music student, a former (hopefully soon to be again) organist and cantor, and someone who fully intends on entering a career in music, I can sympathize that music is important to you.

But even I can admit that the music of a parish is NOT more important than the orthodoxy of its pastor. The ‘accidentals’ of a Mass are in no way more important than the integrity of its theology or fidelity.

I’m sorry that this isn’t being put to you very gently, but better aesthetics is not a good reason to switch to a parish of deficient faith. That kind of church-shopping is really a Protestant idea.

 

[DiZent]

Diane,

If you want to stay a member at your parish, but go to another just for Mass, I wouldn’t do that on a regular basis because I would feel my sense of parish community weaken. Although, it’s certainly nice to visit other parishes in the area.

Have you prayed about it? The liberal parish does not sound like a good deal to me. The enticing music may be a trick to move you away from sound teachings at your current parish since it’s a soft spot for you.

This is what I have been doing. There are many parishes within easy driving distance. Between the old pastor that was widely disliked and the new one that made drastic changes, the parish membership has dropped significantly, most of them going to the liberal one down the road. I can sing the chant settings for the Mass responses - they are not difficult. But when I heard the other settings, they are so much better.

 

[DiZent]

As a music student, a former (hopefully soon to be again) organist and cantor, and someone who fully intends on entering a career in music, I can sympathize that music is important to you.

But even I can admit that the music of a parish is NOT more important than the orthodoxy of its pastor. The ‘accidentals’ of a Mass are in no way more important than the integrity of its theology or fidelity.

I’m sorry that this isn’t being put to you very gently, but better aesthetics is not a good reason to switch to a parish of deficient faith. That kind of church-shopping is really a Protestant idea.

I am a revert. I came back in 1985. I don’t think the current atmosphere would have welcomed me.

I would not go so far as to say the people are deficient of faith; these are faithful Catholics. Many of them were former members of my current parish, that either left because of the old pastor who was an odd duck, or the new one who they found too strict. But I do think that not fully implementing the new translation and the off the wall comments of this pastor could mislead.

 

[KSB]

This is what I have been doing. There are many parishes within easy driving distance. Between the old pastor that was widely disliked and the new one that made drastic changes, the parish membership has dropped significantly, most of them going to the liberal one down the road. I can sing the chant settings for the Mass responses - they are not difficult. But when I heard the other settings, they are so much better.

I feel for you here. When I came back to the Church after being fallen away for 20 years, I didn’t really want to become a member of the parish I grew up in for various reasons, although I still reside in that parish. I was thinking about becoming a member of a neighboring parish I was familiar with. However, something told me stick to your old parish. I did, and I became a member. I regretted it at first because there were some enticing things about the neighboring parish which were social in nature. However, I decided to give it some time, and I’m glad I did. I made an effort to put aside my negativity about my old parish, and I’ve discovered some wonderful things inside of me happening. I’m in the right parish.

The more you talk of people leaving your parish for the liberal one, the more I’m not liking the other parish. Maybe you can hold off on your decision. Give it some more time. You’re not tied to your current parish, you can eventually change if you want to. But maybe God is planning on doing some wonderful things with you and for you in your Relig. Ed. class. Maybe your current parish needs you. And pray, pray, pray.

 

[DiZent]

I feel for you here. When I came back to the Church after being fallen away for 20 years, I didn’t really want to become a member of the parish I grew up in for various reasons, although I still reside in that parish. I was thinking about becoming a member of a neighboring parish I was familiar with. However, something told me stick to your old parish. I did, and I became a member. I regretted it at first because there were some enticing things about the neighboring parish which were social in nature. However, I decided to give it some time, and I’m glad I did. I made an effort to put aside my negativity about my old parish, and I’ve discovered some wonderful things inside of me happening. I’m in the right parish.

The more you talk of people leaving your parish for the liberal one, the more I’m not liking the other parish. Maybe you can hold off on your decision. Give it some more time. You’re not tied to your current parish, you can eventually change if you want to. But maybe God is planning on doing some wonderful things with you and for you in your Relig. Ed. class. And pray, pray, pray.

Thanks for your kindness and understanding. It has been 2 years since the former music director & DRE left. I thought that becoming an assistant catechist would give me something else to focus on besides my sense of loss regarding the quality of the music.

 

[NorthTexan88]

I have been unhappy at my parish for quite some time. The former pastor was widely disliked, but we had several very good associate pastors during his tenure. Declining membership and financial issues led him to a reassignment as an associate at another parish. The new pastor is very conservative & he made changes. Drastic changes. The music director & DRE both quit. I was involved in the music (bell choir) and VBS, both of which were cancelled, as were the contemporary choir & the Why Catholic program. The old hymnals were replaced, and the song selections rarely included any contemporary selections or favorites (which are in the new hymnals, but not selected) Since we started the new translation of the Missal, it is worse. We use the chant settings for the Mass parts, which I learned to sing, but they are awful. I have heard beautiful settings for the new translation, but we don’t use them. This year, in order to take my focus off the fact that the music is awful (I offer it up, but that doesn’t make me like it any better), I volunteered as an assistant catechist and work with the Kindergarten Religious Ed class. We have a new (& really good) DRE, and I love doing this. The problem is I no longer attend Mass at this parish. I started attending Mass at the neighboring parish because the music there is wonderful, but the pastor there is very liberal and not in compliance. He has not implemented much of the new translation, but he is very down to earth. He says whatever he thinks, and sometimes it is off the wall. Many others from my parish have already transferred to this neighboring parish, and some members of my husband’s family also attend there. So, what to do? Stay with the Religious Ed program at my current parish, but attend Mass elsewhere (because I am really done attending Mass there until they fix the music), or transfer to the neighboring parish, where they are in need of solid teaching (to counterbalance a loving pastor who often says things that could be misconstrued).

Sorry to be blunt…but are you crazy???
You go to a parish that many of us would die to be able to go to and you dnt want to go bc of chant…the preferred style of music? I agree with the above poster that this is a very Protestant idea way of thinking (I was one ) and to be quite frank, your kind of thought is one thing that is wrong with the Church today. You would rather choose to leave an orthodox priest who is celebrating the OF correctly for a liberal parish where it’s not being done…and if you are offering up “suffering” for having to deal with how the mass SHOULD be celebrated then you I can guess are not familiar with what V2 ACTUALLY taught. I agree with the poster who stated you need to read sacrosanctum…
Sry but have 100% zero sympathy for you… Hope you come around

Ps. Sry to seem harsh. Dnt mean to be. It’s just this kind of thinking that I thought I had left behind. I really will be praying for you

 

[KSB]

Thanks for your kindness and understanding. It has been 2 years since the former music director & DRE left. I thought that becoming an assistant catechist would give me something else to focus on besides my sense of loss regarding the quality of the music.

You’ve heard some good pros and cons tonight. If you do decide to switch parishes, I would strongly encourage you to do so with an intention to teach/correct your fellow parishoners any chance you get (and make some opportunities) so that they can learn the true teachings of the Church.

PS: I don’t condemn you.

 

[DiZent]

Sorry to be blunt…but are you crazy???
You go to a parish that many of us would die to be able to go to and you dnt want to go bc of chant…the preferred style of music? I agree with the above poster that this is a very Protestant idea way of thinking (I was one ) and to be quite frank, your kind of thought is one thing that is wrong with the Church today. You would rather choose to leave an orthodox priest who is celebrating the OF correctly for a liberal parish where it’s not being done…and if you are offering up “suffering” for having to deal with how the mass SHOULD be celebrated then you I can guess are not familiar with what V2 ACTUALLY taught. I agree with the poster who stated you need to read sacrosanctum…
Sry but have 100% zero sympathy for you… Hope you come around

Ps. Sry to seem harsh. Dnt mean to be. It’s just this kind of thinking that I thought I had left behind. I really will be praying for you

When the former music director and DRE left, I felt a profound sense of loss, and the quality of the music has went downhill. It is proper, but it is awful. What I offer up is my discontent, in hopes that I will be granted an appreciation for this music that I do not like. If the liberal pastor were in compliance I would have already switched. It is because I am troubled by his off the wall comments that I have hesitated. I love the new translation, but not the ICEL chant setting for the Mass responses. There are many other beautiful settings, but we don’t use them. I love the Religious Ed program at my current parish, and becoming an assistant catechist is what is holding me there.

 

[k8e308]

You keep speaking about the quality of the music, and it makes me wonder if it is indeed the quality that is lacking. Is it possible that it is not the music, but the performance thereof that is the problem?

I can’t imagine chant sounding like nails on a chalkboard to anyone unless it is performed incorrectly or the person hearing it has an aural problem. Since I assume the latter does not apply, I can only conclude some fault in the performance.

I’m sorry if I’m completely off-base here, but I’ve had to endure a few Masses with mutilated music, and that is what repeatedly came to mind while reading this thread.

 

[DiZent]

You keep speaking about the quality of the music, and it makes me wonder if it is indeed the quality that is lacking. Is it possible that it is not the music, but the performance thereof that is the problem?

I can’t imagine chant sounding like nails on a chalkboard to anyone unless it is performed incorrectly or the person hearing it has an aural problem. Since I assume the latter does not apply, I can only conclude some fault in the performance.

I’m sorry if I’m completely off-base here, but I’ve had to endure a few Masses with mutilated music, and that is what repeatedly came to mind while reading this thread.

You could be right, that the performance is off. When they sing in Latin, there is no translation sheet for the congregation. When they sing in English, it is repetitive and boring. I can’t wait until they get done with it. The ICEL chants for the Mass responses are OK. I can sing them - they are not difficult, but not as good as the other settings.

 

[DiZent]

I found the settings I like online. Mass of Glory, composed by Ken Canedo and Bob Hurd and revised in compliance with the new translation. This is the music of the Mass that echos in my heart all week. I suppose I could attend the quiet Mass on Sunday and listen to the CD during the week.

 

[DiZent]

I found the settings I like online. Mass of Glory, composed by Ken Canedo and Bob Hurd and revised in compliance with the new translation. This is the music of the Mass that echos in my heart all week. I suppose I could attend the quiet Mass on Sunday and listen to the CD during the week.

Actually, I had only heard some of the responses. The Glory to God in this setting is not so good. But the Alleluia, the Holy, Holy, Holy, Save us Savior of the World, the Amen are beautiful.