Association With Heretics?

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Danny_OC

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I posted this on the AAA Forum, but I’m not sure if it will be answered so I figured this might be a good spot for it

The world is absolutely full of vocal atheists, agnostics, etc. (heretics) today. A good friend of mine is one of them. Is it wrong for me to undertake a significant, time consuming endeavor with him, and in general spend a good amount of time with him? There is absolutely no way he could shake my faith in the least, though he would probably like to. On the one hand, Jesus did not withhold his company from the wicked of the world, but on the other hand, he surely did not pick any heretics as apostles.

Thanks.
 
well im just 15 so my wisdom is limited. but. I think that Jesus was with tax collectors and some bad people like samaritins because he could help them. He didnt walk into a bar and have a merry time with them. he taught them. he didnt participate in any activitys that were sinful. so if your trying to help this person help him. but have your limits what you do with him. or you can do the ultimate thing to do!
just ask a priest.
 
I frankly don’t think a person (Catholic) should spend a lot of time with heretics… but then, some may have a different definition of heretic… Technically, all Protestants are heretics… yet i don’t beleive we should stay away from them… unless they just refuse to listen, argue too much (argue for the sake of arguing…)

sometimes the best thing to do is pray a rosary over the person… then the Holy Spirit will work on him/her & you won’t be disturbed… Maybe you have better things to do…??

I mean, the older i get, the more i see that wasting time is a serious sin… and if someone refuses to listen… (etc) at some point, you are wasting your time…

God bless
 
I was going to say nothing is wrong with hanging out with your friend at all just because he has different beliefs. Then I got to the part where you said he would probably like to shake your faith.

Do you really feel comfortable and relaxed around someone who is intent on changing you and “shaking” you up? I would feel wary about the true agenda behind the friendship, and always on guard.
 
i wonder why he would like to shake your faith? Is it because he thinks his beliefs are superior?

Most of the time peoiple do such things out of ignorance… IIf people knew the power of the Catholic faith, they would convert.

Its as simple as that…
 
I think he would like to shake my faith just because everybody usually wants others to agree with them, despite their views. I don’t think it’s a major stated goal of his or anything (though I am positively confident that his best attempts would do nothing).

My efforts to convert him aside (let’s just pretend it isn’t one of my goals, though it is); do you think it is wrong for me to freely spend a lot of my time with him, or should I generally seek to associate, and undertake significant endeavors, with other faithful people? Thank you all very much for your responses so far.
 
Okay, so your last post clarified that it might not be an aggressive agenda on his part, but just a natural tendency.

I guess the next question is, does his differing belief system put him in a different lifestyle? For example, of two atheists I know, one I keep at a distance and one I wouldn’t mind spending time with. Because one atheist wants to do the whole goth, tat, piercing, mohawk, feminazi protesting for abortion, drink until you puke then shoot up lifestyle, while the other one is probably more Catholic than most Catholics.

So, actual theology aside, what are your friend’s morals/values?
 
what is the nature of the time you are spending with him, and why do you feel you must ask? and how much time>?
My thing is , when I am only around non catholics, I tend to find myself very isolated and lonely and alienated.
check with your emotions and make sure you are still connected to the Catholic community very much and perhaps you could handle this person.
I used to do volunteer work a lot with an athiest and I did not like the fact that the other volunteers, mostly christian and catholic, all sort of respected, well , did respect , her view,(non view) whatever you call that… anyway… we were all very respectful and asked questions, she was very sure of herself. I jsut felt it put a pall over the whole volunteer job because of her over confident, not quite militant, but her righteousness… so… overall I would prefer not to do it again if I had the choice.
what is so wrong with finally being around some like minded and highly caring people. that is what I want now.
enough negativity and acceptance and tolerance( If you knew me I think you would know what i am talking about)
Too much bending over backwards is not good for me .
that is just me. is this time togehter something you NEED to do for survival or work?
if you have not committed yet, then how about telling him you will see how it goes and if you feel drained or depressed after you are with him, then stop. If you feel uplifted, then continue on,.
 
Back in the day the Church excommunicated persons who associated with others who had been excommunicated. They assessed guilt by association and punished accordingly. Thank God they have grown out of this paranoid mind set and we can get on with living normal lives. We can and do associate and work with persons who are not Catholic (heretics) and unbelievers. There is little danger of being dragged away from your belief in the Church.

Matthew
 
Danny_OC said:
I posted this on the AAA Forum, but I’m not sure if it will be answered so I figured this might be a good spot for it

The world is absolutely full of vocal atheists, agnostics, etc. (heretics) today. A good friend of mine is one of them. Is it wrong for me to undertake a significant, time consuming endeavor with him, and in general spend a good amount of time with him? There is absolutely no way he could shake my faith in the least, though he would probably like to. On the one hand, Jesus did not withhold his company from the wicked of the world, but on the other hand, he surely did not pick any heretics as apostles.

Thanks.
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I have a similar situation with a buddy of mine who has known me long before I was converted to Christianity, then the Church. He’s actually a musician friend of mine and we used to play Ozzy and all kinds of garbage like that. My problem with him is not that he is agnostic. He does believe that God exists. He just doesn’t care enough to change his life. He has his comfortable home and car. He has said that “religion is a crutch.” I have responded, “If that is true then my crutch is infinitely stronger than your crutch.” I guess the bottom line is that he can’t seem to be shaken out of complacency and I don’t know how to respond. He is not Catholic. He is Greek Orthodox.
 
Well, we are IN the world but should not be OF the world. So it would be impractical to expect that we only associate with other believers. Furthermore, I think it’s disobedient to Christ to NOT reach out to non-believers (which of course, requires associating with them).

BUT…bear in mind the scripture passage that says, “Do not be decieved, bad company corrupts good character.” It can be found in one of the Corinthians but I don’t remember which…sorry.

I think that there is quite a bit of wisdom in this statement. Our natural inclination is to sin and disobey Christ…it is a daily struggle and it’s only by his grace that we can overcome it.

So my advice…I wouldn’t make this person your exclusive friend. Make sure you surround yourself with other believers as well. But by all means, you should be friends with this person. You may want to avoid conversations about religion (or lack of). The best witness is by example. Actually living out what you believe speaks volumes. If this person has questionable ethics and morals…you may want to limit your interaction and do it on your terms.

For instance, if this is someone who would drag you to a strip club just to prove a point, then maybe you should drive where-ever you go.

Well, peace to you friend!
 
Scott_D said:
. He does believe that God exists. He just doesn’t care enough to change his life. He has his comfortable home and car.
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His comfortable home and car, as you know, will some day “go away”… either in this life and/or in the next… when he goes to meet God… God’s word says that no one can come to Him except through Christ… If this guy had ever spent time with JEsus (in His Real Presence in the Church), he would not be so… uninterested in changing his life…
has said that “religion is a crutch.” I have responded, “If that is true then my crutch is infinitely stronger than your crutch.”
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That’s a good response. Another one is: No one is perfect, most of us are terrible sinners and therefore, to say we don’t need a “crutch” is to be in deep denial… cutting off your foot would cause you to need a crutch… and Jesus told us to do this if that foot causes us to sin… better to enter Heaven lame than to enter Hell whole…
complacency
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complacency is that lukewarm-ness that Jesus warned about…

Maybe you know all this but he doesn’t… Sometimes the best thing is just leave someone alone (as far as “preachign” goes) & pray the rosary over him… Have you tried that?
 
**“Liturgy” - as referring to Mass.

**isn’t a “liturgy” a form (collection of prayers), and doesn’t the Mass include several liturgies, so why refer to the Mass as “Liturgy”? is not the “Mass” the official term we use to describe the Holy Sacrifice?

i believe in some Eastern Catholic Churches they call it the “Divine Liturgy”? still, we Latin Rite Catholics would more correctly use “Mass”, no?
 
Danny_OC said:
I posted this on the AAA Forum, but I’m not sure if it will be answered so I figured this might be a good spot for it

The world is absolutely full of vocal atheists, agnostics, etc. (heretics) today. A good friend of mine is one of them. Is it wrong for me to undertake a significant, time consuming endeavor with him, and in general spend a good amount of time with him? There is absolutely no way he could shake my faith in the least, though he would probably like to. On the one hand, Jesus did not withhold his company from the wicked of the world, but on the other hand, he surely did not pick any heretics as apostles.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
i thought to be a heritic one has to be baptised,correct me if i’m wrong
 
My problem with heretics is a family one.
Out of us 5 kids I am the only one left who is a Catholic. My oldest brother tells me I should take from the church what I need and discard the rest and recognize that Jesus and other “ascended masters” tells us to move on. My sister goes to mass but believes in reincarnation. 2 other brothers just don’t care and they have very comfortable lives and no questions that they can’t answer. Since we don’t live near them it is easy to avoid contact. It is also sad. When it comes to this, I am not able to continue in relationship. I pray.
I asked one of my sons (26yrs old) to question his new beliefs because I just can’t go here. My son is quite good at defending the church and I’m hoping my brother can see how silly he sounds trying to defend Gnostic beliefs.
I try to console myself by remembering Jesus asking who were his Mother and brothers.
-d-
 
momv10 said:
My problem with heretics is a family one.
Out of us 5 kids I am the only one left who is a Catholic. My oldest brother tells me I should take from the church what I need and discard the rest and recognize that Jesus and other “ascended masters” tells us to move on. My sister goes to mass but believes in reincarnation. 2 other brothers just don’t care and they have very comfortable lives and no questions that they can’t answer. Since we don’t live near them it is easy to avoid contact. It is also sad. When it comes to this, I am not able to continue in relationship. I pray.
I asked one of my sons (26yrs old) to question his new beliefs because I just can’t go here. My son is quite good at defending the church and I’m hoping my brother can see how silly he sounds trying to defend Gnostic beliefs.
I try to console myself by remembering Jesus asking who were his Mother and brothers.
-d-
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It is very hard to have family members with such diametrically opposed religious views. I am in the same situation. I pray every night for their conversion and do my best to help the process.
 
My 2 cents on the matter with the OP. If at any time these people voice opposition to your faith and refuse to keep their opinions to themselves about it and you have tried to get them to understand your perspective and they refuse to listen, then it’s time to cut them off. At the same time, it’s our duty to show others the benifets of having our faith as an example for them to follow, so in a way evangalizing them in the process, just as Christ did with the outsiders.

I can have a friendship with a non believer and people that follow completely seperate religions, yet there are certain boundries they cannot cross and our dialog remains within common, typically secular interests. I do make it clear about my faith from the beginning though, and in the back of my mind, I may be the first person they discuss faith with should it peak their interests, with those occassions, I look forward to being an embasador knowing full well, if they were to take these questions to someone that cannot limit their approach, would normally drive them away, so being able to simply relate to them on their level from the past relationship allows for less reluctance for them to go that direction.
 
Brian_Millar said:
My 2 cents on the matter with the OP. If at any time these people voice opposition to your faith and refuse to keep their opinions to themselves about it and you have tried to get them to understand your perspective and they refuse to listen, then it’s time to cut them off. At the same time, it’s our duty to show others the benifets of having our faith as an example for them to follow, so in a way evangalizing them in the process, just as Christ did with the outsiders.

I can have a friendship with a non believer and people that follow completely seperate religions, yet there are certain boundries they cannot cross and our dialog remains within common, typically secular interests. I do make it clear about my faith from the beginning though, and in the back of my mind, I may be the first person they discuss faith with should it peak their interests, with those occassions, I look forward to being an embasador knowing full well, if they were to take these questions to someone that cannot limit their approach, would normally drive them away, so being able to simply relate to them on their level from the past relationship allows for less reluctance for them to go that direction.
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Do you think you should focus a lot of effort in the relationship itself with staunch atheists, etc., even when there are other believers that you come in contact with, who you could instead focus on?

I just stumbled upon this bible quote, how do we apply it to our lives?
14Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness? 15What harmony is there between Christ and Belial[a]? What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever? 16What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols?
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pigs don’t know pigs stink. 😃

crabs like to pull down other crabs who are trying to get out of a box. 😃

Jesus was strong enough to take them on, but many of us aren’t quite ready to make a pig realize they are filthy, or a crab not be brought down by others.
 
Danny_OC said:
Do you think you should focus a lot of effort in the relationship itself with staunch atheists, etc., even when there are other believers that you come in contact with, who you could instead focus on?

I just stumbled upon this bible quote, how do we apply it to our lives?
Click to expand...
I limit the amount of interaction I have with non believers, not becoming yolked to them, if that is what you are getting at. We cannot live on this planet and avoid all non believers, nor will spending time with a non believer that has no interest in conversion ever become a priority over my bretheren that are in need of help. I can only lead a horse to water, and in the end, ultimately leave it in God’s hands.
 
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