Assistant catechist thinking about changing parish

[Hoernchen]

I just listened to some of the pieces of Massof Glory on youtube . Let’s just say that I would not bother to visit a church a second time where this kind of music is sung at Mass.
That said, once a month I spend a weekend in the big city (Berlin) to spend time at a wonderful church that offers perpetual adoration and confession 12 hours a day. Their daily midday mass is a quiet mass which I actually prefer above anything else (having to sing 12 songs in the stretch of an hour just stresses me out!) but their evening Mass each day is set with contemporary music played on synthesizer, guitars and flutes.
I avoid these and rather go to Mass at our cathedral which has a great Choralschola (don’t know the english word for it, but Here is an exampleyoutube.com/watch?v=AJ29GwfVHJ4
and traditional hymns are sung.

 

[DiZent]

I just listened to some of the pieces of Massof Glory on youtube . Let’s just say that I would not bother to visit a church a second time where this kind of music is sung at Mass.
That said, once a month I spend a weekend in the big city (Berlin) to spend time at a wonderful church that offers perpetual adoration and confession 12 hours a day. Their daily midday mass is a quiet mass which I actually prefer above anything else (having to sing 12 songs in the stretch of an hour just stresses me out!) but their evening Mass each day is set with contemporary music played on synthesizer, guitars and flutes.
I avoid these and rather go to Mass at our cathedral which has a great Choralschola (don’t know the english word for it, but Here is an exampleyoutube.com/watch?v=AJ29GwfVHJ4
and traditional hymns are sung.

Yeah, my preferences are definitely for more contemporary style and I would love the evening Mass at your church. I like traditional English hymns, too, like Faith of our Fathers, Alleluia Sing to Jesus, and even a couple of Latin ones. What you posted was well sung, I think, but it would not “echo in my heart” during the week. If you listened to the Glory to God, of the Mass of Glory, on You Tube, I agree with you. It was not so good. Since we are not using the Gloria during Lent, I had not heard that part of the setting. The piece they use for the Lamb of God (at the liberal parish) is a great song, but it does not belong “in place of”.

 

[Joannm]

Our parish has been using the chant setting during Lent because they are more sober and keeping with the tone of Lent. At Easter we will switch to a more upbeat, for lack of a better word, setting. I do love chant, but I can understand that unless it is done well it can be a bit hard on the ears. We are only hoping our deacon can get through the 14 minutes of the Exsultet without losing pitch. It Exsultet is exquisite, especially with the revised text, but if not done well people won’t pay attention to the beautiful words.

There are other chant settings of the Mass texts other than the ones in the Missal that are a bit nicer and a bit more melodic.

 

[DiZent]

Our parish has been using the chant setting during Lent because they are more sober and keeping with the tone of Lent. At Easter we will switch to a more upbeat, for lack of a better word, setting. I do love chant, but I can understand that unless it is done well it can be a bit hard on the ears. We are only hoping our deacon can get through the 14 minutes of the Exsultet without losing pitch. It Exsultet is exquisite, especially with the revised text, but if not done well people won’t pay attention to the beautiful words.

There are other chant settings of the Mass texts other than the ones in the Missal that are a bit nicer and a bit more melodic.

If that is what thy had done at my parish, using the chant setting during Lent, then transitioning to a more upbeat setting, I would not be complaining. They jettisoned all of the contemporary music and the attitude toward those who liked the comtemporary music is get with the new program or go away.

 

[maryjk]

Well, if you stick with chant, you will eventually like it better, especially if you do so in an attitude of obedience to Church teaching and a feeling of continuity with the saints since the 5th century. This I know from experience.

–Jen

I disliked chant when I first heard it. I dislike chant now after hearing it, on and off, for 8 years. I am quite sure I will continue to dislike it in the future.

I will listen to it if I have to out of obedience, but there is no one saying that to be Catholic I have to like it.

If I had to listen to it for every Mass, I too would find a different parish, because after listening to it for any length of time, I feel the need to strangle a cat.

 

[DiZent]

I disliked chant when I first heard it. I dislike chant now after hearing it, on and off, for 8 years. I am quite sure I will continue to dislike it in the future.

I will listen to it if I have to out of obedience, but there is no one saying that to be Catholic I have to like it.

If I had to listen to it for every Mass, I too would find a different parish, because after listening to it for any length of time, I feel the need to strangle a cat.

Exactly how I feel. The choir performs and no one sings because for most people, it is “un-singable”.

As much as I dislike the music at my current parish, we have a wonderful DRE and a great Religious Ed program that I am happy to be part of. In the past, when I encountered a dry spell, I would pray about it and wait it out. I’ve been a member of this parish for 28 years and I have seen many pastors come & go, and sometimes the associate pastor would be much better than the pastor, though we no longer have the luxury of an having associate assigned to us. Music directors also came & went, and maybe this one will leave soon

As much as I like the music at the liberal parish, I am concerned because the pastor is not in compliance and says very troubling things. They have a good DRE & a solid Religious Ed program, though.

 

[DiZent]

Exactly how I feel. The choir performs and no one sings because for most people, it is “un-singable”.

As much as I dislike the music at my current parish, we have a wonderful DRE and a great Religious Ed program that I am happy to be part of. In the past, when I encountered a dry spell, I would pray about it and wait it out. I’ve been a member of this parish for 28 years and I have seen many pastors come & go, and sometimes the associate pastor would be much better than the pastor, though we no longer have the luxury of an having associate assigned to us. Music directors also came & went, and maybe this one will leave soon

As much as I like the music at the liberal parish, I am concerned because the pastor is not in compliance and says very troubling things. They have a good DRE & a solid Religious Ed program, though.

Update on this. The music director at my current parish is moving at the end of the school year, so I can at least wait until I find out what the next one will do. As for the liberal pastor at the neighboring parish, I e-mailed him about my concerns. He suggested that I meet with him and discuss my concerns. Very different than my current pastor, who does not respond to my concerns. He also assured me that he is using the 4th Eucharistic prayer for Children, which has not yet been re-translated, and is still permissible. They do use the new translation for the Holy, Holy, Holy and for the Memorial Acclamation from the revised Mass of Glory setting, and the congregation has adapted to responding “and with your spirit” quite well.

 

[maryjk]

Update on this. The music director at my current parish is moving at the end of the school year, so I can at least wait until I find out what the next one will do. As for the liberal pastor at the neighboring parish, I e-mailed him about my concerns. He suggested that I meet with him and discuss my concerns. Very different than my current pastor, who does not respond to my concerns. He also assured me that he is using the 4th Eucharistic prayer for Children, which has not yet been re-translated, and is still permissible. They do use the new translation for the Holy, Holy, Holy and for the Memorial Acclamation from the revised Mass of Glory setting, and the congregation has adapted to responding “and with your spirit” quite well.

Sounds like good news.

 

[arkwright]

I have been unhappy at my parish for quite some time. .

This is very sad , and I sympathise with you .

Some priests when appointed to a new parish enter it like a bull in a china shop .

One wise priest who was nearing retirement said that when a priest comes new to a parish he should spend the first year observing and learning how things are in the parish , and getting to know the people . He said that he should not make any major changes within that first twelve months , unless of course something seriously wrong needs changing .

I think that is wise advice .

 

[Phemie]

Update on this. The music director at my current parish is moving at the end of the school year, so I can at least wait until I find out what the next one will do. As for the liberal pastor at the neighboring parish, I e-mailed him about my concerns. He suggested that I meet with him and discuss my concerns. Very different than my current pastor, who does not respond to my concerns. He also assured me that he is using the 4th Eucharistic prayer for Children, which has not yet been re-translated, and is still permissible. They do use the new translation for the Holy, Holy, Holy and for the Memorial Acclamation from the revised Mass of Glory setting, and the congregation has adapted to responding “and with your spirit” quite well.

Hmm, 4th Eucharistic Prayer for Children is permissible at a Mass with Children where only a few adults are in attendance. Using it at all Sunday Masses certainly doesn’t fall within that range.

 

[englishredrose]

This is very sad , and I sympathise with you .

Some priests when appointed to a new parish enter it like a bull in a china shop .

One wise priest who was nearing retirement said that when a priest comes new to a parish he should spend the first year observing and learning how things are in the parish , and getting to know the people . He said that he should not make any major changes within that first twelve months , unless of course something seriously wrong needs changing .

I think that is wise advice .

Most of our priests have done this but the guy we’ve had spent three month observing and sent out a general questionnaire and actually made a change on his very first sunday because I could see it was a different book but just thought a different version or something. We are anglican but the only anglican church in the deneary to move away from the missal on that advent sunday you all changed to the new missal. He has been very softly changing things. Just does it and most of it am by chance happy with. though discovering the new hymn book or the music score the paper is too thin to turn half the time but that isn’t his fault as such. The bigger change is in me because he has been able to hear me and gave me space I need and have grown as a result in suprising ways that nothing to do with God as such though my next chat will be. I just hope that its not just me who is saying he is a very good listener. Very good. though that is a little frustrating because he won’t tell you you’re wrong in your thinking as very good listeners won’t. He doesn’t even try to guide you into what he might think better thinking to agree with him. You are allowed your own thoughts and allowed to develop them with him. We never had that kind of priest before and it is unnerving when want to be guided and he listens very well but, you to do the work as such, mentally do the work. But I’ve learned lots.

Before you change parish, can you not approach them and share your concern in a one to one conversation away from others? It might benefit you both because he might be thinking everyone is happy enough as such if he hasn’t really heard anyone opinion.

 

[The_Curt_Jester]

I have been unhappy at my parish for quite some time. The former pastor was widely disliked, but we had several very good associate pastors during his tenure. Declining membership and financial issues led him to a reassignment as an associate at another parish. The new pastor is very conservative & he made changes. Drastic changes. The music director & DRE both quit. I was involved in the music (bell choir) and VBS, both of which were cancelled, as were the contemporary choir & the Why Catholic program. The old hymnals were replaced, and the song selections rarely included any contemporary selections or favorites (which are in the new hymnals, but not selected) Since we started the new translation of the Missal, it is worse. We use the chant settings for the Mass parts, which I learned to sing, but they are awful. I have heard beautiful settings for the new translation, but we don’t use them. This year, in order to take my focus off the fact that the music is awful (I offer it up, but that doesn’t make me like it any better), I volunteered as an assistant catechist and work with the Kindergarten Religious Ed class. We have a new (& really good) DRE, and I love doing this. The problem is I no longer attend Mass at this parish. I started attending Mass at the neighboring parish because the music there is wonderful, but the pastor there is very liberal and not in compliance. He has not implemented much of the new translation, but he is very down to earth. He says whatever he thinks, and sometimes it is off the wall. Many others from my parish have already transferred to this neighboring parish, and some members of my husband’s family also attend there. So, what to do? Stay with the Religious Ed program at my current parish, but attend Mass elsewhere (because I am really done attending Mass there until they fix the music), or transfer to the neighboring parish, where they are in need of solid teaching (to counterbalance a loving pastor who often says things that could be misconstrued).

It sounds like you got a good pastor. I wish I had one like him.

As for the story, tweak it with a couple of very minor things and it would be almost an exact match for what happened at my parish. New conservative pastor came in, old DRE quit, old music director was released. New music director came in and basically did what yours is doing now. Only thing is, I had absolutely no problems with what that new music director did because he was being very obedient to what the Church expected of him. Chant, after all, is to have pride of place (first place if the Latin is translated correctly) and so on. Of course, it kind of helped that I was the new music director!

I will say that there were people who complained about the “new” music and the lack of the “old” sentimental favorites, but the fact is, a good share of that stuff is entirely inappropriate for use during Mass, whether it’s because the music itself isn’t conducive to worship or because the words are very un-Catholic. It’s important to realize that because one likes something doesn’t make it music that should be played at Mass. There are a number of things that we music directors should take note of when selecting what to play, and sadly, many of us don’t do that and instead choose what people like. That is not the way to do a job properly. I no longer work at that church, but at the one I do, the pastor has already agreed with me that certain hymns are NOT to be played at a Catholic Mass because they are, simply put, protestant and espouse beliefs contrary to the Catholic faith. Many of these happen to be those same hymns (or songs) that so many modern-day Catholics prefer to hear.

In the case of your own situation, you have to realize that this music director (and the pastor) seem to be doing what they are supposed to be doing. You may not ever like chant, but you can’t let your emotions guide you into making a poor decision - like joining a liberal parish.

 

[DiZent]

It sounds like you got a good pastor. I wish I had one like him.

As for the story, tweak it with a couple of very minor things and it would be almost an exact match for what happened at my parish. New conservative pastor came in, old DRE quit, old music director was released. New music director came in and basically did what yours is doing now. Only thing is, I had absolutely no problems with what that new music director did because he was being very obedient to what the Church expected of him. Chant, after all, is to have pride of place (first place if the Latin is translated correctly) and so on. Of course, it kind of helped that I was the new music director!

I will say that there were people who complained about the “new” music and the lack of the “old” sentimental favorites, but the fact is, a good share of that stuff is entirely inappropriate for use during Mass, whether it’s because the music itself isn’t conducive to worship or because the words are very un-Catholic. It’s important to realize that because one likes something doesn’t make it music that should be played at Mass. There are a number of things that we music directors should take note of when selecting what to play, and sadly, many of us don’t do that and instead choose what people like. That is not the way to do a job properly. I no longer work at that church, but at the one I do, the pastor has already agreed with me that certain hymns are NOT to be played at a Catholic Mass because they are, simply put, protestant and espouse beliefs contrary to the Catholic faith. Many of these happen to be those same hymns (or songs) that so many modern-day Catholics prefer to hear.

In the case of your own situation, you have to realize that this music director (and the pastor) seem to be doing what they are supposed to be doing. You may not ever like chant, but you can’t let your emotions guide you into making a poor decision - like joining a liberal parish.

I agree about the un-Catholic lyric of a few (very few) of some of the favorites; however, most of them were based on the scriptures, and not at all contrary to the Catholic faith. Also, what is conducive to worship for one person may not be conducive at all for another. I can sing the ICEL chant setting, it is easy enough. I would not be complaining if we still had a variety. I like most traditional hymns but Grgegorian chant does not “echo in my heart” throughout the week like the revised Mass of Glory or the revised Mass of Creation. As someone else said, I do not have to like chant to be Catholic. The new music director is moving at the end of the school year, so I hope her replacement will at least bring back some variety and reserve the chant for solemn or special occasions. They don’t have to use it at every Mass. The liberal pastor is willing to meet with me to discuss my concerns. The pastor at my current parish dismisses my concerns. The attitude has been get with the program or leave. How is that helpful?

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

I just wanted to make a few comments to the OP, especially in regard to this music issue.

First off, I just want to say that I’m writing this post not to chastise you, scold you, or anything of the sort. Rather, I am writing in order that you may fairly judge your perspective on this issue and whether you are scaling your priorities well.

Now, you say that you are not a fan of Gregorian chant. Fair enough. Most people today do not have any taste for classical music or chant, and that is fine. I do not think that there is a moral imperative that we must enjoy a certain kind of music (though I think there is a case to be made that there are certain kinds of music that we should avoid). That said, we must remember that the music at Mass is not there for our enjoyment. That is not the point of the music. If that was the case, then our church fathers would tell us to just adapt our music to cultural tastes and be done with it. The fact that they have not done that, but rather have encouraged the use of Gregorian chant tells us something about this music. This is liturgical music. This is important in that it does not try to exploit our emotions as most contemporary music does (think of how music can make you feel giddy, sad, and other such emotions). This is not music befitting of a Mass because the point of the Mass is not our emotions. We are trying to lift our souls to the LORD and pray to him. In that regard, Gregorian chant is best suited for the end since the goal of that music is that very end. Now, you do not have to go and start adding Gregorian chant to your Pandora, but I just want you to recognize why exactly it is that the Vatican II documents promoted the use of Gregorian chant.

Secondly, and this is more important; it seems as though you are giving your musical tastes a higher priority than a properly celebrated liturgy. This is much more concerning to me, especially because it has been so difficult for me to find a Mass that is celebrated according to rubrics (or as Fr. Z states it, Say the Black, Do the Red). Are you going to change your parish because you find music to be more important to proper celebration of the Mass than actually following the rubrics? I will pray for you that you see the benefits of a properly celebrated liturgy and reconsider your priorities in terms of what you are looking for in a Mass.

God bless and I pray that you make the right decision.

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

The music director serves the Church and the pastor, not his own preferences. If the hymnals in your church contain material that is unfit for Catholic worship - which includes a great deal of contemporary songs - an obedient pastor would not be doing his job as head teacher of the faith if he didn’t remove them from his parish. Remember that in the United States, hymnals are printed by private companies, and many composers of contemporary hymns have publicly dissented from Church teachings. Many of them are former priests and religious. Thank God your pastor doesn’t kowtow to his employees like many others do.

 

[DiZent]

I just wanted to make a few comments to the OP, especially in regard to this music issue.

First off, I just want to say that I’m writing this post not to chastise you, scold you, or anything of the sort. Rather, I am writing in order that you may fairly judge your perspective on this issue and whether you are scaling your priorities well.

Now, you say that you are not a fan of Gregorian chant. Fair enough. Most people today do not have any taste for classical music or chant, and that is fine. I do not think that there is a moral imperative that we must enjoy a certain kind of music (though I think there is a case to be made that there are certain kinds of music that we should avoid). That said, we must remember that the music at Mass is not there for our enjoyment. That is not the point of the music. If that was the case, then our church fathers would tell us to just adapt our music to cultural tastes and be done with it. The fact that they have not done that, but rather have encouraged the use of Gregorian chant tells us something about this music. This is liturgical music. This is important in that it does not try to exploit our emotions as most contemporary music does (think of how music can make you feel giddy, sad, and other such emotions). This is not music befitting of a Mass because the point of the Mass is not our emotions. We are trying to lift our souls to the LORD and pray to him.

Gregorian chant does not lift my soul up to the Lord, though it might do that for some. It does nothing to edify my worship. And it is un-singable for most people.

In that regard, Gregorian chant is best suited for the end since the goal of that music is that very end. Now, you do not have to go and start adding Gregorian chant to your Pandora, but I just want you to recognize why exactly it is that the Vatican II documents promoted the use of Gregorian chant.

I understand the "primacy of place, but it is not a mandate. Some people really do appreciate it. I would not complain if they used it for solemn & special occasions, and used the regular hymns (traditional and contemporary) at at least one Sunday Mass

Secondly, and this is more important; it seems as though you are** giving your musical tastes a higher priority than a properly celebrated liturgy**.

If that were the case, I would have already switched

This is much more concerning to me, especially because it has been so difficult for me to find a Mass that is celebrated according to rubrics (or as Fr. Z states it, Say the Black, Do the Red). Are you going to change your parish because you find music to be more important to proper celebration of the Mass than actually following the rubrics? I will pray for you that you see the benefits of a properly celebrated liturgy and reconsider your priorities in terms of what you are looking for in a Mass.

I think the Mass can be properly celebrated without chant. At my current parish, I actually prefer the quiet Mass without music at all. I pray that the replacement for the current music director brings back various musical styles at at least one Sunday Mass.

God bless and I pray that you make the right decision.

I live in an area with many Catholic parishes in easy driving distance. The “liberal” pastor wants to meet with me and discuss my concerns. The pastor at my current parish dismisses my concerns.

 

[DiZent]

The music director serves the Church and the pastor, not his own preferences. If the hymnals in your church contain material that is unfit for Catholic worship - **which includes a great deal of contemporary songs **- an obedient pastor would not be doing his job as head teacher of the faith if he didn’t remove them from his parish. Remember that in the United States, hymnals are printed by private companies, and many composers of contemporary hymns have publicly dissented from Church teachings. Many of them are former priests and religious. Thank God your pastor doesn’t kowtow to his employees like many others do.

Very few were removed from the “approved hymnal”. Very few were un-Catholic. Most were based on the Scripture and quite compatible with Catholic teaching. Not every song, whether traditional or contemporary, can include every element of our faith.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

What is it about contemporary music exactly that you find more satisfying? As someone who has had to listen to it at most Masses throughout his life, I don’t see in it what you see in it. I’m genuinely interested in why you like it more.

 

[maryjk]

What is it about contemporary music exactly that you find more satisfying? As someone who has had to listen to it at most Masses throughout his life, I don’t see in it what you see in it. I’m genuinely interested in why you like it more.

Everyone has different tastes. Just as I don’t see what you see in Chant, you may not see what I do in more contemporary music.

 

[smndtupidisaftr]

Everyone has different tastes. Just as I don’t see what you see in Chant, you may not see what I do in more contemporary music.

I made the point about differences in taste, and I didn’t say that there was anything wrong with it. However, I just want to know what people find in contemporary music that aids in worship. It hasn’t helped in my worship as much as it has distracted, since the music is meant to entice emotions. Furthermore, much of the music espouses questionable music and is too centered on the individual rather that our LORD. I know, I know, it’s not all contemporary music, and I would be wrong to make such a bold claim, but there is a reason that many people have a great distaste for contemporary music in Mass.